Got new speakers-got more questions

curvefan

Hey guys,
I thought I should probably start a new thread concerning the speakers I just purchased at Newegg.

Speakers were: 2 M70's - Front L-R
1 CS2 - Center
2 M 30's - Rears

I have been using a Onkyo HTIB. Rated at 1000w total power.
The receiver is a HT-R 520 rated at 130w per channel.
The sub is a 10" rated at 220w total power.
This HTIB is a 6.1 system. I have three small Onkyo speakers for the rears.

My questions: 1. Is my receiver going to be compatible to use with my new Polk speakers? Do I need to upgrade soon?

2. Any suggestions concerning the sub? It has always seemed fine with the HTIB. Should I be saving for a nicer sub?

3. I will be using the new M 30's for rears and was wondering if I should also keep the one small Onkyo rear center to keep it a 6.1 system, or should I eliminate the small Onkyo and just go with the two M 30's in the rear and make it a 5.1 system.

Thanks for listening.

zombiemusic

Your reciever will be fine. though most would say that if you were to upgrade, go with separates.

YOu didn't say the brand of the sub. But if you like the sound of the sub keep it. I just have a cheap KLH 10 inch 125 watts sub, and I love the way it sounds!

Try both suround speaker set ups. which sounds better to you. I say it you got the speakers use them.

nguyendot

Should power it fine

cnh

The Onkyo will drive that system...but in order to give the M70s more power stay in 5.1 and just use the Polks...the Onkyo HT sub is OK for now but eventually you should consider something like the DSW-600 12" Polk sub....it will give you a lot more slam and better musical performance.

The M70s can handle a lot more power...they sound much better with an Onkyo TX-SR 876 or 906 or a 1007, 3007, 5007 than they do with ANY lower end Onkyo AVR! The greater POWER helps them. They also benefit from external amps!

But for now you're fine...

cnh

McLoki

cnh wrote: »

The Onkyo will drive that system...but in order to give the M70s more power stay in 5.1 and just use the Polks...the Onkyo HT sub is OK for now but eventually you should consider something like the DSW-600 12" Polk sub....it will give you a lot more slam and better musical performance.

The M70s can handle a lot more power...they sound much better with an Onkyo TX-SR 876 or 906 or a 1007, 3007, 5007 than they do with ANY lower end Onkyo AVR! The greater POWER helps them. They also benefit from external amps!

But for now you're fine...

cnh

First time I have really heard the external amp recommendation for the monitor series... I would say most speakers can benefit from quality amplification, but in this case, I would have to say upgrade money would be better spent elsewhere....

I would say your current AVR is fine, but it is your money to spend....

I, personally, would upgrade your subwoofer, but if you are happy with the sound, that is really all that matters. Certainly no big hurry.

Listen both ways, but I would also stay with 5.1

Good Luck and welcome to Club Polk,

Michael

curvefan

Thanks guys for all the input.

I guess experimenting with different set ups is definitely the way to go.

I wasn't sure about mixing the old small Onkyo rear speaker with the two new Polk M30's. I didn't know if that would cause any type of problems.

I guess I can live with the sub for now. Maybe as you guys suggested, upgrade later on if needed.

I thought my receiver was compatible to use with the new speakers, I just wanted to get your thoughts on it.

I'm a little confused when you say the new 70's would benefit from a receiver with more power. The Onkyo receiver I'm using is rated at 135w per channel.
Isn't that enough power, or am I way off base?

Again, thanks a lot. I will probably have more questions when I get things set up. Thanks for the welcome. Hope I don't wear it out!

Knucklehead

Hi,

135w is plenty of power, however I think what the guys are saying is, using an amp to power you mains will give you much more clarity and headroom therefore making the speakers sound much better. IMO I think you should be fine for the time being. Welcome to CP. Enjoy!

