New Amp! Carver TFM 35x needs work.

saabracer23
saabracer23 Posts: 43
edited February 2010 in Electronics
Hey all, I traded my dad my yamaha receiver for his carver amp since he wants to try a surround setup and I like two channel listening. Plus I wanted something alot more powerful for my SDA 2's. Well I ended up with his Carver TFM 35x. Cosmetically it's beautiful. Sonically not so much, only one channel works. We knew this going into the trade and he wants to help me with fixing it.

His suggestion is spending $200 to have Carver completely go over and rebuild the amp (fix anything wrong with it), bring it to their current standards, plus supposedly it gets signed by Bob Carver. I know the signature lowers the harmonic distortion and adds a few watts of juice, but I thought I would get some ideas from you guys.

Is there anywhere else that you know of to send it? I would like to keep it around the $200 mark, a little more if necessary. Is there anyone that will do what carver does, plus be open to mods to make it in ways better?

Any suggestion is helpful!

Thanks,
Dan
Post edited by saabracer23 on
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Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,029
    edited January 2010
    FYI....Rita's flat rate is now $350.00. Rolland at Hi-Tech Audio (http://www.carveraudiorepair.com) is about $300.00.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited January 2010
    What Jesse said. Either would serve you and your amp well.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
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  • saabracer23
    saabracer23 Posts: 43
    edited January 2010
    Thanks guys, I decided to go with Rolland at Hi tech since he lives about a half hour from me. So for $300 he will completely rebuild the amp (replace all of the caps and resistors), bring it to factory spec, and right now he is having a special. Whoever has the complete rebuild done, he will do the bypass mod for free. Is this the negative feedback mod? What does this mod do exactly?

    Thanks
    Dan
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,029
    edited January 2010
    If you don't know what the tech is doing, ask him to explain it. It may not be something you want to have done.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • saabracer23
    saabracer23 Posts: 43
    edited January 2010
    I did ask, but over a short conversation over the phone I didn't really get it. I know there are people on this forum who have had mods done to their Carver amp by Rolland so I was just hoping they could chime in and let me know.

    Thanks
    Dan
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,029
    edited January 2010
    Oki doki then....

    Bypassing means that he's going to parallel small value, high quality film caps to the exsisting electrolytic types, which should add a bit of speed to the pace. It is not a negative feedback mod.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited January 2010
    Jesse,

    What would be the advantage to that mod be? I am tempted to have my TFM35x rebuilt but I fear I would never recoup my initial investment plus the rebuild. Plus, I would still just have a mid-fi amp when what I really want is something special.

    Thoughts?
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,029
    edited January 2010
    Kevin, as stated it should add a bit of speed to the pace.
    I fear I would never recoup my initial investment plus the rebuild.

    You won't. One should not look at audio gear as an investment, it's not and one never gets their money back from mods. Mods should be done with one goal in mind, better sound.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited January 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    FYI....Rita's flat rate is now $350.00. Rolland at Hi-Tech Audio (http://www.carveraudiorepair.com) is about $300.00.

    Jacking up the price to $350 isn't going to help Rita shop to be in biz for long.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,029
    edited January 2010
    Had anything fixed in an audio repair shop lately? $350.00 is cheap.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited January 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Kevin, as stated it should add a bit of speed to the pace.



    You won't. One should not look at audio gear as an investment, it's not and one never gets their money back from mods. Mods should be done with one goal in mind, better sound.

    What Jesse said. I just sold a Caver TFM-45 that was serviced and modded by Rolland. I had over $900 in it and sold it for $600.

    Thats just the price to play, learn and move up.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited January 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Had anything fixed in an audio repair shop lately? $350.00 is cheap.

    Yup - factor in parts, time on the unit, a fair markup to make a fair profit for the service being done. Hourly wage for a good tech is not cheap - figure an average upgrade takes several hours to upack, inspect current state, do the modification, test/burn in the unit, then pack it all back up....time adds up.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited January 2010
    Yeah... and so the search continues.

    I never look at audio gear as an investment per se. But I never really intended to keep the TFM35x for long term. I have been relatively happy with it's performance, but I know there is another place I want to be. From your sparse comments, I don't think a rebuilt/modded 35 will take me there. ;)

    The money I have in it now will be easy to recoup, and someone else will be very happy to have it when I send it down the road. If they choose, they can rebuild it and still come out "ok" if it's their end-of-the line amp.

    Blah... I answered my own question. Eesh.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited January 2010
    I haven't got anything fixed by a service tech for a very long time since i can do mostly myself if I want to and I usually do it myself. I just don't like fixing the thing that requires attention. I like to fix things that will likely need service in the near future and also replaces some parts with better parts (mod). It's the advantages of able to DIY but not many people have time or resources to do that.

