Best Bang for Buck Tweak?

jaxwired

I've seen lots of audio reviewers and audio insiders comment that one of the most significant factors in how your system sounds is room acoustics. Yet, beyond speaker placement most people seem to ignore this issue entirely and focus on electronics, cables, and speakers. People put way more effort into picking cables than room acoustics, yet most experts seem to agree that room acoustics have more impact on sound quality.

With that said, has anyone reading this focused on improving room acoustics? If so, what did you do?

I know there are a lot of room treatment products sold (tube traps for instance), but they are usually very expensive and seem way over-priced. Has anybody tried these devices or made your own?

Thoughts? Comments?

Face

Yeah, hi!

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89987&highlight=trap

concealer404

^Beat me to it.

Hawkeye

I read a quote somewhere that said "I'd rather listen to a mid-fi system in a treated room vice a high-end system in an untreated room" or words to that effect.

I believe most people ignore them for several reasons. WAF, cost or the plain fact that they just sit there and are not as satisfying as bright, new shiny piece of electronics. Myself included until I realized what I was missing. What is nice about traps, is that they will work with ANY piece of gear you may ever own. No synergy issues here. Perhaps careful placement depending on room and speakers, but that is about it.

My traps are from RealTraps and I spent a bit over 1k for the 6. Expensive? Yes, but the quality of the piece is important to me if it is going to be such a large part of the room since they can be visually very dominant. There are some brands that are not as expensive which I know alot of people have received great results. There is something out there for every budget.

Once a room is treated with the correct pieces, you'll find out how nice your gear really sounds. I chased many wires in an attempt to get the sound I was after. One day a guy asked me about the room and the light bulb finally came on. The important thing is the correct material. Lightweight foam or egg-crate is not going to do the job like 703/705 will do in the correct thickness. Corners need 2X4X6, behind the speakers 2X4X4, 1st refection point 2X4X1 or more depending on liveliness of the room and perhaps some diffusion on the rear wall. One may over damp the mids and highs with too many pieces designed to work in that range, so you just add pieces as needed. Bass traps on the other hand, the more the better! As you add bass traps, you'll find the bottom become more and more defined and the one-note bass opens up into multi-tones and presents a much more refined and accurate line.

As you might be able to tell, I'm a BIG believer in trapping a room:D I wish I would have considered the room as a component a long time ago. It would have saved me a huge amount of money and time chasing my tail. As I'm able to sneak another piece into the living room, my wife gives me the eye and agrees as long as she can cover them in "appropriate" fabric!

I'd suggest you visit RealTraps.com and get a read on. Ethan has some very good tutorials available. Even if you decide to make your own or purchase them somewhere else, his site is full of great info.

Gordon

steveinaz

Our great room has a good mix of hard/soft surfaces, and the one 90 degree corner that I have near the left speaker has a pueblo type ladder with mexican blankets on it. The Right speaker is about 4ft from a 45 degree angle corner fireplace. The speakers are 8ft apart, about 9.5ft from the listening couch. The room is also fairly large and completely open, as it encompasses the living room, dining room, and kitchen. Add to that concrete sub-flooring and makes for a very good environment for a system. The "area" is about 16ft wide x 36ft deep, with a vaulted ceiling that goes from 8ft to 14 ft in the center of the room. Bass is very neutral/smooth in this room due to the space and depth available. The speakers sit about 30" off the rear wall (to the front baffles) and neither speaker is closer than 3ft to the corners.

jm1

Room treatments are not sexy. They do not have a stylish chassis, flashing lights or utilize exotic materials using special winding geometries. It’s a lot harder to brag about them. Others may be unable to use them due to external influences.

I have had some comment they wouldn't ever place tube traps in their audio room. ??? It’s an effective audio treatment to improve the sonic characteristics of the room.

Anyways, this is what I have done with my room. The tube traps have migrated somewhat in their placement from the attached pictures.

Tube Traps

Diffusers

Attached is a picture of the ceiling treatment I built.

The sonic improvements to the room characteristics are radically beyond the expectations I had hoped for at the start of this journey.

Hawkeye

jm1, I was betting you'd jump into this! I was going to refer the OP to your previous posts about traps but I had an inkling you'd be by!

Gordon

reeltrouble1

I'd say its pretty safe to assume most of the regulars here use some sort of room treatment.

I use a variety of GIK and Auralex along with other textiles.

That ceiling idea is fantastic jm......doing something similiar is on my "list", in a couple weeks I am going to Palmetto Audio's hi-fi store for a little audio shin-dig, the ceiling in their room is covered in the most unusual acoustic tiles I have ever seen, its a pretty big room I dunno maybe 20x25x10 the tiles were quite expensive approaching five figures but wow what a sound the room has with a set of Beveridge and two corner loaded subs matched to the speakers. The big HT room at Polk HQ with the LCi in walls also has some very nice tiles in the ceiling......good stuff.

