SDA Hierarchy

Big Dawg

inspiredsports wrote: »

SL-2000's are replaced by the RDO-194.

SL-3000's (TL's) are replaced by the RDO-198.

In my humble opinion, the RDO-198 is both more revealing AND smoother at the same time, than the RDO-194.

The components in your crossover dictate which tweeter is required, and only a few models of crossover that were originally built for SL2000/RDO-194 can be modified to use the RDO-198.

What is the replacement for the SL-2500? I've been confused over which schematics I can follow to upgrade. I was under the impression that the SL-2500 could be directly replaced by the RDO-198. However, I've seen several threads where the idea of following a SL-2500 schematic as an upgrade path to using the RDO-198 has been denied.

hearingimpared

dbaldus wrote: »

How far apart do you have them?

Six feet, six inches apart.

hearingimpared

snow wrote: »

What size room is optimal?



REGARDS SNOW

I don't think there is a cut and dry answer for that one bud. I do know that for the big boys the minimum size wall that they should go on is 15' 6". This allows for the 3 feet of side space from the wall for each speaker, takes consideration of the width of each speaker, and allows the minimum of 4' between them as recommended by the manual. This by no means is ideal in that Polk recommends optimal placement should be 6' to 9' apart.

As I stated above mine are 6' 6" apart on a 19' 6" wall.

mmadden28

Check out page 3 of this User Manual for setup for the SRS 1.2/2.3. It's a link to a scanned manual that Lasareath posted in another thread. I would imagine the distances are figured similarly for the other models.

http://www.4u2me.com/polk_audio_brochures/SDASRS1-2.pdf

hearingimpared

They are all the same. The only difference is the width of the speaker cabinet itself. My original manual is for the 1.2TL, 2.3TL and CRS+ and all the positioning recommendations are the same.

snow

hearingimpared wrote: »

I don't think there is a cut and dry answer for that one bud. I do know that for the big boys the minimum size wall that they should go on is 15' 6". This allows for the 3 feet of side space from the wall for each speaker, takes consideration of the width of each speaker, and allows the minimum of 4' between them as recommended by the manual. This by no means is ideal in that Polk recommends optimal placement should be 6' to 9' apart.

As I stated above mine are 6' 6" apart on a 19' 6" wall.

Thanks.

mmadden28 wrote: »

Check out page 3 of this User Manual for setup for the SRS 1.2/2.3. It's a link to a scanned manual that Lasareath posted in another thread. I would imagine the distances are figured similarly for the other models.

http://www.4u2me.com/polk_audio_brochures/SDASRS1-2.pdf

Thanks.

It looks like a room 20 to 24 feet wide and 16 to 20 feet feet deep would be perfect and I think you could easily go larger. What is interesting to me is that unless you have your audio/video items that are normally between the speakers in a wall, to be optimal it says that the speakers should be 2" in front of anything in between them, that means they would need to be moved to the side of a couch or recliner in front of the speakers and not have a TV between them unless it is a flat panel mounted to the wall.

Obviously these were designed to be in a listening room not with a TV because they didnt have flat panels when these were made.



REGARDS SNOW

hearingimpared

snow wrote: »

Thanks.

Thanks.

It looks like a room 20 to 24 feet wide and 16 to 20 feet feet deep would be perfect and I think you could easily go larger. What is interesting to me is that unless you have your audio/video items that are normally between the speakers in a wall, to be optimal it says that the speakers should be 2" in front of anything in between them, that means they would need to be moved to the side of a couch or recliner in front of the speakers and not have a TV between them unless it is a flat panel mounted to the wall.

Obviously these were designed to be in a listening room not with a TV because they didnt have flat panels when these were made.



