db6501 vs mm6501?

Marinesciguy

Hello all,
I'm usually a home theater audio person, but was hoping to get a bit of clarification regarding some Polk car audio. Up until recently I was running the db691 6x 9 speakers and corresponding 4 x 6 speakers in my car using a pioneer 5100 receiver. That car is no longer functional, and I now have a new one. I still have the 6 x 9s and the receiver, and am looking to get a pair of 6.5s for the front of the new car. Would it be worth upgrading to the mm6501s? Or, would there be a huge sound quality difference that would throw the balance way off. I'd love to go mm all around, but after buying the new car my money situation isn't what I'd like. Would it be it a good idea to go with the mm series now and then upgrade the 6 x9s later to the mm series? I will say I was pretty happy with the db series while I had it, but then again I was happy with a home theater in a box at one time also until I heard better. Still no sub plans for the car, but knowing what my sub does to the home system, I'm strongly considering getting something like an 8 or 10 inch powered bazooka tube (for easy removal when tossing the random kayaking junk in the trunk).

Any information you have would be greatly appreciated. I'm just way out of my league as far as car audio goes.
Thanks

arun1963

What you should buy:

mm6501
mm 8" or 10" sub, depending on the size of the cabin + and a small sealed box
4 channel 4x75rms amp

Things to sell:

db 4x6

Things to stay away from:

Bazooka bass tubes.

Ideally you wouldn't need rears with a sub. Try running it with only fronts and the sub. If you still need the rear fills you can run the 6x9 off the hu. Else you can add them to the sell list. What hu are you running and whats the vehicle? You would get a significant jump in sound quality with the mm series and adding a sub and amp to your sound chain.

MCCLIPSE

arun1963 wrote: »

What you should buy:

mm6501
mm 8" or 10" sub, depending on the size of the cabin + and a small sealed box
4 channel 4x75rms amp

Things to sell:

db 4x6

Things to stay away from:

Bazooka bass tubes.

Ideally you wouldn't need rears with a sub. Try running it with only fronts and the sub. If you still need the rear fills you can run the 6x9 off the hu. Else you can add them to the sell list. What hu are you running and whats the vehicle? You would get a significant jump in sound quality with the mm series and adding a sub and amp to your sound chain.

+1 I just ordered the MM 8" sub and I can't wait to hook it up. I'm running DB 6.5's right now in my single cab truck and I couldn't imagine how much better the MM coax's or comps would sound.

Marinesciguy

Thanks for the responses.

It's a 2010 Toyota matrix with my pioneer 5100 receiver. I knew the 4 x6s were out as they don't fit this model. As to the amp and dedicated sub, I was shying away from this as it is a hatchback that I'm planning on using the trunk quite a bit for. That was the thought behind the bazooka tube, just something that will help fill out the range but can easily be removed depending on what I'm doing. I was also looking at it due to the thing having its own amp.

I've never considered running with just the fronts and sub, didn't even know that was a decent sounding option.

So far it sounds like the mm are the better options. If I do end up going with the db in the back, is there a sound blending problem of any sort? It isn't quite like buying the left and right on the home theater and not worrying about the surrounds as much (or is it?).

Again, I appreciate the responses. Just way out of my league with car audio.

MCCLIPSE

it's not a huge deal to put db's in the back as they still sound very good. But they will probably have a brighter sound than the mm's. You can always fade it forward a little bit so the bulk of your power and volume will be playing through the mm's in the front. And of course, they will sound terrific with a small amp powering them.

domflane

You can find a powered sub thats not a bazooka tube, but there's plenty of low key ways to add a sub that won't interfere with your trunk space. As to mixing speakers, pu the MM's in the front on 2 channels of a 4 channel amp, bridge the other 2 to the sub and run the rear DB's off the head unit. You'll be amazed how good it sounds. Leaving the rear speakers out will not really hurt you either, and may help you save money for a better amp, sub or HU.

arun1963

Sorry about the earlier post was a bit curt. It was sent from work, which is hectic right now. Welcome to CP

Most folks here, run fronts and sub only. This is the best setup, if you're going after pure sq. But that's a small number. However, even if you're an enthusiast and don't want to get in too deep; this setup will sound better than fronts and rears. The sound will be more coherent and better balanced.