I guess the biggest bang for buck tweek is getting your speakers set correctly.....which costs, well.....nothing.

RT1

beardog03

how didi you hang the ceiling one ?

jm1

Yes RT, speaker placement is paramount. It’s sad to see speakers stuffed in a corner, sometimes with a couch in front of them or pushed against the wall to be out of the way.

The ceiling treatment had more impact than most could ever envision. This is my proprietary design which incorporates additional acoustic properties so this may factor into the implementation results. The leading room design company wouldn’t have any problem adding this to their list of suppliers should I decide to manufacture it. Not sure what I am going to do at this point as I am not equipped to commercially produce this.

I mounted a 1x2 hardwood board to the ceiling joists where the panel was to be placed. Eye-hooks are screwed into the 1” surface (side) of the hardwood board. The back of the acoustic panel also has eye-hooks in corresponding locations. S-hooks are used to hang the panel from the ceiling. I can use various sizes or multiple numbers of s-hooks to change the ceiling/panel gap.

Jaxwired,

Glad to see you use some Dyn S1.4. I had the S1.4’s in the room at one point, but moved to the C1’s. The kids now use the S1.4’s in their system as my (non audio) SO wouldn’t let me sell them once she heard them.

If you don’t have the Dyn stands for these, you need to get them. Mounting them directly to the stand is a big improvement. Mass loading the stands provides additional benefits.

SCompRacer

I’ve got ~$800 in GIK Tri Traps/244 panels. One of the best investments I made. My ceiling is 14’ so I didn’t put anything up there.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86154&highlight=room+treatment

Blake (blakeh) spent $553 for 10 panels at ATS.

Duell (LessisNevermore) went the DIY route and spent ~$500 for 12 panels and 4 bass traps.

everpress

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I guess the biggest bang for buck tweek is getting your speakers set correctly.....which costs, well.....nothing.

RT1

Bingo.

Find a manual and see what the manufacturer recommends the speakers' placement to be. Start there and remember that every surface will have an effect on the sound you get. Sit down, give a listen, then move the speakers a few more inches this way or that.

Placement is pretty much free.

jaxwired

jm1 wrote: »

Jaxwired,

Glad to see you use some Dyn S1.4. I had the S1.4’s in the room at one point, but moved to the C1’s. The kids now use the S1.4’s in their system as my (non audio) SO wouldn’t let me sell them once she heard them.

If you don’t have the Dyn stands for these, you need to get them. Mounting them directly to the stand is a big improvement. Mass loading the stands provides additional benefits.

Hi Jm,
Just got the contours actually. Absolutely loving them so far athough I think they ideally need more room to breath than my 11x14 listening room has to offer. Some day I might go for the C1's or their successor. But for now I'm very happy with my system.

Regarding the Dyn stands. No, actually I'm not using them right now. I'm thinking about getting them. However, I'm actually liking my atlantis steel stands. They are only 20" which works very nice given my low seating position. I'm using quake hold museum putty to create a tight bond with the stands (basically blue tac, but not blue). But my wife thinks I should get the dyn stands just or saftey. As you know these S1.4s are heavy brutes and I've got 2 toddlers.

BTW, my wife is a non-audio type also. That's why my 2 channel system is in a spare bedroom. She considers it torture when I make her listen to something. LOL.

Question about the C1s. The specs say they don't go quite as low as the S1.4s. What was your impression on the bass when you switched to them?

Cheers!

jm1

You should be fine with the S1.4’s in your room. The Stand4 brings the monitors to the correct height they were designed to be listened at. I have my stands filled with #8 lead shot which makes each stand/monitor about 110lbs. They can still be tipped over, but it takes a little more effort. The rear column of the stand uses a bag so the shot is totally enclosed. The front column has openings on both ends. I sealed the ends with some heavy duty duct tape so the shot is contained within the column when attached to the monitor and stand with the bolts.

Its been a few years since they have been in the room, but as far as low end response, they are very similar. The S1.4 and the C1 share the same general sonic characteristics, but the C1 gives you a significantly higher level of refinement of all the sonic characteristics due to the Esotar driver family and cabinet design.

Stereophile had reviewed the C1’s and there are actual measurements of speaker’s performance.

Confidence C1 loudspeakers - A State of Awe

Dynaudio Confidence C1 loudspeaker


Some pictures I quickly took this morning.

ben62670

A few other idea's here.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71989

RuSsMaN

....

organ

Call me crazy, but the best sound I get in my rig is by using speakers that spread their sound a lot lol. I've only treated the wall behind me.

Hey Russ! Good to see you back, man.