Honda S2000 Enthusiast - Feedback requested

thsmith

My son's 2003 Acura RSX Type S was stolen out of our driveway a couple of nights ago.

He is now looking at Honda S2000s. I have checked a couple of sites, S2Ki.com looks pretty good for technical info and I have looked at Consumer Reports.

Looks like a 2004 was a good year for this car.

ANy owners or previous owners here that could provide a dad some helpful info to keep his son from getting a lemon ?

Thanks,

Tracy

concealer404

I haven't heard much bad about these cars other than a few issues with Honda dealership service and a smattering of failed motors.

I think if it hasn't failed already, it'll be fine.

Was 2004 the year they switched to the 2.2 litre? I don't know what his intentions with the car are, but with how short they're geared, the 2.2 litre is actually usually slower around an autox course because it doesn't rev as high as the 2.0 litre, despite having the same power and a slightly broader powerband.

On the same note, the 2.2 is probably easier to live with day to day.

thsmith

Not sure about the engine year change, I will look into that. His intention is a daily driver, no racing.

I am sure we will be modding it but no racing.

concealer404

thsmith wrote: »

Not sure about the engine year change, I will look into that. His intention is a daily driver, no racing.

I am sure we will be modding it but no racing.

Then the 2.2 will probably be better in that aspect. It's still gutless down low, but not horribly slow like the 2.0 litre. Luckily, there's not a gigantic price difference as far as i know.

Is there any reason that he wants the S2000 other than that it's cool?

Honestly, as a fun daily that will be a blast to throw around some twisties on nice weekends, money might be better spent on a Miata, as long as he's not hung up on the "****" stereotype of the Miata. They're tons cheaper, and for the money saved, could easily modify it exactly to his liking.

Polk user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1lCjOgoyEM&feature=player_embedded

exalted512

s2k for a daily driver? I wouldn't.
-Cody

concealer404

exalted512 wrote: »

s2k for a daily driver? I wouldn't.
-Cody

I had a hard time wrapping my head around that one, too, but i don't remember where OP lives, either.

I think a Miata would be more liveable if he HAD to have a 2-seater vert as a DD. The hardtops are cheaper and easier to find, and they aren't near as high strung.

Cars with 120hp/litre n/a aren't typically great daily drivers. Ask me how i know.

heiney9

concealer404 wrote: »

Cars with 120hp/litre n/a aren't typically great daily drivers. Ask me how i know.

I had a '91 GTi with 1.8L 105hp motor and it was a blast as a daily driver. Was it lightening fast stop light to stop light; nope, but it was fun to drive.

concealer404

heiney9 wrote: »

I had a '91 GTi with 1.8L 105hp motor and it was a blast as a daily driver. Was it lightening fast stop light to stop light; nope, but it was fun to drive.

That's about the polar opposite of what i'm talking about.

But yes.... i would kill for a nice clean old GTi. Alas, i already have 3 project cars, sooooooo.

heiney9

Well, my current VR6 GTi w/ 200hp and many mods is a whole more lot fun to drive . .

H9

exalted512

heiney9 wrote: »

I had a '91 GTi with 1.8L 105hp motor and it was a blast as a daily driver. Was it lightening fast stop light to stop light; nope, but it was fun to drive.

That also has room in it.

Buddy of mine bought a s2k not too long ago. He hates that theres no room in it now and wishes he wouldnt have got it.

Another buddy of mine has one as well, top got slashed, stole his GPS....and his factory seats. Supposdely upwards of $4000 to replace.

To me, I would just much rather have a EVO or something along those lines at that price point unless it was going to be used as a track car.
-Cody

exalted512

concealer404 wrote: »

Cars with 120hp/litre n/a aren't typically great daily drivers. Ask me how i know.

how do you know?

My bike has 113 HP / 0.6L at the wheel
-Cody

thsmith

Thanks all. He is 23 and has no interest in the Miata. A daily drive is like 2 miles each way to work and school.

