USB Sound Card

AsSiMiLaTeD

I've seen a couple mentioned, but don't know much about them. I'm looking for a decent USB sound card for my pc. This will run out to my 2 channel setup for when I want to do less critical listening.

Cost is a factor, I'll sacrifice a little sound quality to stay out of the high dollar price range.

I was looking at something like this

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1263515971&a=B001LLX6QW&sr=8-1

Any thoughts?

adam2434

Honestly, I don't know how "decent" an $18 sound card could be.

If you just need 2-ch output, you might consider an inexpensive 2-ch DAC USB DAC.

Hotaudio.com has some models under $100 that have received some good press at Head-fi.

BlueFox

I think the absolute sound or stereophile reviewed a card this month, or at least recently. I wil try to remember to check when I get home tonight.

MANSKITO

why do you want to use a USB one an internal one that uses the PCI or PCIe buss would give better results.

Creative Labs sound blaster cards are the gaming industry standard and no there not sub $20 unless there used.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102019

This is THX certified so its a good place to start.

I use it to GREAT effect with games and movies. has all the newest sound codecs for gaming and HT also works well for music.

This is pretty much as good as it gets if your budget allows.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102015

As for USB cards generally there sub par or equal to modern on board sound found on the mother board sound. (unless of course you spend some money)

The sound card you listed will not get you where you want to go.

wayne3burk

I use a SoundBlaster MP3+ USB external Device... it's good for both playback and recording (from vinyl or tape)....

There's about 3 of them on eBay (they're discontinuted) 16bit 44khz

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=mp3%2B+usb+blaster+&_cqr=true&_dmpt=Cell_Phones&_nkwusc=mp3%2B+usb+soundblaster&_rdc=2

but i swear by mine

MANSKITO

wayne3burk wrote: »

I use a SoundBlaster MP3+ USB external Device... it's good for both playback and recording (from vinyl or tape)....

There's about 3 of them on eBay (they're discontinuted) 16bit 44khz

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=mp3%2B+usb+blaster+&_cqr=true&_dmpt=Cell_Phones&_nkwusc=mp3%2B+usb+soundblaster&_rdc=2

but i swear by mine

Ya the ones i listed are 24bit 96khz and up.

Thats an ok card but Creatives newer ones blow it away also please note unless you are using USB 3.0 you will run into bandwidth bandwidth limitations(aka it will be compressed) if you try to stream the newer highest resolution sound tracks.

wayne3burk

MANSKITO wrote: »

Ya the ones i listed are 24bit 96khz and up.

Thats an ok card but Creatives newer ones blow it away also please note unless you are using USB 3.0 you will run into bandwidth bandwidth limitations(aka it will be compressed) if you try to stream the newer highest resolution sound tracks.

Yep -- the MP3+ is USB 1.0 -- i generally stream 128kb from shoutcast with mine and dont have any problems... (other than lossy compression)

eeagle

I've heard the USB Behringer UCA202 mentioned and raved about several times...even has TosLink S/PDIF Digital Optical out; any actual user thoughts?

$30

MANSKITO

eeagle wrote: »

I've heard the USB Behringer UCA202 mentioned and raved about several times...even has TosLink S/PDIF Digital Optical out; any actual user thoughts?

$30

No not actual user but i have much experience in the PC field (built over 20+ computers from the ground up) and the problem with USB sound cards is not the sound card part but the USB part. It WILL NOT sound the same as an internal. (all modern internal cards have Toslink)

If you compare say a 150+ motherboards sound to ANY USB sound card (of that price range) it will be on the same level or better as a general rule of thumb. (thats not saying much) Also thats a 16bit 48khz card so its not gonna be the best.

bigaudiofanatic

adam2434 wrote: »

Honestly, I don't know how "decent" an $18 sound card could be.

If you just need 2-ch output, you might consider an inexpensive 2-ch DAC USB DAC.

Hotaudio.com has some models under $100 that have received some good press at Head-fi.

I second the usb dac my pioneer has one built in. Once I started using that I will never go back.

MANSKITO

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

I second the usb dac my pioneer has one built in. Once I started using that I will never go back.