REGARDS SNOW

I think they were referring to full sized wall units like floor to ceiling book shelves or fireplaces that go from floor to ceiling for example. I have my rig between my 1.2 TLs and the speakers are behind the line of the front of the rack and I get the full centerfill of the SDA effect.

snow

hearingimpared wrote: »

I think they were referring to full sized wall units like floor to ceiling book shelves or fireplaces that go from floor to ceiling for example. I have my rig between my 1.2 TLs and the speakers are behind the line of the front of the rack and I get the full centerfill of the SDA effect.

Interesting I will have to experiment and see if it makes any difference at all with anything between mine or not and if so how high one can go up for example things below the level of the bottom tweeter may not have any effect. Or perhaps it would be easier just accept your word for it and move nothing



REGARDS SNOW

hearingimpared

You won't know 'till you try it!:)

snow

hearingimpared wrote: »

You won't know 'till you try it!:)

Perhaps I better not, if I do this and discover that it does have a slight positive effect then everyone here will be cutting holes in their walls to flush mount their electronics, you know how we are with tweaking

Besides it sounds like a lot of work to me :eek:



REGARDS SNOW

dorokusai

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

get caught up in the actual size?

The 2.3/tl's are not that much smaller then the 1.2/tl's, not that I am disagreeing with you I just think that one can get caught up on the size of the 2.3's as well. I my self is still caught up on the cool factor of the size of the 1.2's the difference for me is I have taken the time to mod and hotrod these bigboys and I have them sounding fantastic. The only reason I have them is they were 2 miles from my house I was'nt even looking for them I went to the guys house to look at room treatments, and I just had to take them home.:cool:



I would think that all one really needs is the 2B's or 1C's.

Yep, size. I've found that most 1.2 owners have heard little of the rest of the SDA lineup than you would expect.

snow

Well Joe I tried it and it seemed to make a difference to me allright, the SDA effect was present whether or not there was anything between them, a bit more of an echo type sound with the gear in the middle perhaps, but as soon as I moved the gear out of the middle the clarity was improved a decent amount allright. It seemed that there is a fullness a much richer more accurate sound with nothing at all between them.

Perhaps there is just enough reflection off off the gear between them to change the sound?

It didnt seem to make a lot of difference whether the items were a foot off the ground or clear to the ceiling as long as there was items between them the sound was to my ears much different.

If you want to experiment the easiest way might be to just move the speakers forward just far enough so that it clears the front edge of ther gear between rather than unhooking everything, you may lose a little bass this way because there further from the wall but it should give you a good idea of the difference that I am hearing.



REGARDS SNOW

F1nut

Bubinga99 wrote: »

I hadn't heard that, but I have heard that the ferro-fluid of the day (and this isn't just Polk, but other manufacturers as well) begins to break down and become clumpy (which affects the tweeter's response in both electrical and mechanical ways).

That's exactly what happens.




Ben, I've never heard about the plastics issue on the SL3000's, who told you that?

hearingimpared

snow wrote: »

Well Joe I tried it and it seemed to make a difference to me allright, the SDA effect was present whether or not there was anything between them, a bit more of an echo type sound with the gear in the middle perhaps, but as soon as I moved the gear out of the middle the clarity was improved a decent amount allright. It seemed that there is a fullness a much richer more accurate sound with nothing at all between them.

Perhaps there is just enough reflection off off the gear between them to change the sound?

It didnt seem to make a lot of difference whether the items were a foot off the ground or clear to the ceiling as long as there was items between them the sound was to my ears much different.

If you want to experiment the easiest way might be to just move the speakers forward just far enough so that it clears the front edge of ther gear between rather than unhooking everything, you may lose a little bass this way because there further from the wall but it should give you a good idea of the difference that I am hearing.



