How much power needed to adequately run A series

Vankor

What wattage receiver is good to adequately run the RTi A5's, A7's, or A9's? My Yamaha RX-V861 is only putting out 105 watts/channel, but how much is necessary to feed these relatively power hungry speakers? My listening is a lot of music and movies and video games, an equal mix of all.

wutadumsn23

Don't know if there is a "magic" number or not, but I would suggest looking at around the 200W area, just a number not a requirement. Your AVR is rated at 105W per channel, but keep in mind that is for only 2 channels driven, and will drop off considerably from there the more channels you add. Whether it is a 100W or 1000W external amp, you will only damage the speaker if you get too carried away with the volume knob. More speakers are damaged by underpowering a speaker than overpowering. The RTiA series can be powerhungru, but will operate at pretty much any power level. They will come alive after getting some real power so look into external amps from Adcom, Rotel, Sunfire and Emotiva, just to name a few. Looking at the specs for your AVR, it looks like you have pre-outs on that model, so you should be good to go on adding an external amp to bring those speakers to life. Hope this helps, and welcome to Club Polk.

-Jeff

tonyb

That Yammie probably drops to around 50 watts/channel, with all channels driven. If you were just going 2 channel, you might be ok with the A5"s, other than that, make sure your receiver has analog outputs to add an amp.

Vankor

Ok, I'll admit I'm a total newb and have no idea how to hook up an amp to a receiver. Do you basically send the signal to the amp (from the pre-outs on the receiver) and then the amp sends the signal current to the specified speakers? So if I'm right, the receiver is still powering the other (center and surround) speakers, but the amp would power the RTi's?

gtu2004

Vankor wrote: »

Ok, I'll admit I'm a total newb and have no idea how to hook up an amp to a receiver. Do you basically send the signal to the amp (from the pre-outs on the receiver) and then the amp sends the signal current to the specified speakers? So if I'm right, the receiver is still powering the other (center and surround) speakers, but the amp would power the RTi's?

correcto. receiver sends the signal and amp sends the current along with signal it gets from the receiver.

Eric W

Depends on how loud you want the system to play. Typically 100 watts per channel or so is enough to satisfy most listeners unless you really like to play it loud, have an exceptionally large room, or have a high amount of background noise to overcome (e.g., parties or machinery).

The RTi A series (especially the larger ones) may seem like a difficult load to drive because of their multiple drivers and imposing cabinet but they're not that bad. They are not low impedance, low sensitivity speakers like others out there (such as LSi).

madnod

i recomand putting amps that are 3/4 to full rating of speakers, it's not about the loudness it's about deliverying enough clean power to the speaker when needed, and AVRs can't do this with RTI As.

Eric W

madnod wrote: »

i recomand putting amps that are 3/4 to full rating of speakers, it's not about the loudness it's about deliverying enough clean power to the speaker when needed, and AVRs can't do this with RTI As.

It is certainly about loudness, the more wattage put into a speaker = the louder the speaker plays. Like most things in audio, the answer is, it depends. If the original poster lives in an apartment or condo and cannot play the system without his neighbors complaining, then having a 200 watt amplifier certainly won't hurt anything but is not necessary if he can only play the system at lower volumes. But on the other hand, if he likes to crank the system or throw loud parties then yes the more power will be required.

Yes, a seperate amplifier with good current capability will usually provide better dynamics but not all users will notice the difference nor care to spend the extra money or space on an outboard amp.

wutadumsn23

Vankor wrote: »

Ok, I'll admit I'm a total newb and have no idea how to hook up an amp to a receiver. Do you basically send the signal to the amp (from the pre-outs on the receiver) and then the amp sends the signal current to the specified speakers? So if I'm right, the receiver is still powering the other (center and surround) speakers, but the amp would power the RTi's?

Yup, you got it. Depending on how many channels the amp has is how many channels it will drive. If you have 5.1, get a 5 channel amp and you are covered. Or you can get a 3 channel amp and have it power your front 3, and the AVR cover the surrounds. These are usually the two most popular options.

-Jeff

Vankor

Ok, so the dork at the store said I would need a pre/amp AND an amp to go from the receiver to add more power to the speakers. Is this true? What is a Pre/amp for anyway?