He has has 3 Acura/Hondas and is pretty stuck on those cars.

Really just looking for things that would be key to check out on the AP2 S2000s. I suspect I am too big to get in it and drive, after he sits in it he may not fit either since he is 6'4" and 150pds soaking wet.

Not that it matters but I think the S2000s are 250hp.

H9, I wish I could get him interested in the GTis I think he would enjoy it.

concealer404

heiney9 wrote: »

Well, my current VR6 GTi w/ 200hp and many mods is a whole more lot fun to drive . .

H9

I hate you.

concealer404

thsmith wrote: »

Thanks all. He is 23 and has no interest in the Miata. A daily drive is like 2 miles each way to work and school.

He has has 3 Acura/Hondas and is pretty stuck on those cars.

Really just looking for things that would be key to check out on the AP2 S2000s. I suspect I am too big to get in it and drive, after he sits in it he may not fit either since he is 6'4" and 150pds soaking wet.

Not that it matters but I think the S2000s are 250hp.

They're pretty solid cars...

Pay attention to any tranny grinds, most of these cars are NOT babied, and if driven by someone who doesn't really know what they're doing, the transmission won't last real long.

Also pay attention to the motor. Listen with your head in the engine bay for any lifter tick, or just strange noises in general. Honda K/F-series motors have slightly noisy valvetrains to start with, so it may be difficult to someone not used to them, but lifter tick on a high strung motor like this isn't a great sign.

The rear ends aren't REAL strong, so if they've been abused, you can expect it to go out. Be sure to listen and feel for any strange clunks or hopping.

concealer404

thsmith wrote: »

Thanks all. He is 23 and has no interest in the Miata. A daily drive is like 2 miles each way to work and school.

He has has 3 Acura/Hondas and is pretty stuck on those cars.

Really just looking for things that would be key to check out on the AP2 S2000s. I suspect I am too big to get in it and drive, after he sits in it he may not fit either since he is 6'4" and 150pds soaking wet.

Not that it matters but I think the S2000s are 250hp.

H9, I wish I could get him interested in the GTis I think he would enjoy it.

240hp i believe.

A GTI would be a FAR superior DD. But if he's only driving 2 miles a day, it doesn't REALLY matter. Just make sure that he does take the time to warm up the car.

Jstas

exalted512 wrote: »

how do you know?

My bike has 113 HP / 0.6L at the wheel
-Cody

I have 92.6 HP/Liter and drive mine daily.

That's a silly number anyway.

Horsepower to weight is the better number and I run about 9.4 pounds per horsepower. It's easy to drive daily and I do so.

vc69

heiney9 wrote: »

Well, my current VR6 GTi w/ 200hp and many mods is a whole more lot fun to drive . .

H9

Damn. I'm with concealer. You suck.

concealer404

I was more referring to the high strung characteristics of the engine. Later in life, because the motor is under more stress than normal automobiles, it's pretty likely that it'll be a bit more of a PITA to keep up on.

That said, my 100+hp/litre cars were also strange Honda frankensteins, so that IS a bit different. Definitely no warranty involved in my case.

My current DD makes about 160hp/litre, but that's a bit different as well.

thsmith

concealer404 wrote: »

They're pretty solid cars...

Pay attention to any tranny grinds, most of these cars are NOT babied, and if driven by someone who doesn't really know what they're doing, the transmission won't last real long.

Also pay attention to the motor. Listen with your head in the engine bay for any lifter tick, or just strange noises in general. Honda K/F-series motors have slightly noisy valvetrains to start with, so it may be difficult to someone not used to them, but lifter tick on a high strung motor like this isn't a great sign.

The rear ends aren't REAL strong, so if they've been abused, you can expect it to go out. Be sure to listen and feel for any strange clunks or hopping.

