Lsi 25 speakers questions.. Please help

phuongmle

HELLO, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION

RIGHT NOW ,

I HAVE DENON 5805 RECEIVER 170 WATT X 7

LSI25 SPEKAKERS AND LSIC CENTER

2 PSW1000 SUBWOOFER

I'M ADDING
Monster Home Theater® Signature Series™ Music Reference Two Channel Power Amplifier WHICH 250 WATT X 2 CHANNAL

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1902

WILL IT SOUND BETTER? MORE POWERFUL? WILL LSI25 HANDLE WITH NO PROBLEMS?

THANKS

PHUONG LE

Bernal

phuongmle wrote: »

HELLO, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION

RIGHT NOW ,

I HAVE DENON 5805 RECEIVER 170 WATT X 7

LSI25 SPEKAKERS AND LSIC CENTER

2 PSW1000 SUBWOOFER

I'M ADDING
Monster Home Theater® Signature Series™ Music Reference Two Channel Power Amplifier WHICH 250 WATT X 2 CHANNAL

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1902

WILL IT SOUND BETTER? MORE POWERFUL? WILL LSI25 HANDLE WITH NO PROBLEMS?

THANKS

PHUONG LE

Welcome.
LSi25 are tested at 4 ohms speakers
Your amplifier is 400 w at 4 ohms.
Is recommended.
Denon 5805 as pre amplifier an excellent choice.
Enjoy.

---

01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
04) OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player w/SACD & DVD-Audio / DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)

phuongmle

Thanks for your reply

I'm have one quick dump question..

Right now, i don't know if my speakers using 4 omhs or 8 omhs? how do I check/ thanks

I'm using denon 5805, does it automated changing to 4 ohms or I have manually change to 4 ohms.

Phuong

nooshinjohn

All LSi's are 4 ohm designs. Get an external amp as recievers typically have a tough time with 4ohm loads. Welcome to CP!

Bernal

phuongmle wrote: »

Thanks for your reply

I'm have one quick dump question..

Right now, i don't know if my speakers using 4 omhs or 8 omhs? how do I check/ thanks

I'm using denon 5805, does it automated changing to 4 ohms or I have manually change to 4 ohms.

Phuong

LSi25/LSiC/LSi9/LSi7/LSif/x are all 4 ohms.
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/lsi/specs.php

Denon 5805 has no change at 4 ohms
http://denon.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/denon.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php?p_sid=xIPhBZKj

Can I use 4 ohm loudspeakers with my Denon receiver or power amplifier?

Question
Can I use 4 ohm loudspeakers with my Denon receiver or power amplifier?

Answer
Yes you can.
To understand this a bit better, first realize that all amplifiers are designed to deliver a signal into an electrical "load" or resistance presented by the loudspeaker. We measure resistance in units called "ohms" (after the German physicist Georg Simon Ohm, 1787–1854).
Conventional wisdom makes an 8 ohm loudspeaker load the most acceptable because it "protects" the amplifier from delivering too much current. A 4 ohm loudspeaker can encourage a marginally designed amplifier to deliver more current than it comfortably can.
However, you should remember that a loudspeaker’s impedance rating is a nominal or average one: A speaker rated at 8 ohms may actually vary from 5 (sometimes even less) to 20 ohms or higher, depending on the frequency at which you measure the impedance. We call this reactance. (Don’t worry about this too much -- good speaker engineers are well aware of these variations and take them into consideration when designing products.)
In general, you’ll find that Denon products are designed to function with a wide variety of loudspeakers and have power supplies and output circuitry more than able to meet the current demands of low impedance loads. If using 4 ohm rated speakers, common sense should always be taken as to the volume level setting, as it is easier to overdrive or "clip" an amplifier with 4 ohm speakers than with speakers with a rating of 6~16 ohms.
In the rare event that very low impedances tax the amplifier, quick acting circuitry will protect it from damage. If unusual operating conditions trigger this circuitry, the word "PROTECTION" will appear on the unit’s front panel. If this happens, simply turn the unit off, wait a moment or two, and turn the unit back on again. The protection circuitry will automatically reset. If it re-engages, check your system for possible malfunctions such as intermittently shorting speaker wires, damage speaker drivers or it may be as simple as turning the volume down a little as not to cause the amplifier(s) to go into protection due to overdriving them.

phuongmle

I see a problem.

If I add and amp 400 watt per channels front and left

what is about my center channel? it will be less power, thanks
Phuong

Bernal

phuongmle wrote: »

I see a problem.

If I add and amp 400 watt per channels front and left

what is about my center channel? it will be less power, thanks
Phuong

Your center channel will work fine.
I use it on my Denon 4308Ci and the response is good.

phuongmle

and I'm sorry, my english is very limited..

so is that mean

If i have an external amp.