Hes looking for one for the PC, while a USB would work an internal card that can make use of the extra power and bandwidth that is provided by the PCI or better yet PCIe standard will far out class a USB card dollar for dollar. There is no real reason to settle for a USB device in his case.

nguyendot

MANSKITO wrote: »

Hes looking for one for the PC, while a USB would work an internal card that can make use of the extra power and bandwidth that is provided by the PCI or better yet PCIe standard will far out class a USB card dollar for dollar. There is no real reason to settle for a USB device in his case.

Sure there is. Removing the sound card from the internal chassis of the computer reduces the amount of interference that the card is exposed to. The inside of a pc is very noisy in terms of RFI. Why do you think computer cases have to generally be built as a faraday cage?

PCI and PCIe give extra bandwidth, but for what? How much bandwidth of audio are you really using. And on top of that, what type of DACs are being used on the internal sound cards you mention? The Behringer that was mentioned (i mentioned it in another thread earlier this month) comes with Burr-Brown DACs, which do affect the sound quality quite a bit. The best sound cards are external when it comes to studio production, usually Firewire. USB has more than enough bandwidth for most of the audio we do.

If you want bells and whistles, go internal. If you want simple and great sound quality, go external.

wayne3burk

wayne3burk wrote: »

I use a SoundBlaster MP3+ USB external Device... it's good for both playback and recording (from vinyl or tape)....

There's about 3 of them on eBay (they're discontinuted) 16bit 44khz

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=mp3%2B+usb+blaster+&_cqr=true&_dmpt=Cell_Phones&_nkwusc=mp3%2B+usb+soundblaster&_rdc=2

but i swear by mine

I have an extra one of these MP3+ with USB Cable and CD (software disk) -- i'll part easily with it if you're interested

nguyendot

wayne3burk wrote: »

I have an extra one of these MP3+ with USB Cable and CD (software disk) -- i'll part easily with it if you're interested

I have two of those (one since new way back when). They're awesome! It's not gonna win any audiophile awards but it gets the job done.

Or try this:http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-U-CONTROL-UCA202-USB-Audio-Interface-702540-i1154403.gc

Burr brown dacs, (not super high end, but better than generic).

MANSKITO

nguyendot wrote: »

Sure there is. Removing the sound card from the internal chassis of the computer reduces the amount of interference that the card is exposed to. The inside of a pc is very noisy in terms of RFI. Why do you think computer cases have to generally be built as a faraday cage?

PCI and PCIe give extra bandwidth, but for what? How much bandwidth of audio are you really using. And on top of that, what type of DACs are being used on the internal sound cards you mention? The Behringer that was mentioned (i mentioned it in another thread earlier this month) comes with Burr-Brown DACs, which do affect the sound quality quite a bit. The best sound cards are external when it comes to studio production, usually Firewire. USB has more than enough bandwidth for most of the audio we do.

If you want bells and whistles, go internal. If you want simple and great sound quality, go external.

Bells and whistles? you think a $30 USB card will give the same performance as a 150+ internal sound card? You are incorrect sir.

Studios use external so they can fit the larger ports onto the cards (mic ports RCA ports etc...) not because there inherently superior.

Also that is not even close to reason why PC cases are designed the way they are, the reason is 3 fold to fit the BTX or ATX format AND TO SHIELD the components from background radiation and finally to dissipate heat properly. There is actually much more background radiation outside of the PC case vs the inside.

As to bandwidth sure you might might be happy with compressed audio that comes over USB but i m sure not.

Fire wire is largely dead now that USB 3.0 is on the on the horizon.

As to DAC, the high end creative or asus cards use the best there is.

And you skated over the fact that the other USB sound cards listed have lower bit rates (16bit vs 24bit) AND lower sample rates and if you think that dose not matter you are again incorrect.

Another point of interest is USB can only supply a minimal ammount of power while PCIe can do roughly 75watts/sec and High end sound cards use damn close to that.

The price difference is not just there to the con you out of more money m8, Dollar for Dollar internal sound cards are way better then external, same holds true for graphic cards, networking cards and any other pc peripheral. (not saying you can't buy a good external but its going to coast ALOT more then a Great internal.)

nguyendot

MANSKITO wrote: »

Bells and whistles? you think a $30 USB card will give the same performance as a 150+ internal sound card? You are incorrect sir.

Studios use external so they can fit the larger ports onto the cards (mic ports RCA ports etc...) not because there inherently superior.

As to bandwidth sure you might might be happy with compressed audio that comes over USB but i m sure not.

