Help setting up system in '96 Pontiac Grand Prix

comfortablycurt

Hey everyone.

I'm getting a new(to me) car in the next couple of weeks, and one of the first things I'm going to be doing is upgrading the audio in it. It's a 1996 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP.

The stereo is all stock right now, aside from a CD changer that the previous owner installed. It's got 5.25" component speakers in the front doors, and 6x9's in the rear deck. I'm not going to worry about a sub right away...I'll probably add one eventually, but not for a while.

A few questions...I'm thinking I'm going to add new speakers before I upgrade the HU. Would I get bigger improvements by upgrading the HU first? Should I just hold off and get them all at once?

As far as the speakers go...I've been looking at the Polk MM5251's for the front doors, and the MM691's for the rear deck. The SR's look nice...but I don't think I want to shell the coin out for them.

What should I look at as far as HU's go? I definitely need a CD player in it. Having support for an iPod would be nice. I don't have an iPod currently, but I do plan on getting one eventually.

I've always had good experiences with Alpine head units...so I've been leaning in that direction. What else should I be looking at?



Thanks in advance,


Curt

ben62670

Congrats on the new car. I have the 96 with the 3100. Very good car. Cheap to fix. I was thinking of you earlier when I was felling a tree. A damn widow maker dropped about 10 feet behind me:eek:

leroyjr1

Get some sda crs's and put them in the rear window.

comfortablycurt

ben62670 wrote: »

Congrats on the new car. I have the 96 with the 3100. Very good car. Cheap to fix. I was thinking of you earlier when I was felling a tree. A damn widow maker dropped about 10 feet behind me:eek:

Eeh...Ya gotta watch out for those things. Sometimes there can be some huge branches hung up on the stupidest little thing...when you combine that with a chainsaw...they can let go. They say that cutting into a tree with a chain saw vibrates it more than an earthquake does. It's definitely the kind of job where you've gotta mind your surroundings.


It is a nice car...I'm actually getting it from my parents. My moms getting a new car, so they're giving me a pretty good deal on it. This one has the DOHC 3.4 in it...it's a pretty peppy motor. It's harder to find parts for the 3.4 though, because GM only used that engine for a few years. It's in pretty good shape overall though...140,000 miles, so it's not real high.

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Get some sda crs's and put them in the rear window.

lmao...That'd be great. I can just remove the backseat and put my 2A's in there...maybe go with some Pass Labs separates...lol

ben62670

I did a lot of tree work in the past climbing, roping, clearing power lines... The thing fell out of a tree behind me, and the tree I was felling didn't even touch that branch.

My car has 170k on it, and had no major issues till the thermostat stuck when I was warming it up. I came out and the temp gauge was pegged!

Conradicles

Curt...I used to be a Car Audio Installer back in the day...Go ahead and replace the head unit and speakers at the same time. Use an external amp if you can afford it...makes a HUGE difference.

Go with the Polk MM's and the head unit is all according to your fancy. I will say Pioneer and Alpine are built to last.

comfortablycurt

ben62670 wrote: »

I did a lot of tree work in the past climbing, roping, clearing power lines... The thing fell out of a tree behind me, and the tree I was felling didn't even touch that branch.

My car has 170k on it, and had no major issues till the thermostat stuck when I was warming it up. I came out and the temp gauge was pegged!

I've been doing tree work for about 5 years now...It's definitely a high risk job. I've had a few close calls, but nothing serious thankfully.


This car's always been reliable too. My parents were the second owners of it...I believe they bought it in 2004. It's had some minor problems over the years, but never anything serious. Depending on how things go over the next few years, it may end up getting a total rebuild...with a bit more performance in mind.:cool:

This DOHC 3.4 is a pretty damn peppy motor for a GM V6...I believe it's rated at 215 horsepower from the factory. This one's got a shift kit on it too...which made a big difference. When you really lay into it, it doesn't shift until about 7100 rpm...which is a bit high, needless to say.

Conradicles wrote: »

Curt...I used to be a Car Audio Installer back in the day...Go ahead and replace the head unit and speakers at the same time. Use an external amp if you can afford it...makes a HUGE difference.

Go with the Polk MM's and the head unit is all according to your fancy. I will say Pioneer and Alpine are built to last.

