annual credit card fee? WTH?

Demiurge

If you're not a total idiot in an age where it's FREE to pay right from your computer by way of your checking or savings account, how on earth are you ever late on a payment unless you're living beyond your means? If you don't like the fee, pay on time. If you think you're gonna be late, don't use a credit card to buy stuff.

Why is this so hard?

PhantomOG

See you keep arguing against credit cards but your only arguments are for people who can't responsibly pay their credit cards off every month. If you live paycheck to paycheck, yeah, you shouldn't be using credit cards. There's probably alot of other things you shouldn't be doing as well.

This is my statement. If you pay off your credit cards every month, they are a much better choice for use than debit cards. PERIOD. Nothing you have said goes against that. You simply keep trying to go against the main stipulation.

Rewards? Absolutely. My main Chase daily spender nets me 5% cash back on gas, groceries, and drug store purchases. Drug stores and grocery stores sell gift cards to alot of brick and mortar stores, and even places like Amazon.com. I've netted THOUSANDS of dollars in cash back over the past several years that I've had this card.

On top of the fact that I get benefits like rental car insurance, warranty extensions on eligible purchases, better fraud protection. Hell, some cards even offer price guarantees.

PhantomOG

Demiurge wrote: »

Why is this so hard?

Because in this country, if you F up, its always someone else's fault. :rolleyes:

steveinaz

I was an IDIOT once, yep, lost a statement--got distracted and the payment ended up 3 days late (on a 7 day grace period). I had no beef with the associated late fee, absolutely my fault. This happened prior to the availability of paying on-line.

I think you 2 guys just must be a little bit better than me, therefore my opinion shouldn't count. Honestly, I can't even remotely relate to either of you--and I gotta say I'm happy about that.

danger boy

but now they are saying.. if you have good credit, pay your bills on time, etc, etc.. but close your credit card account... you might be damaging your credit. WTF? close one account and it hurts my credit? Why???

steveinaz

PhantomOG wrote: »

Because in this country, if you F up, its always someone else's fault. :rolleyes:

How is always making your payment on time, paying more than required "F'ing up" exactly?

Stop trying to put your spin on this---again, I'm addressing cc customers whose accounts are in good standing.

Ethics, either you get it, or you don't. It doesn't really matter to me.

danger boy

i bet.. just you wait and see.. credit card companies will next try and charge your for mailing you a monthly statement.. just wait. i can see it coming now. :mad:

steveinaz

danger boy wrote: »

but now they are saying.. if you have good credit, pay your bills on time, etc, etc.. but close your credit card account... you might be damaging your credit. WTF? close one account and it hurts my credit? Why???

Because my brother, it's all in the lawyer-speak, 9 pages of fine print...

But I'm sure we're idiots for not retaining a lawyer before signing our credit card applications.

WilliamM2

danger boy wrote: »

i bet.. just you wait and see.. credit card companies will next try and charge your for mailing you a monthly statement.. just wait. i can see it coming now. :mad:

Maybe, or they could offer paperless billing as an incentive. My electric coop offers a $1 a month discount for paying online, and not mailing me a statement.

Demiurge

steveinaz wrote: »

I was an IDIOT once, yep, lost a statement--got distracted and the payment ended up 3 days late (on a 7 day grace period). I had no beef with the associated late fee, absolutely my fault.

Good to see you took responsibility for it. The credit card companies aren't above making mistakes, either.

steveinaz wrote: »

This happened prior to the availability of paying on-line.

It hasn't always been available to me, either.

I made sure I mailed my check well before (10 days usually) it was due. Even if you mailed it the day your statement came in, it was still better than cash if you're getting cash back or other perks for using the card.

steveinaz wrote: »

I think you 2 guys just must be a little bit better than me, therefore my opinion shouldn't count. Honestly, I can't even remotely relate to either of you--and I gotta say I'm happy about that.

Better than you? :rolleyes: I still don't know what your problem is. Do you have a credit card? If you do, do you pay the balance off in full every month? If so, how can you not relate? If not, why aren't you paying the balance off in full every month? Are you living paycheck to paycheck? If you are, cancel your damn cards and don't use one until you have enough cash to cover any purchases you might make.

If I want a new pair of speakers I don't buy them unless I have the cash in the bank to cover the payment and then some.

shack

danger boy wrote:

but now they are saying.. if you have good credit, pay your bills on time, etc, etc.. but close your credit card account... you might be damaging your credit. WTF? close one account and it hurts my credit? Why???