REGARDS SNOW

I originally had them 13" from the back wall to give the two inch clearance from the front of the rack and it was lacking in bass. Then someone, I believe Jesse, told me the rack I had wouldn't interfere so I moved them back an inch at a time doing the spiked 1.2 TL waltz until the bass sounded right. It turned out to be 8" from the back wall was perfect for the bass and that caused the speakers to be behind the front line of the rack. It didn't interfere with the imaging, centerfill, or SDA effect. Plus it gave me a larger and more forgiving sweet spot.

snow

hearingimpared wrote: »

I originally had them 13" from the back wall to give the two inch clearance from the front of the rack and it was lacking in bass. Then someone, I believe Jesse, told me the rack I had wouldn't interfere so I moved them back an inch at a time doing the spiked 1.2 TL waltz until the bass sounded right. It turned out to be 8" from the back wall was perfect for the bass and that caused the speakers to be behind the front line of the rack. It didn't interfere with the imaging, centerfill, or SDA effect. Plus it gave me a larger and more forgiving sweet spot.

Well Jesse knows his **** when it comes to these SDA's. So it looks like the 3" behind the rack isnt enough to cause the reflections for you. I believe yours are a little further apart from each other then mine are that may make a difference also, mine are 10" from the back wall currently which gives 2 1/2" in front of anything in the middle. I think it is like anything else play with it till your happy there is no right way that fits everyone. I had mine flush up against the back wall which was enough to cause the reflections off my rack I believe. I will play with them some more tommorow and try to figure out exactly where the echo starts and the full rich more natural sound goes away.



REGARDS SNOW

TroyD

I was blown away by the SRS 2's....

I think that the CRS+ and the 2B's were the real sweet spot...in terms of bang/buck. In fact, I like them better than the 1C's (albeit with limited experience)

BDT

hearingimpared

You should have heard the 1Cs sing connected to the Manley Stingray at Ted's . . . WOW.

Face

My favorite so far are 2B TL's.

MillerLiteScott

I like the single tweeter and single stereo woofer for the simplicity of a 2 way with my 2B's. As far as I can noodle through in my little brain the 2B's are a super sized 2 way with the dimensional driver providing the SDA and augmenting the bass below 150 htz. I could be wrong with my analysis.

I also don't think a larger SDA model would work as well in my size room.
Mine are only 5'-8" apart tweeter to tweeter, 6" off the back wall with a low VTI rack in between and a flat panel TV on the wall. I have just under 3' on the left side and the right side is 3' plus, open to a set of stairs. I get room filling SDA and by my account very accurate center imaging. Last night I was listening to some Jack Johnson on vinyl and the sound was enveloping me. Radiohead sounds as if there is a wall of sound while still maintaining pinpoint imaging. It is as if I am wearing headphones.

Scott

hearingimpared

Face wrote: »

My favorite so far are 2B TL's.

I would love to hear a set of those.

MillerLiteScott

Face wrote: »

My favorite so far are 2B TL's.

My favorite also and daily driver.

analog97

IMHO, there is no "best" SDA model. Every model I've heard is a stellar performer, given room size, proper placement and associated gear. I have heard the 1C, CRS, 2.3 and 1.2TL's which is a fairly good representation of the lineup. My room is 26' x 20' with a 12' ceiling on the long wall sloping down to 8'. I have 1.2 TL's on the long wall. In my experience, the 1.2 TL's really shine for me in this environment and are the "best" for me. My previous speakers were the Paradigm Reference Studio 100's and they were simply demoted to fodder after the 1.2 TL's arrived. That said, I have hundreds of hours logged listening to a friend's 1C's in a much smaller room and the sound is absolutely sublime. In his room, the 1C's compete very favorably to my rig in terms of the final arbiter, SQ in a particular environment. That said, I have logged maybe 15 hours listening to Schwarc's 2.3's in a room of middle size comaperd to the above. His 2.3's sound even better. Now, how 'bout those l'il CRS's in my 26' x 20' room? Nice, very nice, especially when using the Paradigm Reference sub (the big one). BUT, no way can they compete with the 1.2 TL's as would be expected in the large room. The 1.2 TL's really strut their stuff and fill a large room extremely well. I can sit 8' away or stand 20' back and have a fabulous soundstage and central image. That's what the 1.2TL's can do and smaller SDA speakers can not. That said, right now, using SQ as the final and only arbiter, the "best" is Schwarc's 2.3's.....by a nose.

