Looking for opinions on SDA-1C x-over upgrade plan

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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited January 2010
    Glad you are having fun with it. You can get another 20 years out of those speaker with the new tweeters.
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited January 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    Your 3.1TL's didn't have poly switches to begin with.

    Yes, I know Jesse. But, since I replaced the caps, or the amp, the high end is definately harsh. Maybe I just need to let the caps burn in further. Either that or the Aragon is shrill? It's the first Aragon I have heard, although I have read reviews that it can be bright and that a silk dome tweeter (i.e. RDO-198) would tame it a bit. It just hasn't tamed it enough for my taste. Like I said maybe the caps need to burn in more. Otherwise, I am thinking I may have to add that resistor to replace the jumper. Will that tame it enough (if that turns out to be the case)? It's pretty harsh, and I like brightness in the high end. Maybe I should hook up the 2Bs to the Aragon and see if there is any difference and go from there.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,654
    edited January 2010
    Ah ok...in that case there's no reason you couldn't try adding a .5 ohm resistor or change the 1.3 to a 1.8.

    How many hours on the caps?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited January 2010
    I would say about 60 to 70 hrs on the caps. I know it's still pretty low, but I would think it should be a little more tame than it seems. Maybe it's a combo of the Aragon and the caps? How much does the .5 ohm resistor reduce the brightness?
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited January 2010
    A half ohm resistor is going to do very little.You should continue to burn them in. Run them with a dynamic cd on repeat when you leave the house.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,092
    edited January 2010
    Paden501 wrote: »
    but with the addition of the new resistors i am SHOCKED.

    Man, I noticed the exact same thing recently. When I replaced the caps some months ago I choose not to replace the resistors because the ones I ordered from Parts Express (Daytons) did not look so great and I read they were not much better than factory. So a week or so ago I got the Mills and put them in, and everything really came together.:cool:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited January 2010
    The resistor is a very under appreciated part in the X-over and the Mills wire wound non-inductive are leaps and bounds better sounding than sand cast 20+ year old resistors. Always replace the resistors when doing an upgrade.

    Same thing with a component. Dale, WIMA, Caddock to name a few are much better sounding compared to a .05c carbon resistor. I think some of you are starting to notice why a higher end piece sounds so much better than a lower end, entry level piece, unless of course you think all gear sounds the same. :p:D.

    I can guarantee both the cheap sand cast resistor and Mills resistor will "test/measure" the same on paper but the Mills sounds leaps and bounds better.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2010
    If you don't want to hear your resistors at all, try Duelund.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,092
    edited February 2010
    Matt,
    My guess is that these are broken-in and sounding fantastic about now.
    What do you think? Nice upgrade I bet.
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  • cayovelez
    cayovelez Posts: 77
    edited July 2010
    Hello all, Thanks to paden501, and many others I finally got around to update my crossovers in my 1c. It has been a long time, and was going to have Ben do them, but I had some family matters to tend in Puerto Rico and …….wow well, Ben thanks! So, here is the way I went about: I had issues with my amp, so after sending my older gfa-555 mkII to Musical Concepts and they performed a LX upgrade to it, all my amp issues went away. So, after a while, I started updating my SDA 1c little at a time, first did Dayton spikes, then upgrade the sl2000 to rdo 194, and last the crossover and binding post. So, as far as crossover I went mainly with ClarityCaps: I used ClarityCaps for 12uf,20uf and 39uf, Sonic Cap Gen I 4.3uf, Mills MRA 12 2(7.5 ohms) 1(2.7 ohms), and for post and sda cable I went with Cardas pure copper and Cardas rca connector. It was an easy clean pleasurable job to do, however I have one big issue and perhaps I have no reason for corner, but when I replaced the 40uf cap on the old crossover I noticed that it is an electrolytic cap (I believe aluminum), and if I am not mistaken electrolytic caps require +/- directional. So by replacing it with the ClarityCaps 39uf cap do any harm since the polarity variant?

    Thanks, Carlos
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited July 2010
    cayovelez wrote: »
    .. when I replaced the 40uf cap on the old crossover I noticed that it is an electrolytic cap (I believe aluminum), and if I am not mistaken electrolytic caps require +/- directional. So by replacing it with the ClarityCaps 39uf cap do any harm since the polarity variant?

    Thanks, Carlos
    No problem as the electrolytic's used in crossovers are non polar types.
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  • michaeljhsda2
    michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,185
    edited October 2010
    deleted
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's
    Silk Audio MS-90-BT integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
    SDA 2B TL's
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  • Paden501
    Paden501 Posts: 286
    edited October 2010
    Conradicles and all,

    Sorry for the horribly late reply. I have been doing a lot of travelling for work lately and haven't had time to keep up with these boards much in the last few months.

    To answer the question, these speakers sound GREAT! Like I said, I've not been home a lot, but when I am home I enjoy the mods I made a lot. It amazes me how much deeper and tighter the bass response is since the mod, and also how much midrange clarity I gained.

    All in all, upgrading the xovers has made these 1Cs into completely different animals. I recommend this upgrade to anybody!
    ~Matt
    My System

    Front L/R: Definitive BP10Bs
    Surrounds -Polk Audio Monitor 4As
    Preamp: B&K Reference 20
    CD: Jolida JD100a
    L/R Amp: Carver TFM-24
    Turntable: Pioneer PL-516 W/ Shure M97xe
    TV: Sony 52" XBR9
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  • michaeljhsda2
    michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,185
    edited November 2010
    Finally upgraded my 1C's. The ClarityCap ESA's are gigantic. Hey Mike (Face) you're right when you said "it's like trying to put 10 lbs of poo in a 5 lb bag." Thanks for the recommendation of the ESA's. The speakers sound better already.
    SDA SRS 2.3TL's
    Silk Audio MS-90-BT integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
    SDA 2B TL's
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  • JimMueller
    JimMueller Posts: 100
    edited December 2010
    I'm thinking of sending my future parts to Ben because I'm not comfortable with my soldering abilities. The RD0-194-1's are enroute from California. I have a Yamaha RX-V2600 receiver and a Carver TFM-42, but the 1C's are connected to the Carver. What should I use for the polyswitch to maintain flexibility to connect the speakers to either amp? I would prefer to keep OEM functionality unless there are side effects?