Thanks, those are some of things I have been reading. The one we are looking at is an 04 1 owner always serviced by Honda, owner is a 50 year old couple.

concealer404

thsmith wrote: »

Thanks, those are some of things I have been reading. The one we are looking at is an 04 1 owner always serviced by Honda, owner is a 50 year old couple.

How much is left on the warranty, if anything? I would definitely spend the money if you guys end up getting it to bring it in to the dealership and have them go over it with a fine-toothed comb, and fix even the smallest issues, if any exist.

It sounds like you're definitely looking at the right scenario, though.

exalted512

Jstas wrote: »

I have 92.6 HP/Liter and drive mine daily.

That's a silly number anyway.

Horsepower to weight is the better number and I run about 9.4 pounds per horsepower. It's easy to drive daily and I do so.

agreed...man i want a lightning! Got to drive a couple on a couple different occasions...awesome trucks.

The bike is about 3.5 lbs/hp.
-Cody

nadams

My truck has 40hp/liter. Damn inefficient Ford engines

thsmith

concealer404 wrote: »

How much is left on the warranty, if anything? I would definitely spend the money if you guys end up getting it to bring it in to the dealership and have them go over it with a fine-toothed comb, and fix even the smallest issues, if any exist.

It sounds like you're definitely looking at the right scenario, though.

Good point !

Thanks for the relevant input;)

Jstas

nadams wrote: »

My truck has 40hp/liter. Damn inefficient Ford engines

Mine's a Ford engine too.


But horsepower per liter is no measure of anything except a substitute for genitalia size. It is not a measure of efficiency nor is it even a watermark on the measuring stick of efficiency. It's a just a bogus argument that pops up time after time when some big V8 loving person on the Internet decides to taunt, mock and cut down a small I4 loving person by having a genitalia substitute comparison. It is, admittedly, difficult to beat displacement for reliable power production. The idea behind superchargers, turbochargers and nitrous oxide injection is to artificially increase displacement in a displacement challenged power production unit. Given that, it is difficult to make an argument against large engines for anything but efficiency. And honestly, if you do the actual volumetric calculations, it can be shown that often a small engine is no more efficient than a large engine.

It all inter-relates and it gets very complicated when trying to not only understand but explain the concepts. Because of that, using HP/L as an example of efficiency is grossly over-simplifying it and it creates a false impression let alone lacks the necessary information to adequately explain the concept.

So just because your engine only makes 40 HP/L doesn't mean it's inefficient at all. It doesn't mean anything really. Mainly because, in reality, HP is a derived number and torque is the actual measure of power.

concealer404

Jstas wrote: »

Mine's a Ford engine too.


But horsepower per liter is no measure of anything except a substitute for genitalia size. It is not a measure of efficiency nor is it even a watermark on the measuring stick of efficiency. It's a just a bogus argument that pops up time after time when some big V8 loving person on the Internet decides to taunt, mock and cut down a small I4 loving person by having a genitalia substitute comparison. It is, admittedly, difficult to beat displacement for reliable power production. The idea behind superchargers, turbochargers and nitrous oxide injection is to artificially increase displacement in a displacement challenged power production unit. Given that, it is difficult to make an argument against large engines for anything but efficiency. And honestly, if you do the actual volumetric calculations, it can be shown that often a small engine is no more efficient than a large engine.

It all inter-relates and it gets very complicated when trying to not only understand but explain the concepts. Because of that, using HP/L as an example of efficiency is grossly over-simplifying it and it creates a false impression let alone lacks the necessary information to adequately explain the concept.

So just because your engine only makes 40 HP/L doesn't mean it's inefficient at all. It doesn't mean anything really. Mainly because, in reality, HP is a derived number and torque is the actual measure of power.

Yup. True.

And that's exactly the reason why there's a great deal more stress on a smaller high strung motor trying to generate that same V8-like power, though delivery will be hugely different.

nadams

Yeah, well... my 4.0l only makes 230lb/ft of torque... all in all, I think ford could've done better with this engine. At least it's reliable.