David

wutadumsn23

The guys are right, you will be fine. However, keep in mind that 135W is a rating at 2 channels driven, not 5 or 7. The power drops off considerably and is probably closer to half of what it says when you have a 5 or 7 channel speaker system running. If you want to be able to add an external amp down the road you will have to upgrade your AVR since I doubt it has pre-outs for adding one. Also, if you have a Blu Ray player or are planning on getting on you will have to upgrade your AVR to one that has HDMI to rtake advantage of that. As has been stated by pretty much everyone above, for now you are fine, just stay the hell away from this forum and your wallet will be safe, lol. Good luck and welcome to Club Polk.

-Jeff

danz1906

Welcome to the Club-Congrats!

cnh

McLoki wrote: »

First time I have really heard the external amp recommendation for the monitor series... I would say most speakers can benefit from quality amplification, but in this case, I would have to say upgrade money would be better spent elsewhere....

I would say your current AVR is fine, but it is your money to spend....

I, personally, would upgrade your subwoofer, but if you are happy with the sound, that is really all that matters. Certainly no big hurry.

Listen both ways, but I would also stay with 5.1

Good Luck and welcome to Club Polk,

Michael

Just to clarify this is only a recommendation for the flagship M70s in that series...

Let's compare the TSI-500s to the Rti-A5s...I'm sure most people would consider using a power amp with Rtis?

The 500s are 45 pounds and have a recommended amplification of 20-275 watts each...the Rti-A5s are only 40 pounds and have a 20-250 watt rating..not that these numbers mean much but the Rti-A7s are only 20-300 watts which is not much more than TSI-500s that have the same rating as Monitor 70s.

So I agree with you. I have a set of TSI-300 and M70s..the TSI-300s do NOT benefit that much from a power amp...but the same is not true of the M70s or the TSI-500s....ask Ted (R1) about amplification and the 500s or better yet read his review in the reviews section for the 500s..

The 500s deserve better amps than an AVR IMO.

cnh

curvefan

wutadumsn23 wrote: »

The guys are right, you will be fine. However, keep in mind that 135W is a rating at 2 channels driven, not 5 or 7. The power drops off considerably and is probably closer to half of what it says when you have a 5 or 7 channel speaker system running. If you want to be able to add an external amp down the road you will have to upgrade your AVR since I doubt it has pre-outs for adding one. Also, if you have a Blu Ray player or are planning on getting on you will have to upgrade your AVR to one that has HDMI to rtake advantage of that. As has been stated by pretty much everyone above, for now you are fine, just stay the hell away from this forum and your wallet will be safe, lol. Good luck and welcome to Club Polk.

-Jeff

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think I'm starting to understand it.

I definitely want to get a receiver with HDMI as my current one does not have it. Nor does it have the pre outs as you stated.

You're also right about staying away from this forum!!!!

Did I mention, my wife is about ready to pull the trigger on me!!!

Thanks everyone for all your help.

This is a great place to learn. You should charge admission...............

wutadumsn23

From the looks of your sig. you are putting together a very nice HT setup. Trust me when I say you will not be dissapointed by your 70's I know I (and cnh, lol) love ours. The WAF (Wife Approval Factor) does come into play more than we would like, but my wife is starting to come around and has been "suggesting" to me that we upgrade our TV to a 70" model, but I just can't get rid of my current TV, I love it. Give her time, she will get used to what you have and will be a little more understanding in the future when the upgrade bug bites. Luckily for me I bought a fairly upgrade proof AVR, and now am working on adding an amp for now and seeing where that gets me. Glad we could help, this place is full of people who know what they are talking about, or atleast they have me convinced they do, lol.