Fire wire is largely dead now that USB 3.0 is on the on the horizon.

As to DAC, the high end creative or asus cards use the best there is.

And you skated over the fact that the other USB sound cards listed have lower bit rates (16bit vs 24bit) AND lower sample rates and if you think that dose not matter you are again incorrect.

Another point of interest is USB can only supply a minimal ammount of power while PCIe can do roughly 75watts/sec and High end sound cards use damn close to that.

I notice you ignored the part about interference from internal components. There is a reason pc cases have to be heavily shielded. And you want a card in that? What compressed sound? He's using 2 channel audio. 44.1khz. That's well under the 12mbit limit of even USB1.

And dead? Go visit the local pro audio store. It's majority firewire. Firewire has inherently lower latency that is critical to audio (jitter).

What DACs do they use? You just say the best there is, do you even know what they are? They're made by Cirrus Logic. Same company that made IDE controllers and cheap VGA cards.
Hmm.. Cirrus Logic DAC vs Burr-brown.

no big deal with 16 vs 24 bit... We're talking about 2 channel stereo here, which starts as 16bit for the most part.

MANSKITO

nguyendot wrote: »

I notice you ignored the part about interference from internal components. There is a reason pc cases have to be heavily shielded. And you want a card in that? What compressed sound? He's using 2 channel audio. 44.1khz. That's well under the 12mbit limit of even USB1.

And dead? Go visit the local pro audio store. It's majority firewire. Firewire has inherently lower latency that is critical to audio (jitter).

What DACs do they use? You just say the best there is, do you even know what they are? They're made by Cirrus Logic. Same company that made IDE controllers and cheap VGA cards.
Hmm.. Cirrus Logic DAC vs Burr-brown.

no big deal with 16 vs 24 bit... We're talking about 2 channel stereo here, which starts as 16bit for the most part.

by dead i ment dieing sure there still in use buy USB is has passed fire wire by. (with the introduction of USB 3.0)

Also 12Mb is not real world performance. (because there is control packets along with data being sent) Its actually less then half of that. (USB data buss is insufficient for lossless audio formats)

And speaking of jitter do you know what the latency of PCIe is? Its a **** load lower then fire wire.

yes there is some radiation produced internally by the PC, however the metal cases block more out then is created internally so its a none issue.

And finally DACS just because a company happens to make a **** product dose not mean there entire product line is ****. For example polk and PSW10.

also what of signal to noise ratio, sample rates and all the other stuff that gos into a good source for audio do none of those specs matter?

what of power? what of coast difference?

Don't take my word for it look what Stereophile chose to review an internal card it was.

(on a side note i Didn't say all external sound cards are bad i just said at the $30 dollar USB price point they are)

nguyendot

Specs are just specs. If you've been on this board for any amount of time you'd realize that.

Uh talking about blocking radiation? It's all kept INSIDE the case, in the same cavity the sound card will be in.

And as for DACs? I was referring to the models you listed, and even the highest in the x-fi line. They ALL use cirrus logic DACs.

Let's not forget you're comparing an external $30 card with Burr Brown DACs to a $160 card with generic DACs.

If you want to be in that price range try this:
http://www.mavaudio.com/base/product/tube_magic_d1/

Also as for power, you're talking about a PCIe x1 card, i highly doubt it will ever pull anything close to 75w. @ 1.5v at that (112amps). The only reason these cards pull so much is because they have to process surround sound at high bitrates. He's going to be doing 2 channels, which means no high-bit multichannel.

wayne3burk

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

I've seen a couple mentioned, but don't know much about them. I'm looking for a decent USB sound card for my pc. This will run out to my 2 channel setup for when I want to do less critical listening.

Cost is a factor, I'll sacrifice a little sound quality to stay out of the high dollar price range.

I was looking at something like this

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1263515971&a=B001LLX6QW&sr=8-1

Any thoughts?

If you look at the original post .... the poster inquired about USB Sound out ... not an internal PCI sound board

I suppose if he wants to install in internal PCI card there are plenty of options to choose from. etc etc etc

MANSKITO

nguyendot wrote: »

Specs are just specs. If you've been on this board for any amount of time you'd realize that.

Uh talking about blocking radiation? It's all kept INSIDE the case, in the same cavity the sound card will be in.

And as for DACs? I was referring to the models you listed, and even the highest in the x-fi line. They ALL use cirrus logic DACs.

