Are expensive Pre Amp's Worth it?

DenonDandy1

Hi Guys

I had a question about pre amps, specifically the ParaSound Halo JC 2.

I used to own just a Denon 4308 as everything (HT, music, etc). Today I just went to my dealer and picked up a ParaSound Halo A52. I hooked this up via the Denon's "pre outs", using the Halo for the amp, and using the Denon as a pre amp. A great improvement in sound quality. At a later date, I will be also getting the A21 for 2 channel listening as its got more "headroom".

But to my question...

Will I "hear" a Great and Giant leap improvement in sound quality if I invest into the ParaSound Halo JC 2 pre amp, instead of using the Denon 4308 as the pre amp? Im not quite sure if I would notice a difference, and for $4000 I would like to see an improvement.

If its suggested I wouldnt notice a great improvement, I will be saving up for the Dali Euphonia MS4 speakers instead.

Thanks for your help

concealer404

HUGE improvement.

I used AVRs as preamps before, and even my old Adcom GTP-400 that i sold for $90 shipped blew them away.

For $4000, you'll see an improvement. :eek:

nooshinjohn

+1...

I used a Yamaha RX-v861 as a pre after I picked up my Carver TFM-35, then a Sunfire Signature 7/400. I thought all was bliss until I scored a deal on a Sunfire TGP-5. At each step, the sonic improvement was measurable and worth every single penny.

BlueFox

If the rest of the system; source, amp, speakers, inter-connect cables, speaker wire, room, your ears, are of comparable quality then the difference should be apparent.

Hawkeye

Will your dealer let you bring it home for a few days? It is debatable whether it will be a great improvement. One would think so, but as BlueFox mentioned, it is just one of the pieces you need to be concerned with.

If you purchased the amp from the guy, he should let you try the pre in your room and make sure it sounds right to you.

Gordon

reeltrouble1

I would recommend you change your S/N to ParaDudeDan......very cool.

RT1

DenonDandy1

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I would recommend you change your S/N to ParaDudeDan......very cool.

RT1

Yeah I know. When I first joined this forum, I had made my very 1st expensive purchase regarding audio gear. Which was the Denon 4308. I was very impressed with its sound.

When trying to figure out a screen name, I though DenonDaddy, but I am hooked on ParaSound now, as they are very good equipment for such affordable prices (plus they come with the looks of something more expensive so thats an added plus)

Also, Richard from ParaSound is so helpful. He actually takes his time in answering all and any questions you are pondering about.

reeltrouble1

Parasound builds some truly hi-fi gear, a good bit of this tech trickles down and around their product lines, the JC2 is highly regarded in reviews.....some noted Parasound SQ strengths are solid bass, good musicality and build quality. Many here started with an "expensive" AVR, how far you travel into the Rabbit Hole depends upon you, but enjoy the ride and the tunes.

Enjoy the club and our many unique members, be careful though of the I-pod people, you will hear whispers not always boding to the one true audio faith midst a marketing bonanza.

RT1--Yackity Yack doing a DACk Quack????????

thsmith

I do not have your equipement but here is what I had and now have and I can tell you it was much better, Your $4000 better? Not to me but I do not have that much in all my equipment.

Denon AVR 2808 went to Adcom GFP-750 and was a very nice improvement, well worth the $750 I paid. Adcom was replaced by an entry level Anthem tube pre 1L($275 but I did add V-caps and better tubes) and over the Denon a huge improvement. Over the Adcom I will not say an improvement just different, the tubes add soul to steal a line from a couple of people here.

reeltrouble1

how silly of me.....

of course

TUBES RULE........but sand can be grand........did I just type that......

RT1

heiney9

Welcome and yes a seperate pre can make a huge difference. The cost/performance ratio only you can decide. I can think of many used pre's for less than $4K that will be just as much of an improvement.

The main thing with an audio rig is SYNERGY. Some components no matter how expensive just don;t sound their best when paired with other components. So while asking for opinions and direction is GREAT, sometimes it just takes first hand knowledge by your own experimentation to find what fits for you personally and into the rig you are assembling.

You have a great start and great starting attitude. Search the archives because there is a lot of great information in this club and don;t be afraid to ask more questions.......we all have very colorful opinions at times

H9

P.s. Tubes really do add Soul!!!!!!

steveinaz

"Huge" is a very, very subjective term. I would use the word "significant" in this case, as I have yet to hear anything make a HUGE improvement to my system...

...then again, I could be full of ****.

reeltrouble1

I suppose the weather in your neck of the woods might cause a bit of constipation steve.

RT1

Bernal

Hi
4308Ci use with Sunfire and the change was exceptional ...
Welcome to the Club

---

01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
04) OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio / DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES 12" (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)

louhamilton

I've been contemplating this as well recently. I have a Denon 3808ci that I am using for a pre/pro. Would I gain anything by moving to a $3K pre/pro? Or would I need to move to something $5K or more?

I don't want used because I want 5+ HDMI inputs. So I am very limited in used since only the newer models are coming out with this spec.

I wish I would have jumped on the Classe SSP-800 I saw on Audiogon right before Christmas for $6300, but I did not have the cash... change that... The wife would not let me spend that amount of cash at that time.

Ricardo

louhamilton wrote: »

I've been contemplating this as well recently. I have a Denon 3808ci that I am using for a pre/pro. Would I gain anything by moving to a $3K pre/pro? Or would I need to move to something $5K or more?

