Pair Rare Birds: VS25

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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited December 2009
    Um, okay....I 'think' that is intended as some kind of backhanded compliment, at least I am taking it that way.

    Hey, I am just tryin to have them 'Be all they can be'...Just cuz they got a crappy little tweet doesn't mean they can't be upgraded and I mean just cuz I am one of 5 ppl out there that has them, doesn't mean they can't sound better, right?

    How about some input about my last 'serious' post, regarding the upgrades to the xover and tweeter?
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    It's not a backhanded comment. :)

    But here's the bad news.... i doubt anyone will really be able to answer your questions. Nobody really knows a whole lot about these, and i doubt anyone even knows anyone that's modded these.

    So here's my suggestion:

    If you want to get serious into this, step 1) rebuild crossovers at stock specs with better parts.

    Step 2) Listen, take notes
    Step 3) try the other value that you've got
    Step 4) listen, take notes, decide which one sounds better
    Step 5) Then mess with tweeters.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited December 2009
    Thanks COncealer404, :)
    concealer404 wrote:
    It's not a backhanded comment. :)
    I hand a feeling it wasn't, but hey, I prefer to think the best of ppl, til I am proven otherwise.
    concealer404 wrote:
    But here's the bad news.... i doubt anyone will really be able to answer your questions. Nobody really knows a whole lot about these, and i doubt anyone even knows anyone that's modded these.
    Yeh, I also figured I was on my own, was hopin there might be someone out there besides us two. I mean even if they stooped production right after mine, they are S/N 2243 & 2245 so there still have to be 1,000 pairs out there, right? Unless they are in a landfill..;)
    concealer404 wrote:
    So here's my suggestion: If you want to get serious into this,
    step 1) rebuild crossovers at stock specs with better parts.
    Step 2) Listen, take notes
    Step 3) try the other value that you've got
    Step 4) listen, take notes, decide which one sounds better
    Step 5) Then mess with tweeters.

    step 1) tested resisters at 4.3o, so they are within spec (4.0o on wiring diagram) I will have to wait for some extra $$ for buying parts anyways, good thing is my RTA8TL's take a 5.8uF also, so I am not out extra parts when I try them. I did Moretite the drivers and add some HD foam and Polyfill sheeting inside the cab's. It seemed to deepen the bass alittle.

    Thing is, until I can afford to upgrade my 7's with new caps, RDO's ect, I don't have a good reference to shoot for....

    I did email Kyle so we'll see what he has to say....??

    Thanks for your input ;)
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    Honestly, if you could get these things to even APPROACH stock M7 performance, i'd say that would be a huge accomplishment. Especially on SS gear.

    I'm looking hard for a pair, i'd like to have a pair to mess with and maybe we can make some headway on these, and document it. You know, for the one other person throughout the rest of eternity that may attempt to mess with a pair. :p

    Keep your eye out for me!
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited December 2009
    I will for sure....

    Actually I am 'aiming' for M5 performance..I heard a pair the Geoff upgraded/ restored and they were great..Granted he was running them on McIntosh and I only have B&K, but I am hoping to approach the detail and balance. Should be doable, since these are almost exactly the same cab internal volume...Hey it IS fun to play with, and if we can make a silk purse out of a pig's ear, so much the better.....Then everyone else will be "hey I want those"..hehe
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    Stock M5 performance should be pretty easy to obtain... but you'd need to pair them with some REALLY warm gear. But midrange, imaging, and bass? Absolutely. The only downside in my opinion of the VS25s to the M5s is the tweets.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited December 2009
    Well it would be more like 'hot-rodded' M5's. They had RDo194's, Sonic caps and mills resistors....If I remember they were also filled quite a bit (I think he said 70%?) and were Moretited, of course.

    ANy yeh, I don't think the SL1500's are ever going to approach the RDo194's...let alone something better...hense my search.....coninues...maybe Kyle will come up with something??
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    Maybe... on the flip side, i really think a lot of it could be tamed through the crossover. I'm going to do more research and see what i find this weekend.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited December 2009
    Cool, let me know..:)
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,341
    edited December 2009
    Rock on kcoc321! Enjoy those nice Polks!
    Carl

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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,986
    edited December 2009
    It wasn't backhanded at all, I think it's cool that someone is excited about an all but forgotten Polk model - that screams grassroots, and I dig it. It's the first foray into HT before HT was really even on the map. It's like the RTi150. Another speaker that didn't get much attention or praise, but was Polk's first step back into 'big' speakers without powered subwoofers - and look how the RT line has progressed since.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited December 2009
    Thanks Russ, and I guess I am "grassroots' cuz I enjoy fixing something up and making it better....whether it's speakers, antiques or remodeling houses. Besides that I like having some speakers that not everyone has and that were virtually overlooked.

    They really are the speakers that started it all regarding HT. I found a sales brochure on the polksda site and they talk about how cool it is to hook up Hi-fi speakers while watching TV...Look how far we have come in 25years..now they have what 11.1 and are planning on 22!!! (least according to the article posted on the Forum)

    I 'think' they have potential, just have to get the HF & tweeter issues figured out. They are not quite as bright as the SL2000's, but seem to break up in higher frequency, fast pasted music. I can't 'pinpoint it better than than until I get some way to test freq ect...
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited December 2009
    diverted from another thread...cuz I didn't want to thread jack Ben's speaker thread:
    kcoc321 wrote: »
    Hey Ben, how do the Morel CAT308 sound compared to the RDO-194's or RDO-198's?
    Have you tried an other of their tweeters, like the MDT29-4 or the CAT408's?