My speakers will delivery 400 watt per channel right? thanks

Bernal

phuongmle wrote: »

and I'm sorry, my english is very limited..

so is that mean

If i have an external amp.

My speakers will delivery 400 watt per channel right? thanks

Yes, main speakers (right / left) work very well at 400 watts.
The LSic worked well, place approximately 300 watts with the Denon
Try it. Your ear is the best Judge.

phuongmle

Bernal wrote: »

Yes, main speakers (right / left) work very well at 400 watts.
The LSic worked well, place approximately 300 watts with the Denon
Try it. Your ear is the best Judge.

I checked the LSi25 decription, it say RECOMMENDED AMPLIFICATION:
20-300 watts/channel

My amp is 400 watt? will it blow up my speakers ? Thanks Bernal

Phuong

Bernal

phuongmle wrote: »

I checked the LSi25 decription, it say RECOMMENDED AMPLIFICATION:
20-300 watts/channel

My amp is 400 watt? will it blow up my speakers ? Thanks Bernal

Phuong

No, worked well. The LS are consumers of power. I use them with an amplifier of 800 watts per channel.
In this forum you will find information on the subject.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89779

Try setting the Denon for better performance:

Bernal wrote: »

①
◊ Main speakers - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 120Hz.

②
◊ Main speakers - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 80Hz.

③
◊ Main speakers - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 100 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 80 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 80Hz.

④ ⇓-Preference-⇓

◊ Main speakers - LARGE,
◊ Center - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Surround - SMALL - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ Subwoofer - crossover to 60 Hz,
◊ LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel - crossover to 120Hz.

phuongmle

Bernal wrote: »

No, worked well. The LS are consumers of power. I use them with an amplifier of 800 watts per channel.
In this forum you will find information on the subject.

Try setting the Denon for better performance:

Thanks for the guide.. and all your help..

Phuong

phuongmle

I got a problems

I hook up the AMp with my denon 5805, all the wires connected correctly.

turn on the sound is kind of the same without the amp,

the meter show 0020 when listen to music. , both left and right.

no show 200 or something.. the sound is the same without the amp. please help me asap. thanks
Phuong

megasat16

Turn up the volume. You are only using 2 watts of continuous power for each speaker. It should show more than 002.0 after you turn up the volume on your Denon 5805.

Bernal

phuongmle wrote: »

I got a problems

I hook up the AMp with my denon 5805, all the wires connected correctly.

turn on the sound is kind of the same without the amp,

the meter show 0020 when listen to music. , both left and right.

no show 200 or something.. the sound is the same without the amp. please help me asap. thanks
Phuong

*MANUAL Monster Home Theater® Signature Series™ Music Reference Two Channel Power Amplifier
http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/content/monster/mpa-2250.pdf
*MANUAL DENON 5805:
http://www.usa.denon.com/AVR5805DFU_usersmanual.pdf

MANUAL DENON PAG 7:
CAUTIONS ON HANDLING
• Switching the input function when input jacks are not
connected
A clicking noise may be produced if the input function is switched
when nothing is connected to the input jacks. If this happens,
either turn down the MASTER VOLUME control or connect
components to the input jacks.
• Muting of PRE OUT jacks and SPEAKER terminals
The PRE OUT jacks and SPEAKER terminals include a muting
circuit. Because of this, the output signals are greatly reduced for
several seconds after the power switch is turned on or input
function, surround mode or any other-set-up is changed. If the
volume is turned up during this time, the output will be very high
after the muting circuit stops functioning. Always wait until the
muting circuit turns off before adjusting the volume.
• Whenever the power switch is in the STANDBY state, the
apparatus is still connected on AC line voltage.
Please be sure to turn off the power switch or unplug the cord
when you leave home for, say, a vacation.

MANUAL DENON PAG 10
Connecting the pre-out jacks
Use these jacks if you wish to connect external power amplifier(s) to increase
the power of the front, center, surround and surround back sound channels,
or for connection to powered loudspeakers.
When using only one surround back speaker, connect it to left channel.