That's what I forgot to mention in my OP...amplifiers.

A 4 channel amp would work the best for me...I was looking at the Polk PA500.4, but I'm also open to other suggestions.

As far as the head unit goes, I'm mainly looking at the Alpine CDA-9886...is the 9887 worth spending an extra $100? They seem pretty similar to me.



This is all in the planning stages right now...it probably won't happen until next spring, but I like to think ahead.:)


Thanks for the help.

comfortablycurt

Ok...I know this is the Polk forum...but does anyone have any thoughts on the Alpine Type R's vs. the Polk MM's?

I used to have Type R's in an old car, and I was always happy with them. Anyone have experience with both? They Type R's are a bit cheaper...which is always a good thing.

arun1963

Assuming that you're looking to somewhat recreate the stage / image from your home 2ch rig in your car, you may want to look at the following issues before you decide on your equipment.

1. Active: Run an active network. The hu's youre looking at give you this ability. Bi-amp your front comps off the 4ch amp. Don't run rears. Run a sub instead on a seperate monoblock. Great SQ.

2. Tuning: A car is the crappiest environment for reproducing sound so you need tons of tuning ability. The Alpine units u're looking at give you this ability. You can also look at the pio 880/800, as also the top end kenwood and clarion. Clarion though is pricey. You can also look at eclipse. Ability to set a 3way network, time alignment and independent l/r control on your equalizer etc are important.

3. 1 din hu or hu+processor?: A dead head with a good processor will always give better results than a stand alone 1din unit with tuning features. Chose based on what you want and how much you want to spend.

4. Speakers : Yes this is a polk forum, but the fact is, that at its price point, its tough to beat the mm series, in active mode. The other speaker I would look at, in this price range is the Hertz hi energy HK-165. The mm's are better than the Alpine r's.

5. Amps: You can't go wrong with polk amps. The pa 500.4 is a great amp. The fact that it runs mac's sr's to perfection is validation enough.

6. Sub setup: Your mm mid driver plays down till like 40hz. You need a sub to play the 20-40hz range. Look at the polk mm series, ID, etc. Couple your sub with a decent monoblock.

comfortablycurt

Thanks for all the advice.

arun1963 wrote: »

Assuming that you're looking to somewhat recreate the stage / image from your home 2ch rig in your car, you may want to look at the following issues before you decide on your equipment.

1. Active: Run an active network. The hu's youre looking at give you this ability. Bi-amp your front comps off the 4ch amp. Don't run rears. Run a sub instead on a seperate monoblock. Great SQ.

Well...I'm not entirely sure what would be involved in running an active network...please elaborate?

Definitely going to be running rears...and I'm not looking to add a sub anytime real soon. I value my trunk space too much. The factory 6x9's already provide pretty ample bass output, and I'd imagine the Polk MM 6x9's will be even better.

2. Tuning: A car is the crappiest environment for reproducing sound so you need tons of tuning ability. The Alpine units u're looking at give you this ability. You can also look at the pio 880/800, as also the top end kenwood and clarion. Clarion though is pricey. You can also look at eclipse. Ability to set a 3way network, time alignment and independent l/r control on your equalizer etc are important.

Thanks, I'll have to check those models out too.

3. 1 din hu or hu+processor?: A dead head with a good processor will always give better results than a stand alone 1din unit with tuning features. Chose based on what you want and how much you want to spend.

I don't know if I really need to start adding external processors or anything...I'm not trying to get into competition or anything like that. I'm looking to keep it somewhat simple.

The factory stereo location is a 2 din opening, I think anyway.

4. Speakers : Yes this is a polk forum, but the fact is, that at its price point, its tough to beat the mm series, in active mode. The other speaker I would look at, in this price range is the Hertz hi energy HK-165. The mm's are better than the Alpine r's.

I've searched, and haven't really managed to find anything but praise for the Polk MM's, so that's probably the route I'll end up going.

5. Amps: You can't go wrong with polk amps. The pa 500.4 is a great amp. The fact that it runs mac's sr's to perfection is validation enough.

Again, I've seen basically nothing but praise for the Polk amps, so that's probably what I'll go with.