I don't want used because I want 5+ HDMI inputs. So I am very limited in used since only the newer models are coming out with this spec.

I wish I would have jumped on the Classe SSP-800 I saw on Audiogon right before Christmas for $6300, but I did not have the cash... change that... The wife would not let me spend that amount of cash at that time.

Probably a lot of people will jump at me here, but if it's for HT, I would not spend one more dime for a preamp. If it is for two channel in the same rig, then buy a good 2 ch preamp with HT by pass and use that for your 2 channel.

HT SQ is overrated :eek:

F1nut

Are expensive Pre Amp's Worth it?

Yes.

vc69

I was waiting for that. ^^^^:D

BlueFox

Along the same line, I have been wondering if upgrading my $1700 Cambridge-Audio 840E pre-amp to the ParaSound Halo JC 2 would be a noticeable upgrade. CA always gives great value for the dollar, so it would have to be a significant (whatever that means) improvement to justify the additional $3300. In fact, it would have to be a walk on water improvement because the ParaSound Halo JC 2 only comes in silver, and everything else in the system is black. The money part is minor compared to the aesthetics.

louhamilton

Ricardo wrote: »

Probably a lot of people will jump at me here, but if it's for HT, I would not spend one more dime for a preamp. If it is for two channel in the same rig, then buy a good 2 ch preamp with HT by pass and use that for your 2 channel.

HT SQ is overrated :eek:

My main 2-channel rig is an Apple TV with ALAC files streamed from a Mac Mini. Alternately, I have the Lexicon BD-30 which I picked up for $500.

I probably do 60-70% music and the rest TV and movies.

I don't think I have ever seen a 2-channel pre with HDMI inputs. Is there such a beast?

cienega

Just last week I replaced my HK 3485 that I used as a pre with a Vincent tube preamp and I was extremely happy. I didn't want to stop listening that night. The HK was a $300 receiver and the Vincent was $1500 new (I picked up a used one that was only 9 mo's old).

BB3

DenonDandy1 wrote: »

Hi Guys

I had a question about pre amps, specifically the ParaSound Halo JC 2.

I used to own just a Denon 4308 as everything (HT, music, etc). Today I just went to my dealer and picked up a ParaSound Halo A52. I hooked this up via the Denon's "pre outs", using the Halo for the amp, and using the Denon as a pre amp. A great improvement in sound quality. At a later date, I will be also getting the A21 for 2 channel listening as its got more "headroom".

But to my question...

Will I "hear" a Great and Giant leap improvement in sound quality if I invest into the ParaSound Halo JC 2 pre amp, instead of using the Denon 4308 as the pre amp? Im not quite sure if I would notice a difference, and for $4000 I would like to see an improvement.

If its suggested I wouldnt notice a great improvement, I will be saving up for the Dali Euphonia MS4 speakers instead.

Thanks for your help

Yes you will hear a Great and Giant leap of improvement.

That being said, we all can "lose are heads" so to speak when it comes to this Audio hobby of ours.
My point being, after you get to the level where it all sounds good to YOU then that's all that truly matters Sir. Unless of course you are worried about what everyone else thinks ?????

Just some thoughts on the matter Sir. Sit back,appreciate what you have, and enjoy the sound my friend.

Sincerely, BILL(BB3)

Sherardp

In a 2 channel rig I would say go for the dedicated pre, however in a dedicated HT rig I would say ever so slightly. Also keep in mind most AVR's are a few steps ahead of dedicated Pre's that are on the market right now. They should be catching up in performance soon, but as of now I think you will be fine using your Denon as a pre. Spend that 4k on your new Dali's and enjoy.

DenonDandy1

Sherardp wrote: »

In a 2 channel rig I would say go for the dedicated pre, however in a dedicated HT rig I would say ever so slightly. Also keep in mind most AVR's are a few steps ahead of dedicated Pre's that are on the market right now. They should be catching up in performance soon, but as of now I think you will be fine using your Denon as a pre. Spend that 4k on your new Dali's and enjoy.

Thanks Sherardp -

I guess I will just save up for some mighty Dali Euphonia MS4's. Although Im sure the pre amp section in the Denon 4308 is good, but its still medium par as here are its specs for analog/pre amp section.

Analog
Input sensitivity / Input impedance: 200 mV / 47 kΩ/kohms
Frequency response: 10 Hz ~ 100 kHz +1, –3 dB (DIRECT mode)
S/N: 102 dB (IHF–A weighted, DIRECT mode)
Distortion: 0.005 % (20 Hz ~ 20 kHz) (DIRECT mode)
Rated output: 1.2 V


The S/N in the 4308 is onlyh 102 dB which is sub par compared to the 116 S/N of the Halo JC 2. However, not sure if this really is worth it, as CD's I beleive only have a max of 93 dB S/N.

But people always say, if you want a dramatic improvement, just get better speakers as this is the most important part.

I guess im just worred about the fact the Euphonia MS4' only have 2 drivers and the Ikons 7's I have right now have 3. Im worried that the MS4's might not have as good of midrange seperation as the ikon's. But then Im thinking, how cant a $11,000 speaker not be better than the ikon's. Oh well, I just have to go listen to them at a Hi Fi Store before I make this sort of purchase.

Thanks everyone for such great insight. This hobby of mine "and ours" is so addicting. But pricey:(

Hawkeye

An 11K speaker may not sound better than what you have. I've listened to speakers up to $85K and quite a few were not all that to me. Depending on the front end, most speakers will change the presentation so synergy and personal taste becomes important.

Gordon