Let's not forget you're comparing an external $30 card with Burr Brown DACs to a $160 card with generic DACs.

If you want to be in that price range try this:
http://www.mavaudio.com/base/product/tube_magic_d1/

Also as for power, you're talking about a PCIe x1 card, i highly doubt it will ever pull anything close to 75w. @ 1.5v at that (112amps). The only reason these cards pull so much is because they have to process surround sound at high bitrates. He's going to be doing 2 channels, which means no high-bit multichannel.

while its true that it blocks it from coming in and keeps what is produced in as well, what is blocked and what is keep inside (its not a closed system many holes for air flow/ports for power and data etc.) is pretty much a wash. its a none issue.

sure specs don't matter to a limited extent because companies tend doctor up the specs to make there products look good. I understand that how ever in this case a 30 dollar internal sound card will beat a 30 dollar external sound card in real world specs. The reason i posted the creative is because its a card that I'm happy with and is an standard for HTPC and Gaming pcs.

My argument is dollar for dollar, my recommendation is from personal experience in HT.

Yes i realize is going for stereo sound but the X-Fis are a card that can do it all.

that link you posted, thats not a sound card per say its just a converter but it sure is nice. Would be great in an instance where your DAC sucked but it can do no processing of its own. However I think i might pick one up lol.
The DAC on that thing combine with the Processing of my X-fi, sounds like a win win.

MANSKITO

wayne3burk wrote: »

If you look at the original post .... the poster inquired about USB Sound out ... not an internal PCI sound board

I suppose if he wants to install in internal PCI card there are plenty of options to choose from. etc etc etc

this is true, was just giving personal recommendation to go internal.

nguyendot

It's an external USB dac - that's pretty much all external sound cards are.

MANSKITO

nguyendot wrote: »

It's an external USB dac - that's pretty much all external sound cards are.

lol well the processing/bit rates of external sound cards are worse then internal but the DAC on externals is better would you agree on that?

So a high end internal combined with a stand alone DAC would produce best results.

Also if your using the toslink the DAC dose not matter (what i am doing) the DAC in my AVR is what matters.

nguyendot

I guess, it all depends on how much you want to spend. I guess we should ask, assimilated, how much are you wanting to spend? I realize low-priced is different for many people.

billbillw

I'd go with one of the pro audio units. E-mu or M-audio come to mind. Audiophile USB from M-audio; 0202 USB from E-mu. From what I've seen, Emu has better driver support for the newer OS.

Use ASIO drivers and you will be surprised at how good it sounds (w/ good source material, ie: lossless format)

adam2434

Assuming the OP only needs 2-ch analog output (and not full sound card I/O capabilities), I still think a 2-ch USB DAC is the simplest and best bang-for-the-buck option, given that the all of the cost/design of these units is going towards the single goal of 2-ch D/A conversion and output.

Just my 2 cents.

AsSiMiLaTeD

adam, so with a USB DAC what's doing the actual sound processing? Is it the software that I'd be installing on my PC?

So I assume I install the software, and that software does the sound processing and then sends it out through the USB to this DAC?

If I understand that correctly I think this is exactly what I'm looking for, and the ones on hotaudio are reasonably priced.

nguyendot

There really isn't much processing (outside the dac), it works exactly the same as an outboard DAC that you guys use with your cd players. I'd recommend an outboard DAC as well, usb.

adam2434

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

adam, so with a USB DAC what's doing the actual sound processing? Is it the software that I'd be installing on my PC?

So I assume I install the software, and that software does the sound processing and then sends it out through the USB to this DAC?

If I understand that correctly I think this is exactly what I'm looking for, and the ones on hotaudio are reasonably priced.

Generally USB DACs are plug and play, install their own drivers, and show up as sound output devices in the control panel and can sometimes also be selected as the output device in the media player software (such as Foobar, or Winamp etc.)

Here’s a quick tutorial I put together for a friend a while back.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82743&highlight=tutorial

nguyendot

Thats an awesome write up. I wish there was one for VLC/MPC + SPDIF output for all the different codecs like this. Some movies work, some don't. I hate having to hunt for the right settings when different movies use different codecs.

AsSiMiLaTeD

So if I install one of these will it only serve as the sound device for Winamp? What about other Windows sounds, stuff like YouTube videos and all that?