    Just curious...I am trying to find a different tweeter for my project VS-25's..
    thanks
    ben62670 wrote: »
    I like the new 308's more than the Polk RDO's. I have run Morel MDT20, MDT30, ET338, and the 308's. I have run two different SEAS tweeters. The vifa ring radiator and XT25 domes. I like the Morel CAT308's the most so far. As for what would be best for a project I wouldn't use any fabric domed Morels, but would use the acuflex dome. Also look at the Dayton silky. For Vifa I liked the XT25 dual concentric design.

    I am REALLY pulled towards the Vifa XT25 dual concentric design too,(have yet to hear them, just from all the hype of the Ls series, but since I have all silk domes, thought I would stay with that style.
    Face wrote: »
    Dayton's new silk dome looks very promising.

    Thanks guys, The Dayton's look very close in spec to the Morel 308's,( IMO, please tell me differently) but a third the $$. One VERY nice thing is they have a truncated version which fits very well/ covers the existing 'hole' I am trying to fill.
    See attached picure:
    attachment.php?attachmentid=45000&stc=1&d=1260742182
    The only thing I can see that worries me, is the power handling @ 50 watts RMS/75 watts max VS THE Morel's @ 200 watts RMS/280 watts max

    Morel 308 Link:
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=277-082

    Dayton DC28FT-8 1-1/8" Truncated Silk Dome Tweeter link:http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=275-076&ctab=1#Tabs


    Still waiting to here back from Kyle to see if Polk has anything that will work.
    I mocked them up with the RDO's but they are very tight, and also look out of proportion.
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited December 2009
    these look pretty good though, any thought????
    especially for the $$ and the frequency response looks good pretty good....at least to my 'uninformed' eyes...
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=279-177
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2009
    I would search out the proper factory tweeter. There is more to it than just knowing how many ohms your tweeters are. Also the advertised specks say that they are 95db. You would need a super efficient tweeter. If you don't like the sound sell them and get something better.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    ben62670 wrote: »
    I would search out the proper factory tweeter. There is more to it than just knowing how many ohms your tweeters are. Also the advertised specks say that they are 95db. You would need a super efficient tweeter. If you don't like the sound sell them and get something better.

    He's got factory tweeters in there... unfortunately, they sound ermmm... not good. The tweets are the weak point of these speakers by a wide margin. I think he's just looking to mess around with them. :) The Vifa is pretty close to the efficiency, though. 94db. The ohms are what i'm not personally sure about, i don't even remember what ohm these speakers are. I want to say 6.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited December 2009
    ben62670 wrote: »
    I would search out the proper factory tweeter. There is more to it than just knowing how many ohms your tweeters are. Also the advertised specks say that they are 95db. You would need a super efficient tweeter. If you don't like the sound sell them and get something better.

    Unfortunately there IS NO GOOD Factory replacement. That tweeter was only used in the Mon4a and the VS series. Polk redesigned the Mon 4's to series II, and dropped the VS/ bookshelves.

    I have emailed POLK about a "factory" replacement, but have not gotten any responses. The RDO's are just too big, with the Polk Faceplates, see pic ^^.
    I guess it is like Russ says, no one (but me, and maybe ben404) gives a sh&$t about these.:(

    As far as ohms, factory specs say they are 6ohm ('standard' 8ohm MW6504 and a 4ohm tweeter) The specs from the 1985 sales brochure say "93dB eff", but IDK if that is really that accurate, since they 'seem' less efficient, to the ear, than my RTA8TL's (with exact same source, ect) BUT I do not currently have a SPL Meter, so maybe. I do know that the MW & PR produce pretty decent midrange, for a speaker this size.

    Ben62670, I gotta say, I was really hoping for some more 'usable" feedback from you, than just "If you don't like them, sell them", given your extensive DIY speaker building expertise.

    But maybe I am just running up against the stigma of not wanting to replace factory Polk tweeters, with ones from another mfr's, even if they are better.
    Hey, like I said before, if I could find some Good Polk tweeters that were replacement, and fit, I would go that route. But no such luck.:(
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited December 2009
    Uhm. Wow.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

    Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999

    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • woodsman10b
    woodsman10b Posts: 408
    edited December 2009
    loyalgeanneld wrote: »
    I hope you can see the fry feeding from my golden albino pair. Just wanted to share these. You dont see pictures of albinos feeding fry very often. Not a big batch of fry, only about 25, but not bad for a first spawn. Enjoy

    WTF?:eek:
    Most of them only hear how loud it sounds, and the rest of us hear everything else - :rolleyes:
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  • everpress
    everpress Posts: 862
    edited December 2009
    loyalgeanneld wrote: »
    I hope you can see the fry feeding from my golden albino pair. Just wanted to share these. You dont see pictures of albinos feeding fry very often. Not a big batch of fry, only about 25, but not bad for a first spawn. Enjoy

    Epic.

    ? Harmon Kardon AVR 55 (dead; replacing with Onkyo TX NR-616)
    ? Polk RTA 11TL's (FR and FL)
    ? Polk TSi200's (RR and RL)
    ? Polk CS10 (Center)
    ? Polk PSW-350
    ? Grado SR-60i Headphones
    ? Fii0 E5 headphone amp
    ? iPod touch (8 gig)
    ? iPod Classic (80 gig)
    ? Mac Mini (as media server)
    ? xbox 360
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