For your hatch, an 8" in a small sealed box getting about 100 watts would be good. You hear the sub louder in a hatch, than in a boot. So you don't want it too big or getting too much power. You don't want it drowning your fronts. Subs are just meant to complement the front speakers. They just play the frequency range that the fronts don't.

Running fronts and rears causes two problems. It pulls your sound stage towards the rear and it causes phase and cancellation issues. Slang, for 'makes the sound less coherent'.

Marinesciguy

Loving the advice so far. Probably going with the mm series then for the fronts. Domflane's advice seemed to be the way to go as far as the setup goes.

Of course now this opens up a whole new can of worms. Arun's advice to go with an 8" sub in a sealed box seems to be ideal, but I'm still concerned about where this and the amp would be located. I'm planning on doing a lot of putting down the seats and throwing paddles, life jackets, and such into the back. Sand, water, and assorted junk seems like it would kill anything back there (and I have a bad memory of losing a trunk cd changer to blowing sand some years back)

Are the mms able to run off a pioneer 5100? I noticed that they had a lower impedience so would this be a problem?

I also don't know anything about car subs and amps. Although it might be fun to grab the speakercraft amp and mfw-15 from the house, I'm guessing sticking this in the car wouldn't be the best idea

Final issue is the price. I figured $200 or so for the mms and another $130 for someone to install them wouldn't be that bad (with still using the pioneer 5100 and the 6 x 9 dbs). Adding on a sub, amp, and additional install though is making this look like it might be a bit painful. I did notice that craigslist had a million or so amps and subs around here, but I'm a bit leery of going for something that someone may have blown or otherwise messed up. I've bought plenty of used home theater stuff in the past so maybe I'm just being paranoid about the car audio. In the end though, the quality sound is worth every penny, just after the car I'm a bit short on pennies. Maybe going with the mm651 instead of the mm6501 might be a way to cut costs, or is that a bad idea also?

Again, thank you all for the advice.

domflane

There's nothing wrong with using MM coax, in fact, they come with outboard crossovers and have pivoting tweeters. I doubt you'll hear much of a difference SQ wise between them and the comps. And for gods sakes do the install yourself and save that money for more gear. The MM's do run at a lower impedance, but any HU can safely power them. I would really suggest the amp though, you can find a decent 4 channel in the $150-200 range. If you've never amped your doors, you'll never believe what you've been missing. That Pioneer is only 14W RMS. You'll get at least 4 times that with an amp. Look hard at Ebay, sonicelectronix has great deals on mobile audio. As for the sub, do what you have to to make it work, all you need is a good 8", so space isn't that much of an issue. Here are some ebay links to get you started.

http://cgi.ebay.com/POLK-AUDIO-MM651-6-5-2WAY-200W-MAX-MARINE-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ270512100710QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Speakers?hash=item3efbc71566

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Polk-Audio-PA200-4-320w-4-Channel-Car-Amplifier-Amp_W0QQitemZ360225674973QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Audio_Video?hash=item53df1f96dd

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Polk-Audio-MM840-8-Car-500-WATT-4-ohm-Sub-Woofer_W0QQitemZ300388686158QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Subwoofers_Enclosures?hash=item45f08f994e

Marinesciguy

Hmm... good suggestions.

I wish I could install the stuff myself, but I've never been good at working with cars. I figure it's better for me to pay and have it done right as opposed to me frying the speakers, shorting out the car, and with my luck catching the house on fire at the same time.

I started poking around craigslist within the relative vicinity and found what looks like an ideal sub/box.
http://spacecoast.craigslist.org/ele/1557858560.html

Two more questions. Is there a significant sound difference between the 651 and 6501 versions of the speakers? And, is there any performance difference between the marine certified version of a speaker and the regular (aside from when you get it wet I assume).

domflane

Where are you located? I saw that you mentioned a space coast CL listing. If you want to do the install youself, Mike (MCCLIPSE) and I are down in Port Saint Lucie and we'd be more than happy to help out a fellow Polkie. Its really simple and would save you a decent amount of cash. Let me know on this thread if you can't send a PM or I'll shoot you my email address.