Oh yeah, my rig is a VPI MK-IV, Denon 103/Rega RB-300/Hagerman Piccolo/Hagerman Cornet2/Hagerman Clarinet/ Polk 1.2TL's. I'm a vinyl guy, have a SACD player, but almost never listen!!

heiney9

I think I meant to post this here since we sort of were discussing room size, etc.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1243319&postcount=57

analog97

Absolutely beautiful rig, H9!! I know just how good that sounds from the picture! I tried to upload a picture as well. Let's see if it works. yeah, I know....only 1 speaker in the picture....you'll have to trust me, the twin 1.2TL is on the other side.

snow

Have either one of you Joe and Brock tried having your SDA's flush against the wall and if so what was the difference in sound with your gear in the middle?

It looks like there is roughly a foot on either side of what is in the middle of your setup Brock, how about you Joe what is the distance on either inside side of your rack?

Also did you notice any difference the higher you went up with stuff in the middle Brock?



REGARDS SNOW

hearingimpared

snow wrote: »

Have either one of you Joe and Brock tried having your SDA's flush against the wall and if so what was the difference in sound with your gear in the middle?

I tried that with the original SDA/SRS back in 1985. I believe it was recommended by Polk back then. I do remember them sounding great. I haven't tried it with the 1.2TLs though. I'm happy with their set-up and sound now.

snow wrote: »

It looks like there is roughly a foot on either side of what is in the middle of your setup Brock, how about you Joe what is the distance on either inside side of your rack?

My rack is 17" away from the inside of each speaker.

snow wrote: »

Also did you notice any difference the higher you went up with stuff in the middle Brock?

I had to add a fourth tier to my VTI rack when I purchased the Trivista making the height of the rack including the gear on top 41 1/2" high and I noticed no difference.

snow

hearingimpared wrote: »

I tried that with the original SDA/SRS back in 1985. I believe it was recommended by Polk back then. I do remember them sounding great. I haven't tried it with the 1.2TLs though. I'm happy with their set-up and sound now.



My rack is 17" away from the inside of each speaker.



I had to add a fourth tier to my VTI rack when I purchased the Trivista making the height of the rack including the gear on top 41 1/2" high and I noticed no difference.

Thanks Joe I was just curious if you or Brock had tried this and had the same issue as I did with the gear in the middle and the speakers flush against the wall.

Thanks for the info about the distance between the gear and the speakers so I can see if there is any correlation between the speakers being behind the rack and distance apart. I would like to have the speakers as close to the wall as possible so as to not lose any bass but not get the echo issue and perhaps if I move the speakers further away from the gear in the center I can move them further back.

Good to know on the height thing also.



REGARDS SNOW

stubby

A few years back, I went from one extreme to another with SDA's. I sold my 1.2TL's (divorce thingy) and tried unsuccessfully to listen to non SDA speakers. So, I snagged a pair of CRS+ from Hoosier and hoped for the best. Much to my surprise, they gave me about 80% of what the big boys delivered. What they were lacking was bass extension and dynamic range. Which should be expected, considering the number of drivers and cabinet size difference.

They were able to convey that huge, open stage and excellent depth imaging. After replacing the 2000's with RDO tweets, they went to the next level with clarity. Great pair of speakers. However, I missed the dynamic range that only a pair of SRS series speaker will deliver. Truth be told, I have not heard a pair of 1C's so I can't comment on their "range". So I bought a pair of 3.1TL's and recently, a pair of SRS2's that need a little TLC. Both have that extension and "presence" that a large speaker brings to a system.

Bottom line, I still believe any SDA speaker is better than having no SDA!

stubby

Tour2ma

Face wrote: »

My favorite so far are 2B TL's.

I give up... WTF are 2B tl's???

Face

SDA-2B with the TL(RD0-198) conversion.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26710&d=1186358580