NotaSuv

Dork at the store?
if given the same advice here what would we be?
there are many ways to go and everyone has a different opinion, in the end if it sounds good to you go with it, if you cant hear the difference between a receiver vs sep amp then save the $$$. There are some nice receivers out there and lots of great deals if used works for ya.I have gone from a receiver to all seperates to now a amp for my mains and the receiver for all the other channels,ic's and cables play a role in the big picture..best to read all you as opinions vary greatly....if possible listen first....good luck, the journey is a fun one...

google is your friend, as is the search feature
days and days of good reading and info

Vankor

NotaSuv wrote: »

Dork at the store?
if given the same advice here what would we be?

google is your friend, as is the search feature
days and days of good reading and info

No offense, he just was not helpful and basically dismissed me and didn't bother with any real customer service.

nooshinjohn

Vankor wrote: »

What wattage receiver is good to adequately run the RTi A5's, A7's, or A9's? My Yamaha RX-V861 is only putting out 105 watts/channel, but how much is necessary to feed these relatively power hungry speakers? My listening is a lot of music and movies and video games, an equal mix of all.

I ran this Reciever as well... I found it to be adequate for most situations and the power output was pretty fair as well. My suggestion would be to use an external amp to drive your mains and thet the Yammy do the rest. Any amp in the 200wpc range will be enough to make a great improvement.

nooshinjohn

Vankor wrote: »

Ok, so the dork at the store said I would need a pre/amp AND an amp to go from the receiver to add more power to the speakers. Is this true? What is a Pre/amp for anyway?

the Yamaha has pre-outs for all channels so no preamp is needed.

lmacmil

Vankor wrote: »

What wattage receiver is good to adequately run the RTi A5's, A7's, or A9's? My Yamaha RX-V861 is only putting out 105 watts/channel, but how much is necessary to feed these relatively power hungry speakers? My listening is a lot of music and movies and video games, an equal mix of all.

Are you able to play it as loud as you would like without distortion or harshness? If so, then you have enough power.

All 3 of these are pretty efficient (89-90db at 1 watt, 1 meter.) Unless you have a very large room, my guess is that your Yamaha will be fine. Of course, if money is no object, then go ahead and buy another amp to drive the fronts. It may not make your HT experience any better, but it certainly can't make it worse.

nooshinjohn

lmacmil wrote: »

Of course, if money is no object, then go ahead and buy another amp to drive the fronts. It may not make your HT experience any better, but it certainly can't make it worse.

It will make the home theater experience MUCH better, but where the improvement is more dramatic is with two channel audio. I had stopped listening to music alltogether until I started down the rabbit hole with a Carver TFM-35 on my mains. Now I run two Sunfires and a Sunfire TGP-5.

tonyb

No such thing "as loud as you want without distortion.. " Everything has it's limits.

The receiver would be ok if you could control yourself on that pesky volume control. You like it loud, throw parties, then get an amp.

lmacmil

tonyb wrote: »

No such thing "as loud as you want without distortion.. "

Sure there is. As loud as you want doesn't mean as loud as it will go. Maybe as loud as he wants is 75db. I'm sure his receiver will make 75db volume with any of those speakers.

lmacmil

nooshinjohn wrote: »

It will make the home theater experience MUCH better, but where the improvement is more dramatic is with two channel audio.

The problem with all these internet forums, no matter what the topic, is that people state their opinion as fact. If the OP doesn't want to recreate theater level volumes, then his receiver may be perfectly adequate and more power isn't going to make it better to him. That's my opinion with which you are entitled to disagree.

gp4jesus

wutadumsn23 wrote: »

Yup, you got it. Depending on how many channels the amp has is how many channels it will drive. If you have 5.1, get a 5 channel amp and you are covered. Or you can get a 3 channel amp and have it power your front 3, and the AVR cover the surrounds. These are usually the two most popular options.

-Jeff

Some of the stuff from this thread should help you

tony

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94622

gp4jesus

Eric Wong wrote: »

Depends on how loud you want the system to play. Typically 100 watts per channel or so is enough to satisfy most listeners unless you really like to play it loud, have an exceptionally large room, or have a high amount of background noise to overcome (e.g., parties or machinery).