Marinesciguy

I might take you up on that. I'm up in Jacksonville myself, but certainly don't mind a road trip. I'm really liking the idea of going with the mm6501s for the front, running my db651s for the back, going with an 8" sub in a sealed box for the trunk, and using a 4 channel amp for the whole mess. I had temporarily put the whole idea on hold though as the local Rolling Sound was going to charge $250 to install it. I was going to look around town and see who else could do it, but the only other place I know of offhand is DaddyOs which fried the wiring in a friends car.

domflane

Does you car have seperate tweeters in the front doors? I just looked on crutchfield and I don't think it does. So if you wand to go with the 6501's in the front, you'll have to drill out a panel in the door to mount the tweeters. If thats ok with you, then get the comps, but if you dont want to cut up your doors, I strongly suggest the 651 coaxials. The only thing you'll give up is some minor soundstaging from the tweeter not being at ear level, but thats no big deal. Is your Pioneer HU already in the car?

jayswifter

Hello Friendz ....I am new to this forum just logged in!!!!! Friendz I have got a Maruti Swift werin have gone for Polk audio set up ...Could any one clarify the difference b/w mm series and DB series....I have chosen MM6501 component ...Plz pour in your suggesions.

Marinesciguy

Ok, checked around town and there don't seem to be any great deals. Going to break down and order the mm651s instead of the 6501s as I would feel bad about drilling holes in the new car (though if this isn't a major deal let me know, or if the sound quality is that much better on comps). I'm also going to go with the pa200.4 amp and the mm840 sub as by domflanes advice. Been busy as heck around here lately and haven't had much of a chance to check the forum. I was also waiting to look around town and see what I could find out. At this point if you think this is a good setup I'll break down and order them and worry about the install once I have them (It's really getting to me listening to the stock speakers, got to at least make some progress towards improving the sound)

Marinesciguy

One more question (and again, I really appreciate all the help). Are there any other brands of amps that would be worth checking out? I've been poking at the craigslist around here and there seem to be tons of kenwood, jbl, alpine, dual, and rockford fosgate amps that people are selling. All kinds of random others also. I've always been a fan of matching speakers, but does it make any difference matching the amp as far as car audio goes? Also, is it a bad idea to go for a used amp (as in is it likely to spontaneously combust or anything?) Or, is it more like home theater where people are constantly feeling the need to upgrade to bigger and better so are always selling off their old stuff.

Thanks again

MCCLIPSE

There are all kinds of good amps but since they cost about the same or more as the Polk amps on ebay, I would just go with Polk for the amp. I've been impressed with Alpine amps and Rockfords are quite powerful and known to be good (at least they used to be). Used amps are okay but there's always some risk with that. I can attest to the MM 8" sub though, I just installed it in my truck on Monday and it rocks! It will be perfect for what you want. It's just the right amount of bass, not overpowering and quite musical. I will be ordering the MM coax's to go along with it soon. Let us know if you want myself and domflane to come up and help you with the install. We've got some pretty good experience with this stuff and might be able to help.

MCCLIPSE

DSkip wrote: »

Just stay away from dual. If I were to buy one used, I would have the wire in my car already run so that I could test it. I would check all channels to make sure there isnt a dead channel.

If it all checks out and you know the specs of the amp, if the price is right why not? That is, if a warranty isn't a big deal to you.

+1 Dual is some chintzy stuff man

Marinesciguy

All ordered. Ended up getting the mm651s, the mm840 sub, and the pa200 amp. Only things I'm missing now are the sealed box, the wiring harness for the head unit?, and wire I believe. Should all be in within a week or so.

MCCLIPSE

congrats, it's gonna sound awesome man

jayswifter

ello Friendz ....I am new to this forum just logged in!!!!! Friendz I have got a Maruti Swift werin have gone for Polk audio set up ...Could any one clarify the difference b/w mm series and DB series....I have chosen MM6501 component ...Plz pour in your suggesions.

arun1963

As a first step, start a new thread for your enquiry. Give a list of stuff and what exactly you want to know.

Marinesciguy

Hey again all,
I realized I never got around to thanking everyone for the help in putting together this setup. DSkip, arun1963, MCCLIPSE, and domflane, thanks again for your help. I'm absolutely loving the sound now.

arun1963

Marinesciguy wrote: »

I'm absolutely loving the sound now.

great to hear that. Enjoy!!