Toxis

concealer404 wrote: »

Then the 2.2 will probably be better in that aspect. It's still gutless down low, but not horribly slow like the 2.0 litre. Luckily, there's not a gigantic price difference as far as i know.

Is there any reason that he wants the S2000 other than that it's cool?

Honestly, as a fun daily that will be a blast to throw around some twisties on nice weekends, money might be better spent on a Miata, as long as he's not hung up on the "****" stereotype of the Miata. They're tons cheaper, and for the money saved, could easily modify it exactly to his liking.

wait... the S2k is horribly slow but the Miata is your recommendation? Wow. I am a huge fan of the S2k and would love to own one as a sunday driver but with the weather of KS, I couldn't daily drive it. I have owned lowered Hondas for almost a decade so the rough ride is not an issue to me. Not sure how old your son is but is he capable of handling a RWD, high RPM monster? To say it's slow is a joke IMO. Sure it's not as fast off the line as a WRX or Mustang but it's a highway machine. Get it out in the open and it's damn fast. Hell, even the 1/4 is in the mid 14's with a good driver. The 2.2 motor is better midrange power than the 2.0 but it doesn't rev as high (8k vs 9k). It's also a HELL of a lot more expensive to modify than an RSX/Civic. Hope this helps some... otherwise, S2ki is a great resource. I have a couple friends with S2k's and have participated in an S2ki meet so it's a really cool group of people.

BottomFeeder

Might be too late to the party, but I recently got a MINI Cooper S for my daily driver & man oh man is it a blast to drive!

thsmith

Toxis wrote: »

wait... the S2k is horribly slow but the Miata is your recommendation? Wow. I am a huge fan of the S2k and would love to own one as a sunday driver but with the weather of KS, I couldn't daily drive it. I have owned lowered Hondas for almost a decade so the rough ride is not an issue to me. Not sure how old your son is but is he capable of handling a RWD, high RPM monster? To say it's slow is a joke IMO. Sure it's not as fast off the line as a WRX or Mustang but it's a highway machine. Get it out in the open and it's damn fast. Hell, even the 1/4 is in the mid 14's with a good driver. The 2.2 motor is better midrange power than the 2.0 but it doesn't rev as high (8k vs 9k). It's also a HELL of a lot more expensive to modify than an RSX/Civic. Hope this helps some... otherwise, S2ki is a great resource. I have a couple friends with S2k's and have participated in an S2ki meet so it's a really cool group of people.

Thanks Toxis for a relevant response.

I agree the S2K will cost more to modify but at this point my son most likely will not add any performance parts since the last 2 cars he had stolen had $3-K worth of suspension and motor enchancements and the insurance does not repay for those parts unless they find the car and those parts are missing.

concealer404

Toxis wrote: »

wait... the S2k is horribly slow but the Miata is your recommendation? Wow. I am a huge fan of the S2k and would love to own one as a sunday driver but with the weather of KS, I couldn't daily drive it. I have owned lowered Hondas for almost a decade so the rough ride is not an issue to me. Not sure how old your son is but is he capable of handling a RWD, high RPM monster? To say it's slow is a joke IMO. Sure it's not as fast off the line as a WRX or Mustang but it's a highway machine. Get it out in the open and it's damn fast. Hell, even the 1/4 is in the mid 14's with a good driver. The 2.2 motor is better midrange power than the 2.0 but it doesn't rev as high (8k vs 9k). It's also a HELL of a lot more expensive to modify than an RSX/Civic. Hope this helps some... otherwise, S2ki is a great resource. I have a couple friends with S2k's and have participated in an S2ki meet so it's a really cool group of people.

Ah ah ah... read what i posted lol. The 2.0 is horribly slow until it hits that magic VTAK range. That motor has no low end power whatsoever. That said, i'd PERSONALLY prefer a 2.0 S2000.

I never said that the car was slow.