Turntable Plunge

dcarlson

I'm getting very close to buying a turntable. I want to start with something cheap and save up for a Rega P3 later this year. I'm wondering how the older Thorens turntables stack up. There's a few on Ebay that I'm thinking about bidding on TD-145, TD-160, TD-165. Any ideas on these models? Are they worth buying? I'm pretty new when it comes to turntables so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Derick.

RuSsMaN

I have limited experience with Thorens tables, they are a nice table, but what worries me more is you having one shipped to you.

I'd check you local options first, then budget tables that can be shipped from a dealer. CD players and TT's are TWO things I will not have shipped to me, unless I know the seller. Too fragile, too many things that need to stay 'aligned'.

Cheers,
Russ

dcarlson

I'm worried about shipping too but for $100-$150 I can get a vintage TT and hope for the best. There's not much in my city in regards to vinyl or turtables. I made the rounds to local hock shops with no results. Locally is out of the question unless I go new.

Derick.

Wade Spradley

Yeah, I agree, check your local pawn shops and thrift stores. You never know what will turn up. Ebay is nice for solid stuff, but be careful about anything that would be a bit fragile no matter how well it is packed. UPS and USPS, are not the most careful when it comes to packages. If you do , then make sure it is insured. Just my two cents.

bsmith15

Dcarlson:

I do not know where you are in Canada, but if you go to audiogon.com, to the left of the search bar is an options link. Click it and enter the first three numbers of your postal code in the search by zip code area. It will show all items listed on Audiogon in and around your postal code for sale. A long shot, but depending where you are you may find a TT that you could pick up. Takes the shipping problem out of the purchase.

dcarlson

Excellent, thanks.

Shipping is pretty bad. At work in the last 2 months it seems most of our computer equipment boxes have been busted. A couple pretty badly. Luckily, no damage yet. Damn Purolator.

Derick.

Tour2ma

dc,

I have purchased several AR XA's and one XB, and a couple Thorens and Duals over the past four months on ebay. Only two tables arrived with any damage (dust cover of one AR shipped USPS and dropped bearing on a Dual shipped UPS).

I have some packing instructions I'll e-mail you, if you reply to the e-mail I just sent you through the Club. Have a set for the AR's and one for Dual's (Thorens are close to Dual).

Any TT needs alignment tweaking at set up, as they should only be shipped disassembled. Obviously it therefore helps to get the instruction set with the TT.

Last tip is insist on FedEx ground. And always insure.

One of the Thorens I bought is a choice TD-160. Fellow did a great job of packing it. Will be setting it up this week and will give you a review. I own a TD-320 that I think is a damn nice TT, but have only seen a couple of these on ebay.

dcarlson

That would be excellent. I'm actually going to bid on a TD-160 today. What sort of price should I be looking at paying? The table looks like it's in really nice shape except the dust cover's hinge is busted no cracks in it though.

It seems they're going for about $100.

Derick.

dcarlson

Well, I won the bidding. Here's a link to it. I've never bought anything from Ebay before. Anyone have any tips?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3283&item=3020000918&rd=1

Tour2ma

Looks like a nice TT. Worthy of note is that the 160 copied AR's suspension isolation design. Should be very quiet. Cartridge or stylus may need replacing before you entrust your new DSOTM vinyl to it.

As for ebay, get an estimate of the shipping cost (estimate 35# and 24x18x16" box) and use the e-mail ebay sent you announcing your win to send the total you think is fair to the Seller (include insurance and throw in an extra buck or two for packaging materials).

In the e-mail ask the seller for his packing plan and state that you want to agree on the packaging before you post payment. If the Seller says he does not have a plan, offer him one from the info I sent you. I'll be happy to review his plan and help generate one more specific to the 160, if you'd like.

Good going on your win. Quite a rush wasn't it?However, we have to work on your sniping a bit... your bid was in a whole 90 seconds before the end of auction...

dcarlson

Tourma, thanks for all your help. I asked him if was going to disassemble it before shipping, we'll see. I was expecting to replace the cartridge, no big deal.

However, we have to work on your sniping a bit... your bid was in a whole 90 seconds before the end of auction...

Was that bad ebay etiquette? Whoops, I see that happen pretty often. It was actually about an hour before the end. It was pretty cool, I've been looking for a TT for a few weeks, I bid on a couple of Duals. I even won a bid but didn't meet the reserve. I'm happy about this one though.

Tour2ma

Actually I was commenting that you bid too early...

Sniping is perfectly legal. Hardly see an auction that does not involve it... at least none that I am involved in

dcarlson

Tour,

Do you have any suggestions on a cartridge that would mate well with the Thorens TD-160? I went on the Shure website the M97xE would probably be the most expensive I would go at $140. I'm still very new at this analog stuff so any suggestions would be welcomed.

Derick.

Tour2ma

dc,

For MM cartridges I've mostly been a Shure man myself, about 4 from the M91ED to the V15 typeV. But check out Grado as well. They are still going strong after many years and have a great rep.

TBH, I just am not up to date with enough current models to make a specific rec with any confidence. Suggest you check out some of the review sites to see what they might offer you. Like at
http://www.audioreview.com/defaultcrx.aspx

Also go here to shop: http://www.needledoctor.com/showcat.cfm?catnum=2&parentcatnum=0 Needle Doc has been in the retail cartridge biz forever and have the Shure you listed for $99.

