How much should I pay for this car?

Mazeroth

I haven't purchased a used car in over 10 years and have always went with my Dad's GM discount. I've been looking for a Firebird for a while and found one I really like. If it's in great condition I'm going to possibly buy it. The question is, if it's in great condition, what would you pay for it?

Here's a link to it on Craigslist:

http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/1435491011.html

KBB says $5,745 in Good and $5,195 in Fair.

Mazeroth

I'd love an older one but can't afford one. The big draw to the early 2000's Camaros and Firebird V6's is that they run forever. I've seen tons of them with over 150,000 miles. I know the interior doesn't look fantastic but I really don't care. I'm gutting the sound system and putting in a touchscreen up front and a carputer in the rear with GPS and all that good stuff. High-end Asus Xonar soundcard with an active crossover and everything EQ'd. Should be sweet.

Jstas

That doesn't seem too bad of a price for that. $4600 is reasonable. But if blue book is almost a grand more, I gotta wonder what's wrong with it. It may look pretty but have a total **** transmission. Dude might have been quoted $800 to rebuild the 4L60E (essentially an electronically controlled 700R4) which is fairly inexpensive on parts but labor intensive.

If you go look at it, check the oil filler cap, run your finger along the inside and see what comes out. If it's milky brown, it's got a problem, like an intake gasket or head gasket. Both aren't cheap. If not, drive it. I'm not talkin' a spin around the block. I'm talking a test drive. Long enough for the engine to reach operating temps. If there is an engine light, it should come on during that test drive. If not, any hint of drivability issues could be cause for concern. Also, look around the hatch, they are notorious leakers as well as T-Tops. Hopefully he's upfront with you.

If the car is OK, he might just be looking to unload it and low-balling to make it attractive. But be warned. Even if it is a V6, it's still a "pull-me-over red" Firebird and it's a cop magnet.

Mazeroth

Thanks for all the info, Jstas. I was going to get a black one but my last few cars have all been black and they show everything. I baby my cars and my latest one, a 2003 Olds Alero I bought new has at least 15 scratches, dings, paint rub-offs from various parking lots. I haven't scratched that car at all. It amazes me how people can damage others' property and not inform them. I couldn't sleep at night if I did that. That's why I was considering a red one but I would really prefer a black. Would a black Firebird get pulled over just as often?

Mazeroth

For reference, 24,000 more miles and it's on ebay going for $1000 more. Granted, it IS one year newer. :rolleyes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Female-Owned-This-has-been-my-baby-Remote-Start_W0QQitemZ280419538686QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item414a4e96fe#v4-36

sTiLlLeArNiNg

I wouldn't pay anything for it! It's only a 6 shooter

Sweet ride's Lasareath!





A couple from my personal stash, taken by me at one of the 2008 OSCA event's held at Toronto Motorsport's Park (Cayuga Dragway) I LOVE the smell of nitro in the mornin'! I missed this season but hope to back at it starting next spring

billbillw

I wouldn't buy a V6 Firebird, Camaro, or Mustang. They just don't have any long term value. You think running 150,000 miles is "forever"? That's the minimum any engine should run these days. A typical japanese V6 will last you 250,000 if cared for. Same with most of the Ford Duratec V6 motors. My Mom's Taurus has 180,000 miles on it and still going strong.

Mazeroth

billbillw wrote: »

I wouldn't buy a V6 Firebird, Camaro, or Mustang. They just don't have any long term value. You think running 150,000 miles is "forever"? That's the minimum any engine should run these days. A typical japanese V6 will last you 250,000 if cared for. Same with most of the Ford Duratec V6 motors. My Mom's Taurus has 180,000 miles on it and still going strong.

Why would I care about long term value on a car that's already almost 10 years old?

As for the engines, it's relative to the age of the car. A 2000 has only been on the road for 10 years so seeing so many of them with 150k miles is a good sign.

[Deleted User]

Did someone say STASH!

