Budget Audiophile: AQ Sidewinders vs Scarlet Vipers vs ???

kawizx9r

Alot of us don't have the luxury of spending alot of money for the things we'd like to have, and when we do spend that type of cash it's mainly invested in components such as preamps, players, amps and other things. There are also some of us that are afraid to put too much coin into a pair of speaker cables, interconnects and other pieces of gear because we simply haven't had the chance to try them out.

I'm currently running a pair of Audioquest Sidewinders between source and pre as well as a pair between pre and amp. In no way are they a hi-end cable, but they sure as hell don't cost much either. I've had a chance to borrow two pairs of Audio Advisor exclusive Audioquest Scarlet Vipers from Ben. I've also extended an invitation to borrow any other cables out there that fall within this price category so I can provide my personal opinion when comparing them side by side in my system. So if you're curious, send over your extra IC's you've got laying around! And Curt, you're welcome to come on by as well!



In the meantime, I'll be comparing the 2 pairs of AQ's with different forms of music and what I liked/disliked about each pair. No need to pull legs here, no benefit whether I lie or tell the truth here....just want to help someone make a decision when comparing different IC's of course keep in mind this is what I am hearing in my rig.

To be continued...

concealer404

I'm going to see if i can talk dpowell into posting his thoughts in your thread as well when he gets his set if that's cool with you. I think he's due to receive his thursday or friday.

I'll wait until you post your thoughts on the Sidewinder vs. Scarlet Vipers before i post mine on the same exact comparison.

steveinaz

AFAIC, there's no such thing as a "high-end" cable; more expensive cable? yes. Exotic materials? sure. Cables are all about tonal flavor. Any cable designed to pass audio, passes the entire audio band---therefore is hi-fi by nature. Now some may convey the music in a way that is more meaningful to you, in your system (aka synergy). I've used Sidewinder, Copperhead, and Diamondback; all of them would be perfectly at home in any system, if the synergy is right.

My point to all this? You don't have to spend a ton of money if the synergy is right. Thinking that spending more on a cable will guarantee you better sound will lead to alot of frustration, TRUST ME. Sometimes a $29 cable can give you exactly the tonal flavor you're looking for; the $29 price tag doesn't make it low-end.

steveinaz

I tried a number of "boutique" digital coaxials, and ended up settling on a $23 Belden 1694A cable from Blue Jeans Cable. Why? It simply outperformed everything else I tried in my system. It was more neutral, linear, and "real" sounding between my CDP and DAC. I suspect that when it comes to digital, making sure the cable is as closely spec'd to the 75ohm standard as possible, this is more important than exotic materials.

reeltrouble1

I think it would be a good thing to be consistent with your total cabling, I do like the term "cable loom" as it implies a certain relationship between all the cabling as it interacts with the components. Costs mean little to me in my various rigs, I use cables that sound good with my gear, I have found that the more expensive cabling (expensive for me that is) has provided a more satisfying overall cable loom in the present Rabbit Hole Rig, some would say my 2ch cabling is rather entry level and there are certainly some great cables and companies out there I will demo in the future, I never like to be "pigeon holed" into just thinking only this or that cable will work (although I suppose I search a bit for THE ONE), so its all what you like and of course we all have budget considerations, trying different cabling is great, nothing like hands on empirical evidence, but if your not changing all the cables in the path, then its tough to determine why you may hear something different or if you like what your hearing because something you dislike is gone and your not hearing it and so on. Seems most guys settle on this or that brand that they like, but if it will sound good in your rig is always a question, round these parts seems the MIT company along with AQ and Kimber have been able to develop a certain cable loom that many find enjoyable. But whosoever cable you might like using then using them consistently throughout the rig is key and the direction I am heading as time and budget allow. Right now I am solid with MIT Shotgun for my analog connects.

I remember once playing with two different PC amp cords, just from the wall outlet to the amps. The first one a so named entry 150 buck cord the other very expensive so named hi-fi cord, the very expensive PC just killed the 150 buck cord.......i mean very very noticealbe difference in musicality and it even sounded louder but it was not, (same spl measurent when checked), so just because a cord is very expensive does not mean it will not work better than a less expensive cord.

Of course one might just not worry about it at all, sit back and enjoy the tunes...... just listen to the music, but then, we are having fun here??? no???? yes???

well I am, having fun, that is.