The RTi A series (especially the larger ones) may seem like a difficult load to drive because of their multiple drivers and imposing cabinet but they're not that bad. They are not low impedance, low sensitivity speakers like others out there (such as LSi).

I agree REAL BIG: more drivers, more complex load. I think what Eric alludes to-not all watts are created equal. A high current amp, especially one stable below 4 ohms, all channels driven, can sound much sweeter* than one that only boasts big numbers into 8 ohms.
* into complex loads

On another note: 3 channel amps* can give the LCR awesome sound stage and pack a punch!
* or driven by the same brand

Fongolio

Eric Wong wrote: »

It is certainly about loudness, the more wattage put into a speaker = the louder the speaker plays.

Yes, a seperate amplifier with good current capability will usually provide better dynamics but not all users will notice the difference nor care to spend the extra money or space on an outboard amp.

I completely disagree with the first statement and partially agree to the last. When I was using my RTiA7's for fronts I had a Pioneer Elite AVR that put out a pretty good 110 wpc. I live in an apartment and can't crank loud but the speakers were lacking bass. When I put them on the Carver TFM-25 (225 rms) they came alive AT ALL VOLUMES. Much deeper tighter bass even at very low volumes. The dynamics were far better. It was like the speakers were sleeping with the Pioneer. And I think most (maybe not all) people would clearly hear the difference. The Pioneer would play loud and relatively undistorted but with the Carver the speakers totally shine at all volumes so no it is not all about loudness.

tonyb

I think Eric needs to get his hands on a good tube amp. Sound quality at all levels is what most seek.

motobman

LOL, you guys are awesome, I think you really gave the original poster (and myself) good, quality advice.
I too have a Yamaha RX-V1900 with 130w powering my new RTI A9's (yes I probably should have got the A7's but what the hell...) SO, like I said in my last reply on another post, I 95% of the time use 2-channel mode on the Yammie powering only the A9's and DSW400 sub for music only. Thinking about a 2-channel adcom... Would that work the best if only listening to loud music in a small house living room???

motobman

Yah, with the AVR, I immediately noticed you really have to turn it up to enjoy the RTI A9's.......

lmacmil

gp4jesus wrote: »

I agree REAL BIG: more drivers, more complex load. I think what Eric alludes to-not all watts are created equal. A high current amp, especially one stable below 4 ohms, all channels driven, can sound much sweeter* than one that only boasts big numbers into 8 ohms.

Actually, a watt is a watt. It's the rating methodology that varies which adds to confusion. Several companies, like Yamaha, are now rating their amps at 1khz only instead of 20-20kz. Anyone who has ever seen a power vs frequency curve knows that power generally peaks about 1khz. So the Yamaha V665 rated at 90wpc at 1khz is quite a bit less powerful than the V663 rated at 95wpc from 20-20khz, i.e., across the entire musical spectrum.

gp4jesus

lmacmil wrote: »

Actually, a watt is a watt. It's the rating methodology that varies which adds to confusion. Several companies, like Yamaha, are now rating their amps at 1khz only instead of 20-20kz. Anyone who has ever seen a power vs frequency curve knows that power generally peaks about 1khz. So the Yamaha V665 rated at 90wpc at 1khz is quite a bit less powerful than the V663 rated at 95wpc from 20-20khz, i.e., across the entire musical spectrum.

You put it well a different way. Its easiest @ 1Khz. At the extremes is what separates "the men from the boys." I won't argue most receivers have good processors/decoding. As some have said at those price points something's gotta give.

Rotel rates it's receiver power sections the same way it's separates. You can expect the same performance from, say 100W X 5/6/7, as one of their SSPs and comparably rated external power amps.

BTW what's V663?

gp4jesus

I need to slow down, read more carefully. I take it a V663 is a more potent Yammie HT receiver?

sTiLlLeArNiNg

Ran my a7's & a9's off my Yammie for a while and they sounded OK but the difference was night/day when i switched to external amplification

My AVR is pretty decent i think and provided a smooth, natural sound but now i would never have it any other way! The "lower" end Yammie AVR's sound a lil' lacking IMHO But that's why they have preout's!