-Jeff

nguyendot

Dude... Just try it out first and see how you like it. If you like it - then no one else's opinion counts. If you put it together and want more... come back. We'll be waiting and glad to help

jax3822

Nice set up. The monitor series info on the polk website says that it is designed to able to be efficient with modestly powered receivers. I would check to see what crossover settings are available on the Onkyo, since it was a HTIB reciever. I once had a Pioneer receiver that only crossed over at 100, 110, and 120 hz or something like that which is much to high for a larger speaker like the Monitor 70. (have em by the way). You may want to set the fronts to Large, and the rest of the speakers to small, as the 70's will give probably as much bass as a HTIB sub, especially if it is only 8 inches like most Onkyo subs. The upside of this is that 2 channel signals will send the low frequencies to you large front speakers and send the rest of the lfe signal to the speaker set to small.
I think you can run the onkyo as the surround back if you want, it is not that critical at this point of your system. Plus keep your eyes out on ebay for a loose M30 for that last piece of the puzzle.
Having said that, It is important that the center is matched with your fronts. I had a mismatched system for a while and I did notice a difference.
I also agree to enjoy your new gear, Av setups can be confusing. and Definitely upgrade that sub in the future, most HTIB subs are compromised for cost. You will hear a difference.

curvefan

jax3822,

Thanks for the great suggestions.
I will definitely check on the cross over settings on the Onkyo receiver.
The manuals that come with the speakers suggested to set the 70's to large, so I was all set to do that.
The Onkyo sub is a 10", but I am hoping to upgrade as soon as possible.
Thanks for the tip on getting a single M30 on Ebay. I thought they only sold in pairs. Can you get a single M30 that is new?

Anyhow, the speakers just came yesterday and I haven't had a chance to open all the boxes. Any tips on opening the M70 boxes. Do you cut the full length of the boxes, or simply open the tops and try to slide them out?

Thanks to all.

Cogito

curvefan wrote: »

jax3822,

Thanks for the great suggestions.
I will definitely check on the cross over settings on the Onkyo receiver.
The manuals that come with the speakers suggested to set the 70's to large, so I was all set to do that.
The Onkyo sub is a 10", but I am hoping to upgrade as soon as possible.
Thanks for the tip on getting a single M30 on Ebay. I thought they only sold in pairs. Can you get a single M30 that is new?

Anyhow, the speakers just came yesterday and I haven't had a chance to open all the boxes. Any tips on opening the M70 boxes. Do you cut the full length of the boxes, or simply open the tops and try to slide them out?

Thanks to all.

I just lay mine down on their side, cut the bottom tape on the box and bent the flaps outward. Then lift the box back upright and slide the box off. Then you can lift the speaker right out of the bottom foam piece.

BTW My initial impressions of the 70's were less than optimistic. When new, the bass extension (No useful output below 50Hz) was quite disappointing and the upper midrange would tend to muddy up at higher volumes. However, after a hundred hours or more of usage, they have really come into their own in terms of sonic quality. Bass extension seems solid to 40Hz (Test tones confirmed this) and the muddiness I experienced has MOSTLY disappeared.

I fact, I have never experienced a speaker that benefited more from "breaking in" than the 70's did.

curvefan

Cogito wrote: »

I just lay mine down on their side, cut the bottom tape on the box and bent the flaps outward. Then lift the box back upright and slide the box off. Then you can lift the speaker right out of the bottom foam piece.

BTW My initial impressions of the 70's were less than optimistic. When new, the bass extension (No useful output below 50Hz) was quite disappointing and the upper midrange would tend to muddy up at higher volumes. However, after a hundred hours or more of usage, they have really come into their own in terms of sonic quality. Bass extension seems solid to 40Hz (Test tones confirmed this) and the muddiness I experienced has MOSTLY disappeared.

I fact, I have never experienced a speaker that benefited more from "breaking in" than the 70's did.

Cogito,
Thanks for the tip on opening the M70 boxes. I guess that was a stupid question. I'm just so afraid of damaging my new babies!
I'm sure I'll ask a few more stupid questions in the future.
Glad to hear the M70's break in nicely.
Most of the reviews I read on the M70's didn't really mention a break in period. In fact most reviews were positive from the git go.
Either way, I think I made a good choice on purchasing the M70's.

Thanks again for your reply.