RT1

vc69

RT1,

Since our little discussion the other day in another thread, I have done some cable swapping and decided to try the "all the same brand" technique you mention.

I am not completely sold as what I like best, but going will all Transparent cable does sound different. I am living with this "loom" for now to see if I accept it. So far so good. The test will be when I put the Cardas prototype back in and listen.

I have been experimenting with speaker placement and have found a sweet spot that is very nice. Cables swaps are more revealing in my current placement . So.... futher down I go.

comfortablycurt

Looks like that should make for a good comparison.

I'm thinking I might be able to make it up there either this weekend or next weekend if that works for you.


One problem though...the cables. I have a single pair of Ben's Silvers, and a single pair of AQ Black Mambas that I can bring...so, we won't have enough to run the same cabling from source-pre and pre-amp.

I've got some other toys I can bring along too...possibly the Peerless 7A's...maybe the Adcom, Denon or Acurus if you're interested.

I'll get back to you when I've got a better idea of what this weekends looking like. I may be heading to the Quad Cities for a night or two with some friends.

reeltrouble1

vc69 wrote: »

RT1,

The test will be when I put the Cardas prototype back in and listen.

So.... futher down I go.

Agree, as you become familiar with a different sound and its "differentness" lessens, returning to something you knew previously can be a useful point of reference. This also points out the weakness is doing short term dealer showroom demo's as well as short term blind tests.......of course that just rung the bell.....so be it.

Fact is my little personal audio journey has had turns I never expected and I have nearly done 180 on my thinking of gear, once I believed you absolutely needed to get the best of each individual thing that made up the system you could afford, not necessarily the most expensive, just the best sounding you could afford, then get the right wire for it to sound best, although I still believe in high quality components I now certainly lean to thinking using the same player, pre, amp to gain system synergy or what have you has benefit, a sort of sum greater than its parts may be possible but not quite sure of this, of course I now have NONE of this and do love my Wolcott Tube amps but this one is about wire comparison............

for years CP had a good sized wire interconnect demo thing, Doro ran it, many different types of wire and so on, I am sure it is in the archives, although there was no loom per say of wire to demo, by far the participants found differences in the wires and those differences were system dependent.......so wire matters but what you hear is unique, similiar for sure, but nonetheless, unique.

RT1

kawizx9r

This went further than I thought with the above posts.

Ted, I love reading your posts buddy! Though the thread is aimed at those that use "lesser-expensive" IC's. It'll be a long way from now before I can even drop $200 on a pair of IC's

Curt, kind of sucks that you only have one pair of AQ's and one pair of Ben's IC's but at least it's something to try out. I might even like the silver stuff anyway since my system really is warm. I cranked it hard with the SDA 1C's (SL2000 tweeters) and the Magnepan's and never once experienced any harshness from the tweeters, and that's all in a living room with hardwood floors, windows behind the speakers, etc. Not a single acoustic panel or anything (yet).

Back to the review, after extensive listening during the past 24 hours the differences are becoming clear. The Scarlet Vipers come off with a 'louder' volume than the Sidewinders. I had to double, triple check my volume setting when playing back the same cd in the same system with cables swapped out. It isn't a huge difference but it is noticeable. Also, there's more bass and midrange coming through while the highs remain untouched. I didn't really like this because 1. I had to turn down and re-adjust the subwoofer to blend in with the Magnepans when I DID use the MicroPro and 2. music seemed to be off-balance for me as opposed to what I'm used to. With the Sidewinders nothing comes off stronger than anything else, it's clean and clear the whole way through. The gain in bass/midrange with the Scarlets though leave my ears missing out on some of the higher notes/frequencies that I'm used to hearing. Again, personal preference. I do like how they sound though when listening to Seether, Shinedown, Metallica, Tool, Nickelback and anything else you can think of in that category but when I put on some Sade, Enigma, Lorna Gee,etc. I simply don't like what I'm hearing. I did give the Maggies a listen with the Scarlet's in place (and subwoofer off) and was surprised with the amount of clean bass put out. I've since left the Scarlet's in place and will continue to listen to them for the time being. More to come after a few more days of listening. I will say however that without the subwoofer, I am liking the SV's better than the Sidewinders.

concealer404

Ok, cool... my ears WEREN'T tricking me. That's pretty much exactly what i experienced. When you bring them with you on the 12th, and i put them back in, you'll be asking me where the sub is.