6. Sub setup: Your mm mid driver plays down till like 40hz. You need a sub to play the 20-40hz range. Look at the polk mm series, ID, etc. Couple your sub with a decent monoblock.

Yes, I'll be missing out on some low bass information, but I can deal with that. Adding another amp plus a sub would just take up too much of my trunk space...and I need it.

I'm sure I'll be happy with the bass output from the MM 6x9's.

arun1963

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice.





Definitely going to be running rears...and I'm not looking to add a sub anytime real soon. I value my trunk space too much. The factory 6x9's already provide pretty ample bass output, and I'd imagine the Polk MM 6x9's will be even better.

A good 10" sub, in a small sealed box, tucked away in a corner of the boot would not really kill boot space. It would make your sound complete and more natural. Running 6x9 rears has two issues. You have get cancelations when the same frequency is played from multiple speakers and the 6x9 will always produce more bass than your 6.5" mid. More surface area on the 6x9 cone. So you will get a lot more bass from the back. This will pull your sound stage backwards.

Since you're only doing the install in spring, you have time. Try and listen to installs with front+ sub and front+rears. At the end, if ure still firm on front and rears then fine.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I don't know if I really need to start adding external processors or anything...I'm not trying to get into competition or anything like that. I'm looking to keep it somewhat simple.

No you dont need a processor. I only gave that as an option. Your alpine will give you all you need. BTW both 9887 and 9886 are 1 din units.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I've searched, and haven't really managed to find anything but praise for the Polk MM's, so that's probably the route I'll end up going.

Speaker sealed. Since you have time, see if you can get to hear both the mm's and the hertz.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Again, I've seen basically nothing but praise for the Polk amps, so that's probably what I'll go with.

Good choice.

comfortablycurt

Thanks again for the advice.

The option of just going with fronts and a sub is starting to seem a little more appealing...So, I've got a few more questions.

What would be the best Polk amp to use in a "2.1" setup like that? Could I still use the PA500.4? How would I go about that? Run the fronts off of two of the channels, and then bridge the remaining two channels to run the sub?

Would a PA1100.5 be worth saving the extra coin?

Another thought that I've had, is mounting the tweeters in the A-pillars. Would it be worth the extra effort? How complicated would it be to do the install?

What sub would you recommend? I'll probably stay within the MM line. I've thought about possibly using two 8's, but will probably go with either a single 10 or 12.

Should I get one of the dual voice coil versions?


Finally...with a "2.1" setup, how is it going to sound from the backseat? Not that I spend much time back there, but I still want it to sound good for passengers.


Sorry for asking like a million questions at once...lol

arun1963

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Thanks again for the advice.

The option of just going with fronts and a sub is starting to seem a little more appealing...So, I've got a few more questions.

.....now ure talking

What would be the best Polk amp to use in a "2.1" setup like that? Could I still use the PA500.4? How would I go about that? Run the fronts off of two of the channels, and then bridge the remaining two channels to run the sub?

Would a PA1100.5 be worth saving the extra coin?

The 9887 as a source has a ton of tuning options. Using these options wouldlet you set a decent stage and image. I would go with the pa1100.5. I would bi-amp the comps of the 4 ch's and run a 10" dvc sub in a sealed box of the fifth ch. This polkie is selling a pa1100.5 for like $225. Of course its w/o b/w.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85409&page=3

Another thought that I've had, is mounting the tweeters in the A-pillars. Would it be worth the extra effort? How complicated would it be to do the install?

Mounting the tweets on the a pillars, in cross firing mode, would raise your stage height. It would be worth the effort.

What sub would you recommend? I'll probably stay within the MM line. I've thought about possibly using two 8's, but will probably go with either a single 10 or 12.

Should I get one of the dual voice coil versions?

MM series 10" dvc


Finally...with a "2.1" setup, how is it going to sound from the backseat? Not that I spend much time back there, but I still want it to sound good for passengers.

The thing with tuning is that it will sound best for one position, usually the drivers seat. Some HU's incl your alpine let you avg out the sound so that it sounds decent in both the front seats or front+rear seats. At the back, you would lose a little mid bass clarity but it would still be decent sound.

