Tube 101 for the newbie :)

disneyjoe7

So if an amp is made of several tubes, is it more important to replace the end tube (driver) or the first tube? Or is it best to replace all of the same brand / type when replacing one?

SCompRacer

If you have no idea how many hours are on the driver tubes, it is best to replace them all. You could have the tubes tested to see where they are at in their service life. The best test for that is with a mutual conductance tube tester. A tube emission tester will basically tell you if a tube is usable or not.

A mutual conductance (Gm) checker will apply voltage to each element of the tube, supply bias and a signal to the control grid and subject the tube to a test much like it may be used in an actual circuit, measuring plate current and indicating such in micromhos.

You can compare the Gm readings to a new tube, keeping in mind a tube testers tolerance (might be 5-15%, depending on brand of tester). The reading also depends on the tube testers state of calibration.

Some folks log their play hours so the tubes can be replaced before they can fail.

disneyjoe7

Ok my post is if a really sweet tube is worth $100+ and I have 4 of them in line, is a tube replacement like cables?


All the tubes are GE grey plate or Phillips grey plate. I don't have an issue with the pre amp, I just looking forward with I can do to improved the pre amp


And what are the good Tube tester manufacture people?

reeltrouble1

I am moving you one step away from Ultimate GeeK status, oh, your still a Geek, but..........

dont over think it, you just got it, enjoy it, get to know the sound of it, plenty of time to roll tubes, they have a very long life 5-10-15 thousand hours, if one goes bad your going to know it, if you got lots of bucks to blow, lets talk source and amplification, you need those way more than a tube, so study the tubes you think your going to want while getting to know the ones you have. save your coins, cut down on your necessacities, but if your going to fritter and fret about this tube or that tube the most likely result is irreversable impotence.

your on your way Steve, you got the speaks you got the pre, hold on tight and enjoy the ride, you already felt it when the sound hits and the little hairs stand on end........yea baby.

RT1

Krazyz1

Alot of talk about equipt. having tubes have sparked a curiosity. I do not own tube and know of anyone with tube equipt. Closest audio shop is about a hour and a half away and carry product I can't afford like McIntosh ect. Is the sound difference between tube vs S.S. very slight or big difference lke vinyl vs CD? Iv'e read some articles here of members being very excited about finding a particular tube. Is that tube swap out for sound quality purposes , or life span of tube or both or none of the above.I am not anti tube just have not had any exposure and was curious.

thsmith

Krazyz1 wrote: »

Alot of talk about equipt. having tubes have sparked a curiosity. I do not own tube and know of anyone with tube equipt. Closest audio shop is about a hour and a half away and carry product I can't afford like McIntosh ect. Is the sound difference between tube vs S.S. very slight or big difference lke vinyl vs CD? Iv'e read some articles here of members being very excited about finding a particular tube. Is that tube swap out for sound quality purposes , or life span of tube or both or none of the above.I am not anti tube just have not had any exposure and was curious.

No expert but what I found in the last month with my new aquired Anthem 1 is it came with JJ EL34s and it did not sound that much different than my Carver TFM-45. I then swapped the 12AU and 12AX7s which improved the sound. Then went to Flying C EL34s and that was a very nice improvement, much tighter bass than the JJs and most recently went to E1 6CA7s and at this point my little Anthem AMP 1 slays my Carver TFM-45.

The Carver is very nice but the flexibility you get with tubes allows for changing the sound until you find magic.

Krazyz1

Mr. thsmith. Thank you for your explanation..Your term " flexibility" to find the magic answered 99% of what I wanted to know. The only un answered question is sound difference between tube and S.S. Subtle like the difference between Folgers and Maxwellhouse coffee or in your face like vinyl vs CD.

george daniel

To/for me,,tubes exhibit more of warm/organic sound,as I have grown accustomed to them,I can discern from most SS amps,, not all mind you,the fun part is experimenting--rolling tubes to get the sound you want.A good way to get into tubes(for me) was a tubed pre and ss amplification,, then after hearing a certain Polkies SDA/Manley/Joule/Jolida rig,I was hooked.A valuable lesson for me was,S,S, and source. YMMV--good luck.

Krazyz1

Last question and will consider myself fully informed. Any change in sound stage....depth , width , sound saturation?

thsmith

SS amp can achieve all or those things and are not unique to Tube amps.

Like George said, "tubes exhibit more of warm/organic sound".

george daniel

Krazyz1 wrote: »

Last question and will consider myself fully informed. Any change in sound stage....depth , width , sound saturation?

The largest soundstage I ever attributed to an amp was a Belles 350a,, the best detail I've ever experienced I attribute to vintage tube gear,which IMHO is a little more intimate.YMMV.