    Regarding the wages and the fairness of what the tech charges, I think I agree it's fairly substantial but worth every penny. A competent tech deserves a good hourly salary and it's not an easy job knowing what to do.

    But then, there are reasons of economic. Some carver Amps can be bought for less than the repairs and it's why I think Rita shop aren't going to be in biz for long unless the value of the Vintage Carver amps going up considerable and people will pay more for them on places like eBay and Agon.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,249
    edited January 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Had anything fixed in an audio repair shop lately? $350.00 is cheap.

    I have to agree. It may not be cheap but it's not out of line at all!!! I paid $105 to have a small soft start cap replaced in a pre-amp and there was a lot less work/time involved than I would guess Rita & Co. would do.

    Electronic repairs from a knowledgeable, professional repair shop are not cheap.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • saabracer23
    saabracer23 Posts: 43
    edited January 2010
    Thanks for the reply, I traded the amp for a receiver that I could have gotten 100 bucks for and now for 300 I'll have a "like new" amp with the chassis rebuild. I plan on keeping this amp for a long time so it's all good. If the mod upgrades the sound then I guess I'm in. I saw that thsmith had the negative feed mod done to his tfm 45, what would that do for my amp. Sorry for all of the q's but I would just like to get the stuff done while it's opened up. Was it worth it thsmith?

    Thanks
    Dan
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,987
    edited January 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Had anything fixed in an audio repair shop lately? $350.00 is cheap.

    I agree completely and both of these people know these amps inside and out VERY WELL. I know another person who sent it to a local tech that told them he could do it cheaper and all amp's he's ever worked on were basically the same. Well the dude found out he should of just sent it to Rita or Roland because the cheaper tech FOULED it up so bad Roland told him it was now a parts carcus.
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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited January 2010
    saabracer23 wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply, I traded the amp for a receiver that I could have gotten 100 bucks for and now for 300 I'll have a "like new" amp with the chassis rebuild. I plan on keeping this amp for a long time so it's all good. If the mod upgrades the sound then I guess I'm in. I saw that thsmith had the negative feed mod done to his tfm 45, what would that do for my amp. Sorry for all of the q's but I would just like to get the stuff done while it's opened up. Was it worth it thsmith?

    Thanks
    Dan

    All I know is it sounded great. If it is free then do it.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
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  • saabracer23
    saabracer23 Posts: 43
    edited January 2010
    thsmith wrote: »
    All I know is it sounded great. If it is free then do it.

    So to your understanding, was the bypass mod the negative feedback mod? Reason I ask is because I noticed in your for sale thread that you said you had the negative feedback mod done and on the invoice you posted all I saw was a bypass mod.

    One last question, what was the other mod you did, the IEC mod? What is that for?

    Thanks
    Dan
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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited January 2010
    saabracer23 wrote: »
    So to your understanding, was the bypass mod the negative feedback mod? Reason I ask is because I noticed in your for sale thread that you said you had the negative feedback mod done and on the invoice you posted all I saw was a bypass mod.

    One last question, what was the other mod you did, the IEC mod? What is that for?

    Thanks
    Dan

    Whatever the receipt says was done and yes I had the IEC connector installed. It allows you to use a different and upgraded power cable.

    Just give Rolland your money, he will take good care of you.:D
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
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  • snow
    snow Posts: 4,343
    edited January 2010
    Agreed that a flat $350.00 fee isnt a lot when you consider parts also. My tech charges a $75.00 per hour fee to repair things which IMHO is very reasonable, there isnt a reputable auto repair shop in town here that charges less than a $100.00 per hr and most are over that by $20.00 more at least.

    Simplex Grinell which does most of the service work on fire panels on the buildings I take care of charges $150.00 per hr and there are many other companies that charge that or more.

    Even at $75.00 per hr for my tech to break even on a flat fee of $350.00 he would have to diassemble the amp, troubleshoot it, replace the parts, and test everything to make sure it's stable within a 4 hr time period with $50.00 for parts. Thats not a lot of time.

    He tells people all the time its not worth fixing their unit because when he's done the repairs will be more than you could buy something new.

    Of course you can always take the risk that a 15-20 year old amp will work for years to come without repair on ebay for $350.00 also.



    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D
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  • Condodewd
    Condodewd Posts: 1
    edited January 2010
    It's a kick **** little amp. I just picked one up today with the PCT-6 Pre-Amp at a ST Vincent De Paul for 75.00 and all woks great but if I had to spend 250 - 300 I would

    NEWBIE
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  • Krazyz1
    Krazyz1 Posts: 256
    edited February 2010
    + 1 for Rolland @ Hi-Tech Audio
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  • cincycat13
    cincycat13 Posts: 888
    edited February 2010
    +1 for thsmith going to glass ... (happy owner of a modded TFM-45)
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