I'm not sure how the Maggies reacted in terms of soundstage, but it broadened a decent amount switching from Sidewinders to the Scarlet Vipers in my case as well, and the speakers completely disappeared, which i consider quite a feat when you take my utterly stupid room into consideration.

kawizx9r

concealer404 wrote: »

Ok, cool... my ears WEREN'T tricking me. That's pretty much exactly what i experienced. When you bring them with you on the 12th, and i put them back in, you'll be asking me where the sub is.

I'm not sure how the Maggies reacted in terms of soundstage, but it broadened a decent amount switching from Sidewinders to the Scarlet Vipers in my case as well, and the speakers completely disappeared, which i consider quite a feat when you take my utterly stupid room into consideration.

No, I did fail to mention that. The soundstage opened up a bit and sounded better in the sweetspot, it just wasn't as noticeable as the other changes were.

I'm still going to listen to other music before posting anything else, but so far I do like them. Btw, I might have another pair coming in for a 3 way comparison thanks to Doro so wait for that as well!

erniejade

When I put bens cables up agains a set of AQ Columbia's ,,, I actually liked Bens better. On my system they seemed to open up the high end more.

I didn't have to physically change cables since the Jolida CD100 has 2 sets of RCA outputs so it was a matter of hitting a button so the only thing that changed was the cd cable via a swtich.


Columbia's had a tad more on the low end but, the mids and highs seemed smoother to me with ben's vs the Columbia's

I am interested in finding out your reveiws when you have the rest of the cables!

agfrost

Freddy and Curt,

I've got, I don't know, several of Ben's ICs here. (either 3.5 or 4.5 sets) and could take them out of my rig for your purposes if it would be some help.

I might even live in between the two of you (I'm just north of I-88), so if you're heading to Freddy's from Dixon, Curt, it might be possible for you to drop by and pick them up. Or I can drop them in the mail.

Let me know what you guys think.

Jay

kawizx9r

agfrost wrote: »

Freddy and Curt,

I've got, I don't know, several of Ben's ICs here. (either 3.5 or 4.5 sets) and could take them out of my rig for your purposes if it would be some help.

I might even live in between the two of you (I'm just north of I-88), so if you're heading to Freddy's from Dixon, Curt, it might be possible for you to drop by and pick them up. Or I can drop them in the mail.

Let me know what you guys think.

Jay

That'd be great Jay, but if you're currently using them then I'd say keep them in!

2 Pairs would make for a better comparison since it'll replace both that I use in my rig. However I will add that, unless Curt comes out here early Saturday or something my Maggies should be gone. I've got my Polks still and will be using them but I've got a few other pairs of speakers I'm inquiring about. It'll be a fair comparison though since I've had these towers for years and am accustomed to their sound. Btw, I'm up north in Portage Park.

agfrost

I've got something else I can put in for a while (you will be returning them, right? ). Plus, my system is already compromised, I've got my RTA 11TLs pulled apart in preparation for a crossover upgrade, so I'm currently listening thru my Monitor 5jr+.

Just let me know what you think.

Jay

Oh yeah, my sister used to live out in North Park. Not too far from you, I think.

kawizx9r

agfrost wrote: »

I've got something else I can put in for a while (you will be returning them, right? ). Plus, my system is already compromised, I've got my RTA 11TLs pulled apart in preparation for a crossover upgrade, so I'm currently listening thru my Monitor 5jr+.

Just let me know what you think.

Jay

Oh yeah, my sister used to live out in North Park. Not too far from you, I think.

You'll get them back in like a week+ which is around the time I should be giving Ben his cables back. I'll be taking whatever comes in for me to demo over to his place as well so we can compare them on both his rig and mine in our own home.

This is getting to be fun, getting to swap out several different IC's in my rig to hear what sounds best/worst. Something you'd only be able to do after spending time and $$$.

kcoc321

Can you provide a link to the AQ Scarlett Viper cables on AA?
I was not able to find them....Blue Racer II, yes...Black Mombia II, yes, but no Scarlett Vipers..

kawizx9r

Yeah, seems no one was able to find out any information when they were posted on another thread. Maybe they didn't mass produce them? There's a heatshrink looking piece on the cable that says Audio Advisor Inc. Handmade by Randy.

Well, no matter. Seems like I'll get a chance to compare the SW's and SV's with other cables that can be found either used online or a vendor.