MANUAL DENON PAG 30
Auto Setup / Room EQ
The Auto Setup and Room EQ function of this unit performs an analysis of the speaker system and measures the acoustic characteristics of your
room to permit an appropriate automatic setting.
The AVR-5805’s Audyssey MultEQ XT function has the feature that it provides the optimum listening environment at all listening positions in the
home theater, where there are often multiple listeners viewing programs together. To achieve this, it is first necessary to use a microphone to
measure test tones generated from the different speakers at the various listening positions. All this measured data is analyzed with a unique
method to comprehensively improve acoustic characteristics in the listening area. For optimum effectiveness, measurements should be
performed at six or more points. Move the microphone successively within the listening area surrounded by the speakers as shown on the
diagram below to measure the test tones. When listening to music or viewing movies with the whole family, move the microphone successively
to the different positions in which the members of the family sit (“ ” on the diagram indicates the points of installation) and measure repeatedly
(Example q). Even if the number of people using the home theater is small, taking multiple measurements at or near the listening positions makes
it possible to correct the sound more effectively (Example w).
The AVR-5805’s Room EQ function offers three correction curves: “Audyssey”, “Front” and “Flat”. These can be selected after performing the
auto setup procedure. Details of the different correction curves are described below.
Audyssey : This adjusts the frequency response of all speakers to correct the effects of room acoustics.
Front : This adjusts the characteristics of each speaker to the characteristics of the front speakers.
Flat : This the frequency response of all speakers flat.
This is suitable for multi-channel music reproduction, from discrete music sources such as Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS, DVD-Audio and
SACD.


OK.
1 .- Automatic Calibration.
2 .- THE SOUND WITH THE AMPLIFIER IS NOT ONLY VOLUME (db) is WATTS.
3 .- Turn the volume ON THE DENON A -10 AND LISTEN, -05 AND LISTEN.

phuongmle

Thanks Bernal for your help. I will try it again tonight why the amp doesn't show real watt. only 005.0 , I only turn the volume -30 , that is way too lound already, no way that I can turn the volum to -10 or -5, it will blow my house away

Thanks
Phuong

concealer404

phuongmle wrote: »

Thanks Bernal for your help. I will try it again tonight why the amp doesn't show real watt. only 005.0 , I only turn the volume -30 , that is way too lound already, no way that I can turn the volum to -10 or -5, it will blow my house away

Thanks
Phuong

That probably IS real watts.

apphd

phuongmle wrote: »

Thanks Bernal for your help. I will try it again tonight why the amp doesn't show real watt. only 005.0 , I only turn the volume -30 , that is way too lound already, no way that I can turn the volum to -10 or -5, it will blow my house away

Thanks
Phuong

Phuong, welcome to CP. Hope this simplistic explanation helps. Your speakers will only use/draw the power they need. As concealer said the 5 watts shown is probably what you are using on average. The rest is overhead, and there for the times (that happen often) when something in the music or movie track has a sudden and dramatic requirement for more. The meter probably can not react fast enough to let you see this. Having this power, (watts and current) in reserve is good. Problems occur when source material require this sudden added requirement, and the amp can not deliver it causing an amp to clip. This is more of a concern for damaging equipment than too much power.

phuongmle

apphd wrote: »

Phuong, welcome to CP. Hope this simplistic explanation helps. Your speakers will only use/draw the power they need. As concealer said the 5 watts shown is probably what you are using on average. The rest is overhead, and there for the times (that happen often) when something in the music or movie track has a sudden and dramatic requirement for more. The meter probably can not react fast enough to let you see this. Having this power, (watts and current) in reserve is good. Problems occur when source material require this sudden added requirement, and the amp can not deliver it causing an amp to clip. This is more of a concern for damaging equipment than too much power.

Thanks..

Right now I'm using denon 5805, event I add an amp, how come the sound is kinda the same, not seam like more powerful, because the amp is 400wat x 2, my denon only 170 watt? please explain for me, I really appriciated.
or maybe the denon 5805 is very powerful receiver, and does not need an amp?

phuongmle

and back to the 8ohm and 4 ohm , how do I know what is my speakers using right now? how can I change it? thanks so much

Phuong

concealer404

phuongmle wrote: »

Thanks..

Right now I'm using denon 5805, event I add an amp, how come the sound is kinda the same, not seam like more powerful, because the amp is 400wat x 2, my denon only 170 watt? please explain for me, I really appriciated.
or maybe the denon 5805 is very powerful receiver, and does not need an amp?

The sound should be clearer, fuller, more accurate, because it's got a larger supply of clean power.

It won't necessarily be louder. It'll get louder before it starts to sound like crap though. But whether or not your ears can take the volume where you may here a different might be another matter entirely.

concealer404

phuongmle wrote: »

and back to the 8ohm and 4 ohm , how do I know what is my speakers using right now? how can I change it? thanks so much

Phuong

You can't change it. Your speakers dictate if they're 8ohm or 4ohm. Your LSi25s are 4ohm speakers, so your amp has to be capable of driving 4ohm speakers.

phuongmle

Thanks so much for all your help

I though when I add the amp, the sound should be louder at the same volume without the amp.

concealer404 wrote: »

The sound should be clearer, fuller, more accurate, because it's got a larger supply of clean power.

