Another controversial lawsuit....

Systems

I don't know, yeah its a tragedy and I feel for the parents but......

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_092384f6-c3eb-11de-8110-001cc4c03286.html

Pycroft

Thank God the truth has come out...if you hit a projectile with an aluminum bat, it will move fast. Will there be warning signs on each individual bat that say this? My God...what happened to common sense?

exalted512

ridiculous
-Cody

wutadumsn23

I agree it is a tragedy that they lost their son, but I played baseball for the better part of 12 years when I was younger and nobody had to tell me that the ball was going to be coming at me pretty darn fast. Esp. the pitcher, I played first base and wound up with a few baseballs in my glove, without even knowing the ball had been hit to me. At 18 years old, those boys can put a pretty big hurtin on that baseball, I know I did.

-Jeff

Systems

Pycroft wrote: »

Thank God the truth has come out...if you hit a projectile with an aluminum bat, it will move fast. Will there be warning signs on each individual bat that say this? My God...what happened to common sense?

Well the coach and support personal for the team should have known this, but, do you think the speed difference between the two bats from the box to the mound would have been enough for him to react to catching it....

everpress

I think they should put warnings on individual bites of food with a court-approved waiver that I must sign so that I am fully aware of the risk I am taking of the possibility of choking on it and will not hold the company that produced the food, the people that prepared the food, as well as the silerware and cutlery companies responsible for assisting me in cutting the food liable for the dangerous act of eating.

bobman1235

Lorthos wrote: »

Well the coach and support personal for the team should have known this, but, do you think the speed difference between the two bats from the box to the mound would have been enough for him to react to catching it....

Time for math!

The distance from the plate to the mound is 60.5 ft.

Typical numbers most often quoted are that wood bats hit balls with maximum speeds of 93-mph while metal bats hit balls with speeds of 100-123 mph.

Given those numbers, and using the extremes, a 93mph line drive would hit the pitcher's mound in .44s.

(93mph = 136.4ft/s; 60.5 ft / 136.4 ft/s = .44s)

A 123 mph line drive would hit the pitcher's mound in .335s (same math as above).

Percentage-wise it's a significant difference, but in real-world numbers I wonder if .11s is that much of a difference in reactions.

Here's a great essay / study on this very issue : http://paws.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats-new/ban-safety.html

sucks2beme

And would a normal bat breaking and a piece injuring someone also be a problem? Cleats, spikes, clubs, bats sticks, all dangerous weapons waiting
for some lawyer to come along. DANGER- swinging, throwing or dropping
this device in a careless manner could cause injury?

apphd

sucks2beme wrote: »

And would a normal bat breaking and a piece injuring someone also be a problem? Cleats, spikes, clubs, bats sticks, all dangerous weapons waiting
for some lawyer to come along. DANGER- swinging, throwing or dropping
this device in a careless manner could cause injury?

Exactly. Life has inherent dangers in it. Because we do something 1,000,000 times without even a close call does not mean the next time will be the same. As we add activities of pleasure and work into the picture we add risk, however small we do it all the time. I would bet, someone has been severely injured or killed under the same circumstances with a pitch hit by a wooden bat, as well as a broken wooden bat. I too feel for the family, but these lawsuits hurt us all in the long run, all the while feeding the lawyers. Not that there are not legitimate negligence lawsuits, I just don't think this is one. my $.02

Face

The rest of the family should be beaten with bats.

hockeyboy

I think these people were grief stricken and just looking for someone to blame for a freak accident. They get an award because the jury is responding to their terrible loss and has pity for them. The truth is where I used to play baseball they didn't allow aluminum bats which is the direction most youth leagues have gone to my knowledge.

shack

I coached girl’s fastpitch softball for many years. The distances are much shorter than baseball. The bases are only 60' and 1st and 3rd usually play 10'-15' inside the bag because of the nature of the game. The pitcher starts out at 35'-40' but ends up less than 30' after delivery. I have seen girls hit...and it is scary. The aluminum bats were getting a great deal of "trampoline effect" in the late 90s with thin multiple layer bats. The balls were solid core (almost like golf balls) which made it even faster. The various governing bodies started regulating the COR (coefficient of restitution - or the speed ratio at which an object rebounds after impact) down for bats and balls. It helped some but not enough to prevent injury. I made my pitchers wear heart guards and recommended they wear a protective mask as well. I told every parent the risk of getting hit and allowed any player to wear whatever protective gear they wanted. I was glad when my daughter decided to quit pitching because she preferred volleyball.

I understand what the parents are going through. However, I don't think they could have gone through all the years (he was 18) of having their son play baseball and not understand the risks. The dangers of the aluminum bats was well documented long before 2003. They must assume some of the risks for allowing their son to play given those risks. The lawsuit is too much...especially when they are still considering punitive damages.

On another note...I also sympathize with what they are trying to do. I do think the desire for improved performance of the equipment has gone too far and needs to be throttled way back for youth sports. They need less COR to give them more reaction time and better protection

steveinaz

Tragedy? Yes. Frivilous Lawsuit? YES.