Cogito

curvefan wrote: »

Cogito,
Thanks for the tip on opening the M70 boxes. I guess that was a stupid question. I'm just so afraid of damaging my new babies!
I'm sure I'll ask a few more stupid questions in the future.
Glad to hear the M70's break in nicely.
Most of the reviews I read on the M70's didn't really mention a break in period. In fact most reviews were positive from the git go.
Either way, I think I made a good choice on purchasing the M70's.

Thanks again for your reply.

It wasn't a stupid question at all. They are fairly heavy and bulky in the box and it's hard to tell just how they are packed in the box.

I was always pretty dubious of loudspeaker "break in" claims until I bought Magnepans many years ago. However, I never expected this much change from any loudspeaker, measured and perceived.

I'm curious what your experience will be. Let us know!

Anyway, enjoy your new toys!

jax3822

Guess you got them open allright. Actually the boxes are marked with which end to open. Lots of styrofoam to protect them, no chance of hurting them unless you are so excited you open them with a chain saw!:D

I spend a lot of time on ebay, and usually bookshelf speakers do come in pairs, but often you can find single speakers available. People sometimes use the same fronts for rears and the odd one out for a center, with the orphan speaker left over.

Dont always listen to what the manual says about speaker size and crossover points. A lot of people would rather send the bass freqencies to a dedicated sub all of the time. I am not one of them, but I prefer a full range front speaker as my room placement causes some boominess where I have to place my sub in my favorite listening spot.

I suggest experimentation to see what works best for you, what may sound good one day to you, may not be so good another day. Plus, I like to keep my sub dialed up a little bit for movies so i prefer it off when I listen to music.

I eventually decided to have a 5.1 Yamaha reciever with a set of Energy Take Classics wall mounted, with a Paradigm Pdr8 v.4 sub for movies, xbox360,and HiDef tv viewing, and a 2 channel audio rig for music. It made a lot of the problems with using an AVR for both go away.

Enjoy your new toys!!!

jax3822

Cogito,
So true on break in. I buy a lot of speakers and have had to break in a few pairs. When speakers are new surrounds can be a little stiff, and tweeters a little tight. I am breaking in my 70's every day, and they were floor models, even though I think the shop owner only listened to talk radio on them. I too used test tones to gauge their performance, and I hit 40 hz nice and clean with a real noticeable drop off down to 31hz. They really struggled to output anything that low, but did have some sound at that level.
A good way to break in a speaker fast is to put your disc changer on shuffle, or maybe digital music choice (comcast) and let it play all day while you are out at work at a moderate volume, not too loud but not too soft either. Most will break in around 40hrs, but some will take longer.

cnh

Good idea, if you read all the POLK reviews on this series you will see a number of people who blew their tweeters early on. I'm convinced, in addition to underpowered AVRs that clip easily that one should NOT PUSH the Ms too hard to quickly. The break in period is essential to ensuring a longer tweeter life....don't go blasting those before they're ready and you should be fine.

cnh

curvefan

Thanks again guys for all the great tips. I'm pretty much a rookie when it comes to all this high end speaker talk, so forgive my ignorance at times. I'm learning though, thanks to you guys.

I will try to post some pics when I get everything setup.

I can't wait to hear them. Should be a huge improvement from my old Onkyo HTIB.
Thanks.

curvefan

Back again, with a couple more questions on the new gear.

I have everything hooked up and I have a question about the speaker settings in the Onkyo receiver.

I first set the speaker sizes. I made the fronts (M70's) large and everything else small.
The cross over setting I set to 80Hz.

Then I set the three front speakers all at 0db and the backs to +8db and the sub to +4db.

I ended up increasing the center speaker to +4db as the M70's seemed to be louder than the CS2 when watching a movie.

I don't have an spl meter so all these settings are just from my ears.

The problems I am having while watching a movie is that I have to turn the volume up to hear the voices but when the shooting starts look out! Wowza!!!

I find I'm constantly reaching for the remote to adjust the volume.

Any tips on setting the speaker settings in the Onkyo receiver?