    I made two parts lists, the expensive one is below:
    (2) Duelund 7R5 10W resistors, PartsConnection.com @$20
    (2) Duelund 2R7 10W resistors, "" @$20
    (2) ClarityCap ESA 12µF 630VDC capacitors, Madisound, @$31
    (4) ClarityCap ESA 2.2µF 630VDC capacitors, Madisound, @$12 (2 per XO, total 4.4µF)
    (4) ClarityCap ESA 10µF 630VDC capacitors, Madisound, $30 (2 per XO, total 20µF)
    (2) ClarityCap ESA 39µF 630VDC capacitors, Madisound, $121

    Cost aside, will these components safely fit on the OEM PCB or on Gimp's custom PCB?

    Cost - Not being able to compare my hearing with others, I'm looking for opinions on whether there's a big bang for the buck in paying for ESA components over the SA/PX line, Sonicap's, etc. I don't want to pay a lot extra for the last grain of sound quality.

    The above setup is $430. My original list of Sonicaps 200VDC, Mills resistors & a ESA12 630VDC capacitor was almost $200 cheaper including the Soniccraft 20% discount (thru 12/17). What am I gaining for the extra $200 besides a lighter wallet and looking like a fool for possibly overspending?

    Jim
    Yamaha RX-2600 receiver, Nakamichi Dragon, Mitsubishi HS-U80 VCR, Pioneer DVL-90 LD Player, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray player, Sony CDP-X555ES CD player, Carver TFM-42, Carver AV-634, Panasonic TC-P54V10 plasma, BenQ W1070 PJ, Fisher MT-90 turntable, AKG-K340 headphones, Polk SDA-1C mains, CS-400i center, FX A4 surrounds, Rti A1 surround backs
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited December 2010
    While I am sure the ESA's sound awesome I would like to defend the sound of Sonicaps.

    I tried a couple of different brands (dayton, Jantzen,and Sonicaps) the Sonicaps were honestly the best bang for the buck. Besides the fact that I don't see a need for 650VDC cap in speakers originally designed around 100VDC caps. Again just my opinion but you could use the money saved toward good speaker cables or even rewire the whole speaker internally or both.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    JimMueller wrote: »
    Cost - Not being able to compare my hearing with others, I'm looking for opinions on whether there's a big bang for the buck in paying for ESA components over the SA/PX line, Sonicap's, etc. I don't want to pay a lot extra for the last grain of sound quality.
    I wouldn't bother with the SA/PX line if you're consider Sonic Caps or ESA's.
    The above setup is $430. My original list of Sonicaps 200VDC, Mills resistors & a ESA12 630VDC capacitor was almost $200 cheaper including the Soniccraft 20% discount (thru 12/17). What am I gaining for the extra $200 besides a lighter wallet and looking like a fool for possibly overspending?
    The biggest difference will be better spacial information(imaging/soundstaging).
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited December 2010
    The SA line is nice but I'd choose Sonicaps over SA and I'd choose ESA's over Sonicaps. Best choice here if cost is a consideration are Sonicaps (the 20% discount is a nice bonus). They work wonderfully well with Polks and fit on the board a little easier.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Outfitter03
    Outfitter03 Posts: 563
    edited December 2010
    heiney9 recommended not using the 5w mills resistor earlier in this post. Is there a problem with this resistor or is it just not able to handle the power requirements and overheat?

    If this is the problem, is it specific to this crossover. Is it suitable for the tweeter crossover or just unacceptable period for Polk speakers? Most of the polk schematics have 5W power ratings on the resistors, but as mentioned above they are a different design.

    I have ordered a few of the 5 watt Mills resistors for crossovers, but they are all for use in the tweeter circuit. Would it be wiser to order another set of 12 watt instead?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,654
    edited December 2010
    5 watt Mills resistors will be fine.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited December 2010
    F1nut wrote: »
    5 watt Mills resistors will be fine.

    Yep. I used the 12W simply because it gives a little extra margin, it looks cooler and they don't cost that much more. You can certainly use the 5W(which is spec.) since they are already on the way.

    If someone *asks* for a recommendation, I still recommend the 12W.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • JimMueller
    JimMueller Posts: 100
    edited December 2010
    I've been reading other threads and received the quote for the work. I'm leaning towards going all Sonicap and doing it myself at this point. Will Duelund resistors be overkill for Sonicaps?
    Yamaha RX-2600 receiver, Nakamichi Dragon, Mitsubishi HS-U80 VCR, Pioneer DVL-90 LD Player, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray player, Sony CDP-X555ES CD player, Carver TFM-42, Carver AV-634, Panasonic TC-P54V10 plasma, BenQ W1070 PJ, Fisher MT-90 turntable, AKG-K340 headphones, Polk SDA-1C mains, CS-400i center, FX A4 surrounds, Rti A1 surround backs
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited December 2010
    JimMueller wrote: »
    I've been reading other threads and received the quote for the work. I'm leaning towards going all Sonicap and doing it myself at this point. Will Duelund resistors be overkill for Sonicaps?

    I don't think they will be overkill but Mills work and sound fine. It's up to you and your wallet.
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