Sorry for asking like a million questions at once...lol

No prob ask away.

comfortablycurt

After doing some price shopping, the PA1100.5 seems like a no brainer. They seem to go for around 250-300 used, which is a whole lot of amp for not a ton of money. I think that's definitely the way to go. I like the fact that I could bi-amp the mains with it, and have a nice powerful sub amp all in one chassis.

I also just looked at Crutchfield, and the Alpine 9887 is selling for $340, which is only $40 more than the 9886. Hopefully that price will stick around until the spring when I'm ready to buy. Is the 9887 the way to go then? Or is there a situation like the Onkyo 805 vs. 806 debate, where the older one is actually better?...lol

Any suggestions on a source for an aftermarket a-pillar that will accommodate the tweeters? Am I better off just fabbing it up myself?

Another thought that I had...since I'm most likely going to mount the tweeters on the a-pillars, I'll have some extra room in the door panels. The factory fit for the front doors is the MM5251...Should I try to enlarge the mid-woofer opening to fit the MM6501's? The 6501's can dig a little deeper, 40hz versus 50hz for the 5251's. With a sub, will that even be a concern?

Out of curiosity, is there any reason you suggest the 10" sub over the 12" sub? Are the 10's tighter/faster sounding? I definitely want a musical sounding sub over everything else...but I also want it to have some healthy bass output. Sublime is one of my favorite bands...and I like to jam my tunes when I'm driving, so the subs gotta be able to handle the abuse that Sublime places on subwoofers...lol

Either way, I'm thinking a sealed enclosure is the way to go. Should I just buy an aftermarket enclosure, or am I better off building it myself?



So, I think this is where my potential system sits right now...

Alpine 9887
Polk PA1100.5
Polk MM5251's or MM6501's...with tweeters mounted on A-pillars
Polk MM1040 DVC in a sealed enclosure



Any recommendations on cables/wiring?



Thanks again for the help,



Curt

arun1963

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I also just looked at Crutchfield, and the Alpine 9887 is selling for $340, which is only $40 more than the 9886. Hopefully that price will stick around until the spring when I'm ready to buy. Is the 9887 the way to go then? Or is there a situation like the Onkyo 805 vs. 806 debate, where the older one is actually better?...lol

The issue I have with alpine hu's is, that they sell a box with tons of tuning features; however, to fully use these features you need to buy add on units like the imprint unit pxa-h100 and the ktx-h100. So now your $340, 9887 is $500.

That said, there is no denying that the alpines have a very sweet signature sound.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Any suggestions on a source for an aftermarket a-pillar that will accommodate the tweeters? Am I better off just fabbing it up myself?

I'm miserable with diy / install issues. Hope someone else chimes in on this.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Another thought that I had...since I'm most likely going to mount the tweeters on the a-pillars, I'll have some extra room in the door panels. The factory fit for the front doors is the MM5251...Should I try to enlarge the mid-woofer opening to fit the MM6501's? The 6501's can dig a little deeper, 40hz versus 50hz for the 5251's. With a sub, will that even be a concern?

I think you can mod out your door to accomodate the 6.5 driver. The 40hz vs 50hz is not really relevant, on two counts. One because of the sub, like you mentioned. Two, because your real world xover point for sub/mids would be in the 50-70hz range.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Out of curiosity, is there any reason you suggest the 10" sub over the 12" sub?

.... I was only suggesting the 10" from a 'space taken' angle. You can run a 12" off the amp. The 12" dvc is rated at 360 watts and if you hooked up the 12" dvc to show a 2ohm load to the amp, the sub would get 400-425 watts from the amp, with proper gains setting, this would be fine.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Either way, I'm thinking a sealed enclosure is the way to go. Should I just buy an aftermarket enclosure, or am I better off building it myself?

If youre good at diy give it a shot. But again this is an install issue....lol

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Any recommendations on cables/wiring?

I use stinger rca's and kicker speaker cable. I'm happy with both. Basically any cable that doesnt pick up ambient noise is fine.

adutCloulfida

Those door speakers are component type r 6 1/2. The magnet is pretty huge on those. Even on the type r 6 1/2 coaxial I had to cut out a lot of the plastic even diameter wise to make mine fit in the front.

Just out of curiousity what MX setting do you use on that head unit?