It won't necessarily be louder. It'll get louder before it starts to sound like crap though. But whether or not your ears can take the volume where you may here a different might be another matter entirely.

suprafantx

phuongmle wrote: »

HELLO, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION

RIGHT NOW ,

I HAVE DENON 5805 RECEIVER 170 WATT X 7

LSI25 SPEKAKERS AND LSIC CENTER

2 PSW1000 SUBWOOFER

I'M ADDING
Monster Home Theater® Signature Series™ Music Reference Two Channel Power Amplifier WHICH 250 WATT X 2 CHANNAL

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=1902

WILL IT SOUND BETTER? MORE POWERFUL? WILL LSI25 HANDLE WITH NO PROBLEMS?

THANKS

PHUONG LE

You have very powerful receiver it has dynamic power 310W X 2 channels when using with 4 ohm speakers. Denon receiver produces fairly clean power so I doubt you will hear the difference with or without the amp with your current set up.

apphd

"kind of sounds the same" are you talking in 2 ch. or HT?

With HT while there is a lot going on with the R & L with most sound tracks most is still taking place in the center ch.

Also keep in mind that on average, most people require a 3 dB increase in volume to be able to just start hearing a difference. From a power stand point you need to DOUBLE the watts to get 3 dB increase. Your Denon is a very nice AVR and has very respectable power. Theoretically you should have gained a little over 3 dB in volume, but more importantly you gained headroom and solid 4 ohm power with high current capabilities. Again your Denon was no weakling so depending on how loud you had the Denon playing on it's own, you're (as Concealer said) hearing threshold would give out because of it being too loud. There are other considerations as well. How big of a room is this in? Are your expectations pro like concert sound levels? Do you have access to a sound level meter? Are you sure all the set ups are correct in your AVR and sources?

cfrizz

phuongmle wrote: »

Thanks so much for all your help

I though when I add the amp, the sound should be louder at the same volume without the amp.

If you were running 8ohm speakers the volume WOULD be louder at the same volume. What you are really finding out is how much power it takes to run the LSI series to their full potential.

I had to drop my volume back on my 8T's 10 notches because it was so loud with the amp. I told my brother the same thing with his LSI 7s & he could barely hear it. That was when I realized how much harder the LSI's are to power.

Then Denon isn't designed to run 4ohm speakers so please connect the amp back up to them. There is a lot more benefits to having an amp than just being able to turn up the volume.

There is greater clarity in instruments & vocals, better bass. I started hearing instruments in songs I THOUGHT I knew well but never heard before. This is the TRUE benefit of having separate amplification. The fact that I can play it louder was just a side benefit.

Welcome to CP & congrats on putting together a great system.

Bernal

cfrizz wrote: »

If you were running 8ohm speakers the volume WOULD be louder at the same volume. What you are really finding out is how much power it takes to run the LSI series to their full potential.

I had to drop my volume back on my 8T's 10 notches because it was so loud with the amp. I told my brother the same thing with his LSI 7s & he could barely hear it. That was when I realized how much harder the LSI's are to power.

Then Denon isn't designed to run 4ohm speakers so please connect the amp back up to them. There is a lot more benefits to having an amp than just being able to turn up the volume.

There is greater clarity in instruments & vocals, better bass. I started hearing instruments in songs I THOUGHT I knew well but never heard before. This is the TRUE benefit of having separate amplification. The fact that I can play it louder was just a side benefit.

Welcome to CP & congrats on putting together a great system.

Good explanation.:)

phuongmle

Thank you very much for all your help. I really appriciated.

I might have to downgrade lsi25 to rti a9, I used to have rti a9, and sound much better for karaoky

phuongmle

sound much better for karaokie, asian love karaokie, for some reason, lsi25 sound is not right.. .. thanks all

megasat16

phuongmle wrote: »

sound much better for karaokie, asian love karaokie, for some reason, lsi25 sound is not right.. .. thanks all

Heck! Nothing wrong with LSi25 for revealing bad Karaokie to what they really sounds like! You may like RTi A9 better but LSi25 has better resolution and imaging than RTi A9 so it'll reveal good recordings and bad recordings accordingly. That's why you are hearing the bad Karaokie sounds sucks on LSi25.

LSi speakers are very musical speakers.

cnh

Megasat16 is right....karokie is a pretty low end form of music reproduction. Any good system will show its shortcomings.

Another issue is that the LSi Vifa tweeters are more laid back and better for musical reproduction....they will not blare sound out like the tweeters in the Rti series which are better suited for HT wallops!

cnh