Sports involve risks, if you as a parent are not willing to accept the risk, then don't allow them to participate. Using the parents frame of thinking, they should be held liable for allowing their child to play a "dangerous" sport, right? If we're going to be rediculous, we may as well go all the way with it.

Groundless lawsuits are destroying this country.

I was on a jury for a murder case last year, probably 7 out of the 13 jurors didn't have a lick of common sense; absolute morons, and we wonder why these judgements hold up.

Face

steveinaz wrote: »

I was on a jury for a murder case last year, probably 7 out of the 13 jurors didn't have a lick of common sense; absolute morons, and we wonder why these judgements hold up.

Unfortunately, those are the kind of people who usually love jury duty. I'd pay not to go.

steveinaz

It was actually a very fascinating experience. The judicial process is very good right up until you introduce a human idiot into the mix.

Sami

Face wrote: »

The rest of the family should be beaten with bats.

The question is, were they looking for money or were they looking for publicity against the use of aluminium bats?

From the article:

The teen's mother, Debbie Patch, was stunned by the verdict. The family rejoiced and cried as the verdict was read.

"We never expected it," she said. "We just hoped we could get the truth out for more people to see."

Patch said she hopes the decision will make more people aware of the dangers associated with aluminum bats and that more youth leagues will switch to using wooden bats.

"We just want to save someone else's life," Patch said.

Jim Shearer

Just to add perspective and bring in a music angle:

One of the albums I really enjoy is a Royal Philharmonic Orchestra performance of Ralph Vaughan Williams "The Wasps." Based on Aristophanes' play, a satirical view of the legal system of the time. One of the characters is a man who brings his own dog to trial for stealing cheese; the dog needs the help of kitchen utensils to defend himself.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Cheers, Jim

F1nut

I hope that one gets overturned, ridiculous.

exalted512

steveinaz wrote: »

I was on a jury for a murder case last year, probably 7 out of the 13 jurors didn't have a lick of common sense; absolute morons, and we wonder why these judgements hold up.

Its because the people on a jury are the only ones dumb enough not to be able to get out of it:p
-Cody

steveinaz

It brings to light the other problem; the very people who **** about our juicial system are usually the ones laying on the excuses to the judge as to why they can't serve. So whats left? A few that give a damn, and the rest are idiots.

gtu2004

Sami wrote: »

The question is, were they looking for money or were they looking for publicity against the use of aluminium bats?

From the article:

they can say anything to justify for the money they get

Jstas

Lasareath wrote: »

I bet all bat manufactures will have warnings now.

Yeah and all the Louisville Sluggers are going to look stupid with 19 paragraphs of disclaimers burned in to the sides.

vc69

steveinaz wrote: »

It was actually a very fascinating experience. The judicial process is very good right up until you introduce a human idiot into the mix.

Lol... at what point is that NOT in play?

steveinaz wrote: »

It brings to light the other problem; the very people who **** about our juicial system are usually the ones laying on the excuses to the judge as to why they can't serve. So whats left? A few that give a damn, and the rest are idiots.

Good point.

exalted512

steveinaz wrote: »

It brings to light the other problem; the very people who **** about our juicial system are usually the ones laying on the excuses to the judge as to why they can't serve. So whats left? A few that give a damn, and the rest are idiots.

and thats America.
-Cody

ryanjoachim

New warning labels:

Aluminum bats: "Warning: Objects hit with enough force by this bat can travel fast!"

Baseballs: "Warning: DUCK!"

SolidSqual

God, this reminds me of Product Liability Law classes. Did you know the makers of Faberge' perfume were made to pay damages after a group of bored teenagers who were having a make-out fest, decided the mood required scented candles and subsequently took an unscented candle, opened the bottle of perfume, poored it on the candle and were burned from the resulting flash explosion.

Or what about the guys and gals who sued Budweiser for being pain and suffering resulting from Beer advertising that encouraged them to drink too much and become alcholics.

There are so many great law suits by morons.

shack

The amount awarded and way of going about it is wrong...but bringing up the issue is not a bad thing IMO.

The stuff kids are using today isn't the same as when most of their parents played. There needs to be better understanding of what the physics of this gear means to the safety of their kids. A lot of what has gone on in baseball/softball equipment is all about the "wow" factor (much like golf) so the ball can be hit harder and farther with less effort and/or skill. There is a lot of difference between a chunk of aluminum made into a slug of a bat and a multi-layered, thin walled springboard that is being used. Toward the end of my kids playing days some of the close calls scared the **** out of me. I would really like to see a little less technology in the games, especially if it improves the safety for the kids.

I know the sports governing bodies are really trying to slow things down but it is hard because...as we all know...

Chicks dig the long ball...

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sTiLlLeArNiNg

Gotta love America! The land of opportunity

Face

Sami wrote: »

The question is, were they looking for money or were they looking for publicity against the use of aluminium bats?

From the article:

Now that the word is out, she should give the money back.

Serendipity

WTH is this??? Ridiculous!

madmax

sucks2beme wrote: »

Cleats, spikes, clubs, bats sticks, all dangerous weapons waiting
for some lawyer to come along. DANGER- swinging, throwing or dropping
this device in a careless manner could cause injury?

They shouldn't let people take such dangerous things onto a sports field!