The amount of unused AVAILABLE credit is a component of the credit score as long as it is not too high as is the amount available vs the amount outstanding ratio. Closing an account lowers both of those factors which could lower your score.

Demiurge

steveinaz wrote: »

How is always making your payment on time, paying more than required "F'ing up" exactly?

Stop trying to put your spin on this---again, I'm addressing cc customers whose accounts are in good standing.

Ethics, either you get it, or you don't. It doesn't really matter to me.

Ethics? Oh my, don't make me laugh.

NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO USE CREDIT CARDS!

Goddamn.

WilliamM2

steveinaz wrote: »

Get real. Make a late payment on that CC, there will be a fee, just like overdrafting a debit card. Interest? Non existent with a debit card, now, have hard month and have to carry that CC balance---interest due. Of course I gather you never have a hard month, because you are responsible. Only the irresponsible fall on hard times.

It's really a simple concept. If you don't have the money in the bank, don't charge it to your card.

Rewards? you're not serious are you?

Why not? I've been paid over $200 this year for using my card. How much have you got from using the debit card?

The other nice benefit he forgot to mention is doubling the warranty on anything I buy with the card. Not bad at all.

shack

IMO a credit card is a tool, just like a hammer or a chain saw...

Use it the right way and be careful...it can be very helpful and productive. Use it the wrong way (even with good intentions) and it can be disastrous. And even when using it the right way...**** happens and pain and/or damage can occur.

NotaSuv

shack wrote: »

The amount of unused AVAILABLE credit is a component of the credit score as long as it is not too high as is the amount available vs the amount outstanding ratio. Closing an account lowers both of those factors which could lower your score.

Bingo.......had a good friend who was 15K in debt, no job, etc etc....got all caught up paid everything off cancelled 3 cards and ended up having his credit score drop over 150 points....cant even get the same cards he cancelled... due to his low credit score

steveinaz

WilliamM2 wrote: »

It's really a simple concept. If you don't have the money in the bank, don't charge it to your card..

ya think? :rolleyes:

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Why not? I've been paid over $200 this year for using my card. How much have you got from using the debit card?

Not a cent, and didn't pay a cent in interest either. By all means, credit card away my man. You obviously have a good working knowledge of how to benefit from their use; problem is, most don't.

steveinaz

Demiurge wrote: »

Ethics? Oh my, don't make me laugh.

NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO USE CREDIT CARDS!

Goddamn.

Doesn't apply to me, I have no credit debt.

Polk user

steveinaz wrote: »

It has close to nothing to do with responsibility and/or discipline. Right now credit card companies are targeting even their excellent customers (I know, I AM one). Fortunately for me, I have the means to deal with it---many others don't.

If everyone had the means to pay off an ccount at the drop of a hat, we wouldn't even be talking about this topic--If you can't see that some of this crap they are pulling is pure ****, you are blind. Tell me why my interest rate should climb an additional 14.9% on an account that I have for the last 6 years paid quadruple the minimum payments on, with not a single instance of being late or otherwise compromising what I agreed to? If I'm a credit risk, how the hell can I afford to make quadruple amount payments? It's crap, pure and simple.

Because Bawney Fwank said so. This is just part of the wealth redistribution B.S. Bawney said the banks and CC companies were unfair and racist since poor people pay a higher rate on average. So he changed the rules and now your gonna pay higher rates also. That is the only way the CC companies can stay in business and make a profit.

WilliamM2

steveinaz wrote: »

ya think? :rolleyes:

Not a cent, and didn't pay a cent in interest either. By all means, credit card away my man.

Apparently you still don't get it, I haven't paid any interest either, in over 15 years. And I get money back for using it.

I don't know how in the world you can claim that even if paying the balance off every month, that a debit card is better.

Demiurge

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Apparently you still don't get it, I haven't paid any interest either, in over 15 years. And I get money back for using it.

I don't know how in the world you can claim that even if paying the balance off every month, that a debit card is better.

No, he doesn't get it. He thinks we're all carrying a balance that generates interest charges....He doesn't get that we pay our cards off in full every month and don't pay one red cent in interest. He doesn't get that by doing that, you actually make money.

cstmar01

shack wrote: »

The amount of unused AVAILABLE credit is a component of the credit score as long as it is not too high as is the amount available vs the amount outstanding ratio. Closing an account lowers both of those factors which could lower your score.

