What is the most effective way to eliminate HISS

nooshinjohn

I am looking to reduce or eliminate hiss from my turntable at reference volume levels and am clueless as to what would be the best way. I have made no adjustments or tweaks yet so all suggestions will be helpful.

I have a Yamaha PX-3 turntable paired up with a Parasound Z-Phono pre. The cartridge is the stock Yamaha mc-705, and is in great shape. I know Darqueknight has some experience with these tables so perhaps he can weigh in here as well. Any help will be greatly appreciated.:)

BlueFox

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I am looking to reduce or eliminate hiss from my turntable at reference volume levels and am clueless as to what would be the best way. I have made no adjustments or tweaks yet so all suggestions will be helpful.

I do not know, but have some questions. Are you saying the hiss occurs if the turntable is selected on the pre-amp, but a record is not playing? If so does it occur on other inputs, or just the turntable? I have dealt with turntable hum in the past, but not hiss. To me, hiss implies an electrical component problem, not a wiring or grounding issue.

I think I will stick with jitter.

Dawgfish

There are a few things you can do to reduce hiss. I assume you are talking about background noise on the record and not other system setup problems like BlueFox was alluding to? First and formost is to thouroughly clean your record before playing. This is probably the greatest thing you can do to reduce background noice. I have also had good luck with the Herbie's turntable mat to reduce background noise. That mat has made a big difference in background noise for the better (with or without a clamp, but it does seem to damping more with a clamp). Different cartridges are known to have more or less background noise, so your cart could be a factor also. I know you said the yamie cart is in great shape, but how old is it? Like I said some carts can transmit considerably more background noise than others, it may be worth experimenting with a different cart. Also I read recently on here that turntable set-up is a big factor in background noise and you can actually adjust the turntable to move background noise to the foreground and not as much up front and center. Also, if your phono stage has adjustable gain, you may want to try backing off on the gain a little bit.

thsmith

Keiko wrote: »

Why not enjoy the best of both worlds? Vinyl can be rewarding and often times better than digital, IMO.

+1, takes a lot of money to make digital sound almost as good as vinyl, IMO.

Systems

Hiss has almost always been a gain issue for me. Also I swapped cables around and that too reduced the hiss. Since I now use a Rogue Stealth that has been modded with the magnum upgrades and a set of AQ Copperhead cables I have almost no hiss at all. I have to place my ear up to and almost touching the tweeter to hear any kind of hiss at all. Your catridge can also be a factor if not set-up properly. Different cartidges require different gain settings on your preamp. Play around with your gain settings and cables and see if this helps. But be sure that your cartridge is set-up properly first.

steveinaz

I had a Yamaha PX-3 back in the day, nice TT. Sorry for the derail.

Hawkeye

thsmith wrote: »

+1, takes a lot of money to make digital sound almost as good as vinyl, IMO.

Isn't it the other way around?:D

Gordon

cnh

Don't know what you're refering to John....but to others...have you seen the 50K+ turntables??? Now that's cheap!

cnh

lightman1

Just plug the hole in the innertube....hiss be gone.

nooshinjohn

The hiss I speak of is present in through my speakers at all times when I am listening to my turntable, and I agree it is probably gain related. It just seems to be more prominent than I remember is all. I have never needed a phono-pre in the past and I am thinking that it is the most likely cause. Will swithing to a high output MC cartridge like the Denon Dl103r or Dl160 help? This will allow me to eliminate the Phono-pre and use the internal one on my TGP-5.

lightman1

John... I chased the hiss all around my turntable. And then one day, I realised I could not make it go away. Because it was just in the recording.
Go with the music... and just maybe your audio journey will be a bit shorter.

nooshinjohn

the sound is present even when the table is not playing a record... so I think it must be gain related.

tonyb

nooshinjohn wrote: »

the sound is present even when the table is not playing a record... so I think it must be gain related.

Now your getting somewhere....is it a hum or a hiss ? Not familiar with the yammie,but alot of the older tables had a ground wire. Check the connection and dial back the gain as others have suggested. Also if the cart is as old as the table,time for an upgrade.

reeltrouble1

well, if the Sunfire offers true balanced connections you can start there, but with your gear I suspect there may always be some hiss, your phone pre is set properly if it has the capability?????? are you saying although not playing you have the processor set to phono??? do you get hiss with other inputs at the same gain.......