Conradicles

I have Sidewinders and Ben's cables, and to me it is not even close. The silvers rule.

concealer404

kcoc321 wrote: »

Can you provide a link to the AQ Scarlett Viper cables on AA?
I was not able to find them....Blue Racer II, yes...Black Mombia II, yes, but no Scarlett Vipers..

They aren't in production anymore, sadly...

There is a HUGE lack of information on them.

I imagine that the Blue Racer II would be the closest current equivalent to them.

dpowell

I'm comparing a set of Audioquest Scarlet Vipers provided by Ben to a set of Monster MK400's that I had originally in my 2-channel system (Please no trashing Monster products necessary here. I picked them up for $8 ea when Good Guys went out of business and all available $$'s have gone to quality equipment. Cable upgrades are a future buy.......). So far in the time I've had to switch between the two, I 'think' I heard a bit more clarity and ability to pinpoint location of instruments with the vipers. HOWEVER, I had one set of cables connected to the dedicated 2-channel outs on my Denon and the other set was connected to the 5.1 front L/R outs. I need to do a bit of research to see if there is a pair of dedicated DAC's on the 2-channel outs because after swapping cables between outputs on the Denon, I would place bets on the changes in soundstage being more related to the outputs on the Denon rather than changing the cables. Those are my first impressions....more to come. Equipment being used is in the 2-channel section of my sig.

concealer404

dpowell wrote: »

I'm comparing a set of Audioquest Sidewinders provided by Ben to a set of Monster MK400's that I had originally in my 2-channel system (Please no trashing Monster products necessary here. I picked them up for $8 ea when Good Guys went out of business and all available $$'s have gone to quality equipment. Cable upgrades are a future buy.......). So far in the time I've had to switch between the two, I 'think' I heard a bit more clarity and ability to pinpoint location of instruments with the sidewinders. HOWEVER, I had one set of cables connected to the dedicated 2-channel outs on my Denon and the other set was connected to the 5.1 front L/R outs. I need to do a bit of research to see if there is a pair of dedicated DAC's on the 2-channel outs because after swapping cables between outputs on the Denon, I would place bets on the changes in soundstage being more related to the outputs on the Denon rather than changing the cables. Those are my first impressions....more to come. Equipment being used is in the 2-channel section of my sig.

They're Scarlet Vipers, not Sidewinders.

Thanks for posting, keep us updated.


Oh snap... looks like i need to choose my next post very carefully.

dpowell

Oops! My bad. :eek: Corrected in original post.

concealer404

dpowell wrote: »

Oops! My bad. :eek:

If Freddy decides to pass on his sets, i can send out two pairs of Sidewinders if you'd like to compare them next week?

dpowell

Ben,
I appreciate the offer. After I finish with this comparison, my rig will be down for 2-3 weeks as I need to take the Denon in for repair before the warranty runs out on it. I'm having that very familiar Denon issue where it won't read certain disc's and can't play some through all the way. Once I get it back, I would definitely be interested in trying some more cables out.

kawizx9r

To be honest, with the differences I heard between the 2 pairs I'd personally choose the Scarlet Vipers for my system if I still had my SDA 1C's.

Oh and btw Ben, I can't guarantee you that your cables will look the same once you get them back so don't go blaming me if they look like a pair of Rat Shack IC's or something

concealer404

Well, i've got 4 pairs total, you guys work out what you want to do. If neither of you want them, then i'll probably sell my Sidewinders, as 4 pairs will be enough for me to keep whatever system i end up with connected.

comfortablycurt

concealer404 wrote: »

Well, i've got 4 pairs total, you guys work out what you want to do. If neither of you want them, then i'll probably sell my Sidewinders, as 4 pairs will be enough for me to keep whatever system i end up with connected.

Let me know...I might take a pair or two.

kawizx9r

Well, another pair has arrived and will up against my head-to-head-to-head test!

However, I will say that this next pair is definitely in a league of it's own compared to the Scarlet Viper's and Sidewinders.

I just want to thank Mark (doro) for giving me the opportunity to borrow a pair from his own stash to try out in my system!

I will post my thoughts on how they compare to the rest later on. Pics shortly coming up

kawizx9r

Never seen a pair of IC's nearly as thick as my speaker cables. I'm currently reading about the switchable impedance networks, will be interesting to find out how it all sounds once I hook them up!

concealer404

Jeeeeezzzzz..... Those are monsters.