Correct. Also the other thing to look at is if you close out a lot of your older cards as well and then go get newer cards, this makes you look like you just started up your credit history and that is a deterant in lending. I probably shouldn't say this but seeing I work in the banking industry and see what people do to their credit every day I work, a lot of people are not wise, they will rack up so much money in debt and then not be able to afford things they need such as a house, or food.

It comes down to if your responsible, know how to budget and if you do need to make a larger purchase and want to pay over a bit of time, than fine a credit card is a tool to help you build credit so that you can get better rates on things in the long term such as a car loan or mortgage.

However if you rack up so much debt on one that you can't even pay the simple things, then yes you do get your self in trouble, and regardless of the amount of fees you would be paying out, they are making a KILLING off of the interest you are paying them.

I'm not saying that anyone here is right or wrong, but this is just a simple way that I look at it, and trust me I have to look at it all day long.

Demiurge

steveinaz wrote: »

Doesn't apply to me, I have no credit debt.

So what are you whining about? If you don't like credit cards and don't use them, what's your beef?

I don't have any credit card debt either and I actually make money using the cards.

tcrossma

steveinaz wrote: »

Incorrect. A debit card is a bank card tied directly to your checking/savings account (at least mine is). There is no interest rate as all transactions are withdrawn on the spot. Totally different from a credit card.

I wasn't talking about interest rate anywhere in my response? I was talking only about protection. Debit cards have none. I was then saying that credit cards can be a very useful tool if used correctly, and very harmful if used incorrectly.

Ron-P

I got an invite for the VISA Black Card (guessing it's like the Amex Black Card). Super CS, no limit,...etc. How much per year, $499. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

steveinaz

Demiurge wrote: »

No, he doesn't get it. He thinks we're all carrying a balance that generates interest charges....He doesn't get that we pay our cards off in full every month and don't pay one red cent in interest. He doesn't get that by doing that, you actually make money.

Yes, I realize you pay off the full balance every month and dont pay any interest on your credit card. Again, the discussion is in reference to the targeting of good customers, to pay bad customer debt.

I think I see the confusion, you believe that if someone carries a balance on a credit card, they get what they deserve for being so damn dumb...am I right?

Demiurge

steveinaz wrote: »

I think I see the confusion, you believe that if someone carries a balance on a credit card, they get what they deserve for being so damn dumb...am I right?

So damn dumb? I don't know if it's stupidity as much as ignorance. I wouldn't carry a balance on a credit card because I know they will try and stick you with high interest rates as well as fees for late payments. However, if I did, I would make sure to pay at least the minimum every month and I damn sure wouldn't be late. So yeah, you get what you deserve.

If you buy something and plan on paying for it over several months you're taking an unwise risk.

PhantomOG

There's a big difference between having empathy for someone going through a rough time, and complaining about credit card companies that allow people going through rough times to live beyond their means.

Not paying your balance in full every month is no different than gambling. You're betting that you'll run into better times and have the brains to pay off that debt before the company decides to screw you.

steveinaz

How long do you think it will be before the days of paying off your full balance to avoid a finance charge will still be around? What sentence in the 9 page teeny-tiny print of your "new agreement" on the back of your latest statement do you think you'll find that warning/opt-out (if even an option)?

To me, credit cards aren't worth the effort.

shack

I think if you carry a balance on your credit card for non-emergency items...then yes it is dumb. It means you are spending beyond your ability to repay. I also have no problem with credit for so called big ticket items (like A/V gear ) IF you set it up on a fixed rate payment schedule with the merchant or a 90 day to 12 month "same as cash-no interest" deal and pay it off before the maturity date. Even with emergencies you can usually set up payments...especially doctors and hospitals. Home repair...most companies will work with you on payments if you have decent credit. Auto repair is a little different, but generally one should have some emergency fund for things like that before you are spending money you don't have by putting it on a credit card.

If people are having to live off of credit card funds...then they have far greater problems than an increase in rate or a change in terms. It is my long term experience that in general, people who have resorted to CCs as a way to survive day to day will ultimately default on the debt or go bankrupt.

PhantomOG

So now credit cards are bad not because of what they are currently doing, but because of what you are afraid of them doing in the future? How far can you stretch this argument?

If and when the terms of my credit cards become disagreeable with me, I will close them. Until that day, I will accept every dollar and benefit they give me.

If you are responsible, credit cards are a valuable tool. If you are not responsible, they can get you into a lot of trouble. You still have a problem with that statement?