Another good source is AudioAdvisor at http://www.audioadvisor.com/ . They have the Shure SG-2 stylus gauge for $20... nice little accessory to have.

dcarlson

Right on, Thanks.

Tour2ma

Bump...

dcarlson

Ya, I don't have much to say just yet. The table should be in Monday, I hope. I'll have some questions then, I'm sure.

Derick.

Tour2ma

No prob's... Are you getting a manual with the 160?

If not, e-mail me an addy and I'll mail you a copy.

dcarlson

Thanks, I don't think there's a manual but the ebay dude posted a website. Good for a bunch of Thorens stuff.

http://www.theanalogdept.com/index.html

dcarlson

Well, bedtime for me. I'll be dreaming of naked women on turtables tonight...

dcarlson

I almost forgot...on couches too.

dcarlson

Tour,

I'm expecting the Thorens tomorrow, anything I should check before plopping a record on?

Tour2ma

dc,
All moving parts should be cleaned and lubed. Manual should call out the points to attend to. Sewing machine oil works well and should be available locally. Thorens sells oil as well. All parts should move freely and free of noise, i.e., plate spin, tone arm up and down and side to side.

Manual should have all the basic set-up steps: cartridge alignment and overhang, balancing the arm after headshell and cartridge are in place, and setting the tracking force and anti-skate. The tone arm length should be factory set, so no adjustment there.

Remember that the force and anti-skate settings on the tone arm are approximations. That’s why I recommended the Shure stylus gauge as a useful extra. If you don’t have, go ¼ gram above minimum for your stylus and assume the arm is telling you the truth for now, but get one. One went on ebay tonite for $12.

Other stuff off the top of my head:
Anti-skate - a Shure test record is about the best thing going, but likely not available to you. Any good old mono recording can also be used, but stereo can work as well. Headphones help here. Check for equal sound and noise levels through both channels. Too high a setting will produce added distortion in one channel; too low will in the other. Should be able to find a point mid-way between where distortion starts in each channel that will do you (kind of like tuning in a station on an old, analog radio).
Leveling – set a 6” level on the platter and be sure you’re on bubble in all directions.
Isolation – as another member found, an open bookshelf is not a good place for a TT; the shelf accumulates sound and feeds it right back to the TT; even a good one. He used an old carpet sample to isolate his TT.

Lastly, play an old album first at very low volume. Volume down in case of a ground fault. And old album to be sure all goes smoothly. Don’t risk your new and/ or best vinyl on a first play as much as we love that special moment.

Oh, and don't do the above while watching hockey...

dcarlson

Oh, and don't do the above while watching hockey...

But it's the playoffs...

Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes.

dcarlson

Tour,

Finally, the Thorens came in. The dude shipped on friday, a full week and a half after I won the auction. Oh well, at least it's here undamaged.

Sounds good but I know it can sound so much better. I put one of my most scratched records on (just in case) and was off runnin.

I'll take it apart this weekend at give it a good cleaning.

The interconnects are original and oxidized. It has a Shure M44-7 cartridge.

My plan is to change the cabling and the cartridge. What do think?

Derick.

Tour2ma

dc,
Glad to see you're underway.
M44-7… an old puppy. Yup, replace, but keep it. Someday you might get a second headshell and use it for older vinyl.
I agree on replacing the cables. I think you are looking at standard RCA jacks under the TT…. Yes? You can do so with a TT cable or good pair of MC’s, or whatever you like. Emphasis here is on shielding since cartridge output is so very, very low. If you go with standard IC’s, you can run a third, grounding wire in parallel to the IC’s. Any light gauge wire will do.
Also look at upgrading the TT’s output jacks to gold plated. The originals may be corroded as well. Shouldn’t be difficult…

dcarlson

I'm going to open it up tonight and see what's in there. I did a search on that shure cartridge and I guess it's great for DJ scratching. That's weird.

Once I open it up and figure out where start I'll have a few more questions I'm sure.

Derick.

madmax

Congrats on the new table! Let us know how it TURNS out. Does it have a replaceable tone arm or is it a standard brand one? Just wondering.
madmax

dcarlson

Well, I took a look under the hood.

The RCAs are clipped into place sort of inline with the tonearm cables. I was very tempted to simply cut off the corroded plugs and replace. But instead I'm using my utmost patience not to. I want to replace the interconnects.

Does the wire effect the sound as much as it does for a CD player IC or will any wire do? Where should I go from here? Brands & examples maybe.

I'm also going to look for a new cart this weekend. And it all begins......

dcarlson

Congrats on the new table! Let us know how it TURNS out. Does it have a replaceable tone arm or is it a standard brand one? Just wondering.

Madmax, thanks man.

It's been a long time coming, it sounds good but I know this is only the start. I'm sure there's a possibility it's going to sound better than my Rotel CD player.

Here's a pic of the same tonearm. (not my pic)

Notice the white plastic thing in the middle. I need to know what type of interconnect to get that goes after that.

dcarlson

I forgot. I imagine I can replace the tonearm. It does come right out.

Derick.