Halen

comfortablycurt

Jstas wrote: »

That doesn't seem too bad of a price for that. $4600 is reasonable. But if blue book is almost a grand more, I gotta wonder what's wrong with it. It may look pretty but have a total **** transmission. Dude might have been quoted $800 to rebuild the 4L60E (essentially an electronically controlled 700R4) which is fairly inexpensive on parts but labor intensive.

If you go look at it, check the oil filler cap, run your finger along the inside and see what comes out. If it's milky brown, it's got a problem, like an intake gasket or head gasket. Both aren't cheap. If not, drive it. I'm not talkin' a spin around the block. I'm talking a test drive. Long enough for the engine to reach operating temps. If there is an engine light, it should come on during that test drive. If not, any hint of drivability issues could be cause for concern. Also, look around the hatch, they are notorious leakers as well as T-Tops. Hopefully he's upfront with you.

If the car is OK, he might just be looking to unload it and low-balling to make it attractive. But be warned. Even if it is a V6, it's still a "pull-me-over red" Firebird and it's a cop magnet.

I was going to give some advice, but Jstas basically covered it.

I'm a Firebird fan myself...I've got two of them. A 1990 Formula 350 five speed, and a 1990 Firebird with a 3.1 V6.

The Formula might be getting sold before too long though. In the next few years I'm hoping to get an 02 WS6 TransAm.



There are a ton of options out there for building those 3.8's! They've got tons of potential. If you're ever looking for some good tips from some good people about your car, check out the forums at fullthrottlev6.com.

There's a plethora of knowledge about GM V6's specifically, as well as other V6's. There are a lot of people there with 3.8 F-bodies running in the high 10's and low 11's.


edit-Forget to mention, I'd say that price is quite fair. I'd definitely give it a very thorough looking over though. You never know if a cars been abused...and even more so with cars like Firebirds.

billbillw

Mazeroth wrote: »

Why would I care about long term value on a car that's already almost 10 years old?

As for the engines, it's relative to the age of the car. A 2000 has only been on the road for 10 years so seeing so many of them with 150k miles is a good sign.

Why care about value? Because some cars that are 10 years old are already depreciated as much as they are going to and they will always hold value. V8 cars, V8 trucks, good quality convertibles, and certain desirable cars (BMWs, Benz, etc) fit in that category That Firebird? It most likely will keep loosing value. Still, if you want that, I'd check NADA values. $4-5k for that seems like too much.
www.nadaguides.com

Jstas

Me personally, if I'm buying a Firebird, V6 or V8, I'm not really concerned about resale value 'cause I'm holding on to it.

But then again, it's the V8 'birds that are worth something. V6 'birds get turned in to race cars and some dude will gladly buy a clapped out V6 with 250,000 miles on it 'cause it's gonna be a gutted shell on a rolling chassis and getting a transplant.

The V6 in the 'birds has plenty of oomph. Granted not as much as the V8 model but a early 2000's V6 F-body has a similar power to weight ratio of a mid 90's V8 F-body and better weight distribution.

Also, the 3.8L V6 from GM is one of the oldest engines in production. They are notoriously rock solid and the engines have powered everything from mid-sized cars to pick up trucks, vans and SUV's. Mated to a 4L60E which is equally rugged, they will last and run forever with proper maintenance. Especially the non-TBI versions.

They do have some issues with gaskets and manifolds during certain years and I'm not fully sure which ones have which issues but they are nothing to be scared of.

If you're buying a non-collectible 10 year old car, resale value should be the last thing on your mind because it can and will still lose value. Get the Firebird. V6? V8? Who cares? It's a Firebird!

Besides, if you REALLY want V8 power, the Eaton roots blower kit fits like a champ and pushes power in to the LS1 power range with better gas mileage. Or you can get the Vortech kit for it and get slightly lower power output but a wider power band.

comfortablycurt

There are plenty of people running some nasty turbo setups on their 3.8's too! They don't have any trouble keeping up with the LS1's.

As others have said, I wouldn't worry too much about resale value. In fact, I wouldn't worry about it at all. You're getting this car because you want a Firebird. Sports cars in general have terrible resale value...especially if you modify them. You'll never get back what you put into them.

It's about the love of the hobby.