SCompRacer

Did the previous owner give you an idea of how many hours the tubes had on them? While my recommendation may seem extreme, I have had tube failures in amps that gave me warning and some that were quite sudden and visually stimulating. The big blows can just take the tube, send a nasty spike to the speaker, blow the amps power fuse or even take out part of the amps circuit. A small clock and notebook by the gear is all that is required to keep track of tube time by date. Same goes for turntable cartridges. Once you near or reach the max hours on the output tubes for your particular amp, you can have them tested to see where they test at, replace, or roll the dice and keep going.

Here is a good read about tube testers.

http://www.alltubetesters.com/articles/tester_guide.htm

You can spend several hundred to over a $1K for the highly recommended testers. You can check at local audio emporiums to see if they have or know someone with a tester that will test your tubes. I did a search for antique radio repair in my Chicago area and found a site that listed several places that repaired radios/sold tubes. I found a guy 20 minutes away that would test tubes for $1 each. Should you find someone that will test, just ask them if their tester does mutual conductance testing.

doctorcilantro is a member here that offered a tube testing service both here and on Audiogon. IIRC he lives in Tampa, so you would have shipping though if you are not nearby.

Like Ted said, get used to the sonics, and research what different tubes will do for the sonics (input and output tubes). Tubes are special as they provide linear amplification through electron flow in a vacuum.

Krazyz1

Thank you for all the good info!

disneyjoe7

SCompRacer wrote: »

Did the previous owner give you an idea of how many hours the tubes had on them? While my recommendation may seem extreme, I have had tube failures in amps that gave me warning and some that were quite sudden and visually stimulating. The big blows can just take the tube, send a nasty spike to the speaker, blow the amps power fuse or even take out part of the amps circuit. A small clock and notebook by the gear is all that is required to keep track of tube time by date. Same goes for turntable cartridges. Once you near or reach the max hours on the output tubes for your particular amp, you can have them tested to see where they test at, replace, or roll the dice and keep going.

Here is a good read about tube testers.

http://www.alltubetesters.com/articles/tester_guide.htm

You can spend several hundred to over a $1K for the highly recommended testers. You can check at local audio emporiums to see if they have or know someone with a tester that will test your tubes. I did a search for antique radio repair in my Chicago area and found a site that listed several places that repaired radios/sold tubes. I found a guy 20 minutes away that would test tubes for $1 each. Should you find someone that will test, just ask them if their tester does mutual conductance testing.

doctorcilantro is a member here that offered a tube testing service both here and on Audiogon. IIRC he lives in Tampa, so you would have shipping though if you are not nearby.

Like Ted said, get used to the sonics, and research what different tubes will do for the sonics (input and output tubes). Tubes are special as they provide linear amplification through electron flow in a vacuum.

I emailed him about hours on tubes, giving what he states around 1k in hours. The tube set is 3 or 4 years old. I will bring the tube set with me at PF to check them. I at times have a noise with female voices.

disneyjoe7

Doesn't someone make an electronic timer which would add up hours on using the switched outlet?

heiney9

george daniel wrote: »

To/for me,,tubes exhibit more of warm/organic sound,as I have grown accustomed to them,I can discern from most SS amps,, not all mind you,the fun part is experimenting--rolling tubes to get the sound you want.A good way to get into tubes(for me) was a tubed pre and ss amplification,, then after hearing a certain Polkies SDA/Manley/Joule/Jolida rig,I was hooked.A valuable lesson for me was,S,S, and source. YMMV--good luck.

This is very true. With my SS pre-amp by using the HT pass thru I hooked my tube pre up so I could A/B the (2) pre-amps by remote. I was careful to match the output, and with some tubes on some songs it was hard to tell a difference. Then on many songs w/most tubes you could hear differences. Most noteable for most listening was a difference in bass (postive and negative, IMO) and air around the recording, but the biggest difference I heard were soundstage cues for intruments and singers. Better seperation, placement, depth, width and realism.

Tubes at one level or another seem to add an organic element and a tad more realism. The SS pre always sounds a bit flat, dry and 2 dimensional to me now that I have tubes in the mix.

The way I'm describing it makes it sound like night and day, but it's a lot more subtle, and once you pick up on some of these characteristics of tubes.............you'll notice when they are missing.

At one point I was playing some pretty familar demo music and I thought I had switched the tube pre-amp into the mix. I listenend for about 30 minutes thinking the tubes I was using were not at all to my liking; found out that I hadn't switched the tubed pre into the circuit and I was listening to SS pre. It still sounded excellent but that little extra that tubes seem to add was missing and I thought something just wasn't right.

Tubes add Soul to the music

H9

heiney9

thsmith wrote: »

SS amp can achieve all or those things and are not unique to Tube amps.

Like George said, "tubes exhibit more of warm/organic sound".

No I don;t think so. A great SS amp can come close, but not exact. There are certain natural characteristics of tubes that a transistor, no matter how it's implemented, can duplicate exactly.