Room Treatments

2

Comments

  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,096
    edited June 2010
    I have a question about where to place the panels. The 1st reflection point I understand, but how do you determine where to put the panels that go behind the speakers? Looking in the system showcase, I see some directly behind the speakers, and others not. Can somebody please explain?
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2010
    It's whatever works best in your room, it's going to take some experimentation.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,096
    edited June 2010
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2010
    I have a question about where to place the panels. The 1st reflection point I understand, but how do you determine where to put the panels that go behind the speakers? Looking in the system showcase, I see some directly behind the speakers, and others not. Can somebody please explain?

    Hey Bud, PM jm1 (John) he has become quite the expert on room treatments and is a fanatic about it. He just recently told me that he hasn't spent money on gear of late but has gone hog wild on room treatments as he finds it more and more astounding how it has improved and keeps improving the sound and performance of his current gear.

    I'm sure he'll bend your ear and field all of your room treatment questions and give you more advice on room treatments than you could possibly think of.
  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited June 2010
    I'd have to second talking to jm1. I a firm believer in RT's. I have 10 in my 11X24 living room. Thank the heavens for an understanding and appreciative wife! But jm1 has the hot lick on the cutting edge RT's. I've just the massive pieces but boy do they really make a difference!

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited June 2010
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    I'd have to second talking to jm1. I a firm believer in RT's. I have 10 in my 11X24 living room. Thank the heavens for an understanding and appreciative wife! But jm1 has the hot lick on the cutting edge RT's. I've just the massive pieces but boy do they really make a difference!

    Gordon

    Yeah man, he really does his homework.:)
  • ShinAce
    ShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited June 2010
    When experimenting, give it time.

    Install the panels, and listen for a few days. Once you get used to the new sound, then go ahead and move the panels around. The initial change from adding the panels to the room will swamp your senses and prevent you from tweaking properly on day one.
  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited July 2010
    sooo has anyone done room treatments for the rear of the room that "liven up the back of the room". I was told when I visited a hi fi shop that there is supposed to be a "type" of treatment that you can do to the back of a room that was an odd looking panel and that cost an arm and leg that is supposed to help "liven" up the back of the room.

    The room sounded great, however I didn't know what the name of the company was that made the treatment except that it cost way too much and wondering if anyone has had similar affects in their own DIY ones.

    Very long panel with some ridges that was about 2 ft wide about 6ft long in the middle of the back wall
  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    I'm thinking you may heard/seen a diffusor, or stretching it, an abfusor. Lots of diy on line for diffusors, but time comsuming to make.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
  • nduitch
    nduitch Posts: 316
    edited July 2010
    Here is a pic of some panels that I built a few months ago using some OC 703. The bass traps in the corners are doubled up to 4in. and the all the other panels are 2in. panels that are offset 2in. off of the wall. This was probably the biggest tweak, even more than new XO components. It is a rental property so this was really the only room I could have to myself, the basement. The room was really bad with no panels, slap echo was atrocious. The most tedious part is finishing them with burlap. The first one was terrible but soon I got in a rhythm and found a system that worked for me.
  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    I really get stoked when folks start taking the room into account.:D I've said it before but, before anyone buys wires, dacs, amps or any other piece, buy or build some quality traps for your room. By far the best bang for the buck one could ever hope for!!!

    If I took all the money I spent on gear and spent half of it on traps, I'd still be money ahead! Nice looking room nduitch!

    Gordon

    edit: Since I have to watch HGTV with the better half, try covering them with a contrasting or complimentary color fabric. Who know's, she might join you for a listening session!
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
  • nduitch
    nduitch Posts: 316
    edited July 2010
    Hawkeye wrote: »
    I really get stoked when folks start taking the room into account.:D I've said it before but, before anyone buys wires, dacs, amps or any other piece, buy or build some quality traps for your room. By far the best bang for the buck one could ever hope for!!!

    If I took all the money I spent on gear and spent half of it on traps, I'd still be money ahead! Nice looking room nduitch!

    Gordon

    Thanks, Well said Gordon. It really is a game changer. Even when my amp broke my 50 watt Yamaha receiver sounded great. I don't think one can begin to do "the tweaks" until the room is treated.

    Dutchman
  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited July 2010
    nduitch wrote: »
    Here is a pic of some panels that I built a few months ago using some OC 703. The bass traps in the corners are doubled up to 4in. and the all the other panels are 2in. panels that are offset 2in. off of the wall. This was probably the biggest tweak, even more than new XO components. It is a rental property so this was really the only room I could have to myself, the basement. The room was really bad with no panels, slap echo was atrocious. The most tedious part is finishing them with burlap. The first one was terrible but soon I got in a rhythm and found a system that worked for me.

    Nice work! That room seens like it goes on forever. What are the dimensions.
  • nduitch
    nduitch Posts: 316
    edited July 2010
    Nice work! That room seens like it goes on forever. What are the dimensions.

    Thanks. Dimensions are 12 x 20. Can't really get the speakers as wide as I liked them in my old apartment, the sound stage was much better when they were about 8 feet apart, but sound quality was not as good without the panels.
  • bsturgeon89
    bsturgeon89 Posts: 128
    edited July 2010
    nduitch wrote: »
    Here is a pic of some panels that I built a few months ago using some OC 703. The bass traps in the corners are doubled up to 4in. and the all the other panels are 2in. panels that are offset 2in. off of the wall. This was probably the biggest tweak, even more than new XO components. It is a rental property so this was really the only room I could have to myself, the basement. The room was really bad with no panels, slap echo was atrocious. The most tedious part is finishing them with burlap. The first one was terrible but soon I got in a rhythm and found a system that worked for me.