RT1

billbillw

Is that Yammie cart a low output MC? If so, I'd either invest in a quieter phono preamp or a higher output cartridge. The Parasound phono pre is not a bad unit, but like most inexpensive phono stages, they are noisy when set to MC. Another alternative would be to use transformers to up the signal instead of the MC setting. MC carts have lower output voltage, but higher current. This can be transformed and used with a lower gain (MM) phono input. Good transformers are not cheap though. Lundahl are probably the most economical.
http://www.kandkaudio.com/phonostage.html

nooshinjohn

I use the tape input on my Sunfire as the phono input is not able to handle low output cartridges. The Parasound has no gain adjustment. It is most definately a hissing sound, and the ground is properly secured to the phono pre. Will swithing to a high output MC cartridge like the Denon Dl103r or Dl160 help? This will allow me to eliminate the Phono-pre and use the internal one on my TGP-5.

reeltrouble1

does your cd player input hiss at the same gain setting when you choose its input or do you not have one hooked up?? To me it is starting to sound like the cartridge/phono pre/pre is not optimal, I will see if I can google your specs, MadMax is the TT guru though. As said already though by bill if you are using a low output cart. with the parasound I dunno, you can do the step-up transformer thing, but are you sure it does not have a MM and a MC setting, with the gear you have maybe a MM cartridge, the Clearaudio ones are highly regarded. You know I am a strong supporter of seperates including phono-pre's but your idea about using the Sunfire with at least some kind of higher output cartridge may be something to consider, why are you using the tape loop are you recording somewhere?? or just out of inputs?? Of course like most years ago I used the loop to a cassette recorder then a vcr but just wondered as the circuit is a bit different than the standard input. BTW recording an album to a vcr tape actually sounds pretty good..........but of course old tech, but them I am an old guy.

RT1

nooshinjohn

I do not do any recording, and I do have a cd player on that input already. The tape input seemed the best choice, but I will try a different input and see if that helps. I too am leaning towards a mismatch between the cartridge and the phono-pre...

billbillw

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I use the tape input on my Sunfire as the phono input is not able to handle low output cartridges. The Parasound has no gain adjustment. It is most definately a hissing sound, and the ground is properly secured to the phono pre. Will swithing to a high output MC cartridge like the Denon Dl103r or Dl160 help? This will allow me to eliminate the Phono-pre and use the internal one on my TGP-5.

Yes, but unless you know the internal phono stage is as good or better than the Parasound, you won't be gaining anything (and may be loosing something). Typically, the phono stage in modern HT oriented pre/pros/receivers is not that good. They are usually an afterthought. I don't know much about that sunfire, but I suspect it will not be as good as the Zphono.

billbillw

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I do not do any recording, and I do have a cd player on that input already. The tape input seemed the best choice, but I will try a different input and see if that helps. I too am leaning towards a mismatch between the cartridge and the phono-pre...

Not really a mismatch, but you are just expecting too much out of an inexpensive phono stage.

nooshinjohn

ok... moving the turntable to different inputs had no effect, and the ground connections are all good. I switched cables, and also had no effect. The issue seems to reside within the Z-phono. It has no adjustment for gain output., but when I moved the switch on the z-phono from M/C to M/M the hiss went away.
Should I consider switching to a M/M cartridge or can I go with a high output M/C cartridge? My understanding is that my TGP-5 has a decent phono stage built in, which would allow me to dump the z-phono...

billbillw

My guess is that even the cheapest external phono stage is probably going to be better than what is in the TGP-5. That's just my experience with gear that is aimed at HT use. I've seen flagship receivers with a single tiny board for the phono stage. Its just not a priority for the designers, Sunfire included.

I'd try a different cart or get transformers. MM or high output MC will both work with the Z-phono.

nooshinjohn

Thanks for the help guys.... I am looking at cartridges now...

reeltrouble1

clearaudio Aurum Series
graham
dynavector

have fun

RT1

Systems

Your cart puts out about .30mv and your Zphono has a gain of 61db for MC carts.

Just for fun try this:
Put an album on to play
At the same time have a CD playing in the CDP
Set the volume level at a somewhat normal listening level
Switch back and forth from the TT to the CDP and note the volume changes between the 2

If the TT is noticeably louder you have a gain issue right away. BUT, if there isn't a louder volume on the TT this doesn't mean that you don't have a good relationship between your cart and phono pre. I try and find a gain setting close to what the volume is for my CDP compared to my TT. My second system uses an Ortofon Kontrpunkt A with an output of .45mv and I think I use a gain of 50db on my phono pre. I'm also using a Rogue Stealth with the magnum upgrades in that rig with no noise/hiss issues.

Krazyz1

Is your plug polarized? If not insert it in outlet 180. My carvers are NOT polarized and there IS a sound difference wich way it's plugged in. 2nd example. My Crown Macro reference amp had a hiss. It even had a ground lift switch on the back. That didn't make it go away. What did make it go away was using a 2 prong cheater plug before plugging it in to my A.R.T. PS 4X4 PRO power conditioner. 2 last suggestions. Systimaticaly try a cheater plug on any equipt. with 3 prongs. Lastly get some crimp on fork or ring terminals and a single strand of old speaker wire and daisy chain the cabinets together. Previous post sound like they are on top of the situation but thought atleast I would try to help.

danger boy

you may want to look for another cartridge and up the ante there... maybe one with a higher output. that may help you.