    So What did you do on the back of the panels so you could hang them off the wall a couple inches?

    I've seen people mount them flush but from what I've read having them off the wall is suppose to be better.
  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited July 2010
    Just build them with a thicker frame so there is a larger gap between the wall and insulation.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
  • bsturgeon89
    bsturgeon89 Posts: 128
    edited July 2010
    Face wrote: »
    Just build them with a thicker frame so there is a larger gap between the wall and insulation.

    Thanks.

    That was my original plan but wasnt sure if that would be suffice.
  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,310
    edited July 2010
    Wow!!! Very nice room.
    Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎

    SVS SB16 X2

    Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
    Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
    Cary DMS 800PV Network
    OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
    VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
    Jolida JD9 Fully Modified

    VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM

    MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s
  • nduitch
    nduitch Posts: 316
    edited July 2010
    So What did you do on the back of the panels so you could hang them off the wall a couple inches?

    I've seen people mount them flush but from what I've read having them off the wall is suppose to be better.

    The top part of the frame is 4 inches wide. The longer sides are 2 inch. So the 2ft part of the frame makes contact with the wall, and the 4ft part is 2in off the wall. It allows both sides of the panel to catch sound, just like the traps that split the corners.
  • Hawkeye
    Hawkeye Posts: 1,313
    edited July 2010
    I use 4X4 post holders to get them of the wall. The post holder is shaped like a U where the one leg is screwed to the wall and the trap hangs on the other leg. I use three per trap.

    Gordon
    2 Channel -
    Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
    McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
    WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
    Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8)
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,508
    edited July 2010
    McLoki wrote: »
    I just found out ATS is only about 2 hours away from me....

    Fellow RAS members Blake and Duell have ATS treatments. Good stuff, reasonable prices.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86154&highlight=acoustic
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • LessisNevermore
    LessisNevermore Posts: 1,519
    edited July 2010
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    Fellow RAS members Blake and Duell have ATS treatments. Good stuff, reasonable prices.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86154&highlight=acoustic

    Yep, I picked up in person, they helped me load up, and were very nice to deal with.
  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited July 2010
    Yep, I picked up in person, they helped me load up, and were very nice to deal with.

    How far are they from Chicago?
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,508
    edited July 2010
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
  • doctorcilantro
    doctorcilantro Posts: 2,028
    edited July 2010
    Nice work. I picked some up from a company in Tampa and I have to go pick them up. Maybe I'll take some pics, and I'll be doing some listening this weekend w/o them.

    I've got (2) 24" x 24" panels and tow 48" x 24" one of which is 4" the other is 2".

    I don't have a lot of options in this room with regard to moving speakers around and I have a lot of window surface area; hopefully the treatments help. I could do more, but WAF is getting stretched already to the max.
    For Sale 2019:
    Tortuga Audio LDR passive preamp
    Decware EL34 amp
    Allnic H-1201 phono
    Zu Union Cubes
    iFi iDSD DAC, .5m UBS, iFI Gemini cable, Oyaide Tunami XLR 1.3M, Oyaide Tunami Speaker wire 1.5M, Beyerdynamic DT1990 headphones, PS Audio P3 power center

  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited July 2010
    These guys are in most major cities and carry OC 703 and 705 in various thicknesses.

    http://www.spi-co.com/directory.html
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • frodaddy
    frodaddy Posts: 124
    edited July 2010
    I've been wanting to do this for a while, but still haven't got around to it. A couple of weekends ago I went on a road trip for tapestry's, but I couldn't find any!
    Fronts: DIY Statements from htguide.com
    Center: DIY custom Statement center from htguide.com
    Surrounds: Four DIY custom Mini Statements
    Wire: HD-14
    Receiver: Denon AVR-4806 + CI upgrade
    Amps: Dual Emotiva LPA-1's
    Sub: Infinite Baffle: 8 fiCarAudio IB315 woofers, Behringer DSP1124P EQ, Elemental Designs eQ.2, Dual EP4000 amps
    Transducers: 2 buttkicker LFE's, BK amp, EQ'd w/DSP1124p
    DVD: Toshiba HD-XA2 / PS3
    TV: Samsung 1080p 61" DLP
  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,096
    edited July 2010
    I put up a few yesterday and was very pleased with the results. Buying more are on the "to do list".
  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,310
    edited July 2010
    Mine are 2" thick and flat to the wall with good results, Should I try and put a 2" space between them and the wall?? Hummm if so I wonder what I could use.. The spacers I did try at one time when I first put them up didn't work very well and I just wanted them up so they went up flat to the wall..
    Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎

    SVS SB16 X2

    Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
    Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
    Cary DMS 800PV Network
    OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
    VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
    Jolida JD9 Fully Modified

    VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM

    MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s
  • bsturgeon89
    bsturgeon89 Posts: 128
    edited July 2010
    Mine are 2" thick and flat to the wall with good results, Should I try and put a 2" space between them and the wall?? Hummm if so I wonder what I could use.. The spacers I did try at one time when I first put them up didn't work very well and I just wanted them up so they went up flat to the wall..

    To go along with Tool's question.....

    Any tips on how to hang from a suspended grid ceiling?

    I suppose I could take screw eye hooks into the back of the panels and then use some kind of wire to hang them with. Any other ideas?