DB840 sub in LSI15's replace the stock 8"driver!!!!!
Comments
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You won't regret the upgrade... the only thing you'll regret is why you waited so long....
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Where did you find then for under $90? I keep finding em for between $110-$120..."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Nevermind...found em on Amazon with free shipping."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Nevermind...found em on Amazon with free shipping.
Sorry...yes, Amazon.
When I was looking a few months back they were in the $50-$60 range (each), but the price has dropped. Crutchfield now says discontinued product so that might have something to do with it.2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A -
Sorry...yes, Amazon.
When I was looking a few months back they were in the $50-$60 range (each), but the price has dropped. Crutchfield now says discontinued product so that might have something to do with it.
Yeah they are discontinued, I may snag another set to have in case I get another st of 15's at a later date.
Also the ones on Amazon are probably NOT from a authorized vendor so they are cheaper. Not sure thats a biggie as they dont get nearly as much wear/tear in the LSi's as they would in a car."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
changing the woofes made the bass a lot tighter... The original drivers tended to be a bit boomy.Definitely worth doing. The bass is a lot tighter! The mod is cheap and easy to do so it is a no brainer. Sounds EVEN better after upgrading the crossovers
Just got 'em in about 30 min ago. The comments above are consistant with my initial reaction. I don't necessarily notice an increase in bass...maybe slightly deeper, but it seems much more natural. It seems to blend better with the rest of the music.
Looking forward to getting more listening time.
...and yes...even for scaredy me doing my first mod...it was very easy.
Special thanks to Dan for taking the time on the phone this morning when I thought I effed something up.2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A -
Special thanks to Dan for taking the time on the phone this morning when I thought I effed something up.
No worries man. Now get off the forum and back to "ENJOYING THE MUSIC!!!!!!!!!!!!""....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
I've got some more listening time on these puppies.
Bass is weightier and tighter. Maybe a hair deeper, but not much. The biggest thing IMO, it is much better blended with the rest of the speaker.
The bass is the one MINOR grip I have had with these speakers since I got them last year.
I am truly amazed at the SQ difference for the price.
Thanks to all who inspired me.2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A -
I bought a set from Amazon, will be a while before I install them.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
I bought a set from Amazon, will be a while before I install them.
Why?? Might I ask...will it be a while before you install them.2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A -
Why?? Might I ask...will it be a while before you install them.
I have had them packed up in the boxes for a couple of years, been playing more with the SDA's lately. I will do it at some point, they were about to run out if these so I bought a couple. I do like the LSI's, just been very busy with work.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
I have had them packed up in the boxes for a couple of years, been playing more with the SDA's lately. I will do it at some point, they were about to run out if these so I bought a couple. I do like the LSI's, just been very busy with work.
10-4...
Hope you get to it sooner vs. later. I don't know why I waited almost a year to do it.
And as the rest said...very easy to do. Only took me 2 hours and messing with the dynomat took the longest.2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A -
With these speakers being discontinued for a while now, maybe interest in this mod is waning. But for what it's worth, I just did mine today. Luckily the db840's themselves have also been discontinued and the price seems to keep dropping. I bought mine for $43 ea w/ free shipping.
The install is straight forward. Like another person said earlier, I left the gaskets on mine and didn't use any other sealant. This way the driver will not set all the way flush with the metal collar in the opening, but using all eight screws (supplied with my drivers) I've got a good seal and it looks great! The grills on mine came on and off easily.
The sound is significantly better. There's a bit more bass, but it is much tighter and cleaner bass. I'd say this mod is easily worth $200-$300 IMHO. For the $85 bucks I spent it is really incredible!
Peace"The ear is not a microphone, the brain is not a tape recorder, and measurements are limited in describing subjective quality." Nelson Pass
2 Channel:
XDA-2, Modified Jolida JD502P (2 ea), Polk LSiM705
Theater:
Onkyo TX-NR3009 with 9 active channels, Emotiva XPA-5, MartinLogan Encore TF Center Channel, Polk M70 Mains, M40 Wides, M30 Heights, FXi A4 Surrounds, Custom built 18" sub, Mitsu 73" DLP -
Does anyone know what the market value for the OEM drivers that the DB840 replaces might be? I don't really want to hang on to them and have them taking up space so I want to dump them on CL or something.
Second I did this mod and there are a couple comments.
1 the rubber surround, I didn't get it at first and started thinking something had changed because the rubber was hard and around the speaker like a tire. I thought it might be metal. So I decided to install them and only after I saw it flex when I was putting in the screws did I realize it was rubber. lol probably stupid but I have never done much speaker work before.
Second mortite is basically nonexistent in any major stores I did find it at a small local ace hardware though. A
Third the speaker cabinet being the wood it is stripped one of the screws so I just bought new 8x 1 inch screws, but I couldn't find any in black.
Fourth I mentioned the looks of this mod and have to say after doing it, people forget it you wont be able to keep the grill off the speaker just isn't well enough finished on the cabinet side or without the rubber surround. -
^ I think I got 40 bucks for both of my woofers. There really isnt much demand for them."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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http://rudy.sloup.org/projects/LSi15_Modifications/
I took some pictures while I was doing the mod because someone here had asked and TBH it's always a lot easier if you see how its done. It would have saved me at least 1 mistake.
It would be great if the OP could put this link in the OP.
If anyone has anything else they think should be mentioned go ahead and say it and I will try to amend it. Its a lot easier than reading this whole thread.
And thanks for the info enders -
I did some measurements comparing the stock woofer to the db840 if anybody is still interested!
My bedroom measures 14 x 12 x 7.5 feet. It has some bass trapping in the corners and some absorption along the front and side walls. The left speaker is 43" from the side wall, the right speaker is 75" from the other side wall, and both speakers are 25.5" from the back wall (as measured from the tweeter). The mic was placed at the point of the equilateral triangle formed by the speakers at tweeter height.
Equipment used was a Behringer ECM-8000 omnidirectional measurement microphone, Behringer Xenyx 802 mic preamp, and Room EQ Wizard v5.01 beta 17 build 2967. The ECM-8000 calibration profile (taken from the Home Theater Shack forum) was loaded. I still haven't figured out why there's a sharp drop in the SPL response for all my measurements after about 8KHz, but it shouldn't really affect the results of this test.
Pink Noise
Before I post the measurements, here's some quick results from playing some pink noise and measuring the output:
stock woofer, left speaker: 66.8 dB
db840, left speaker: 66.8 dB
stock woofer, right speaker: 66.0 dB
db840, right speaker: 66.3 dB
stock woofer, both speakers: 72.0 dB
db840, both speakers: 72.2 dB
So there's no real drop in efficiency, it's actually pretty well the same after the swap.
Measurements
And now for the measurements comparing the stock woofer vs. the db840. Click the images for a bigger size.
SPL
20-20 000Hz, 1/3 smoothing
Figure 1. Left speaker, stock woofer in blue, db840 in green
Figure 2. Right speaker, stock woofer in purple, db840 in yellow
Figure 3. Both speakers, stock woofer in blue, db840 in green
20-400Hz, 1/48 smoothing
Figure 4. Left speaker, stock woofer in blue, db840 in green
Figure 5. Right speaker, stock woofer in purple, db840 in yellow
Figure 6. Both speakers, stock woofer in blue, db840 in green
Waterfall
Figure 7. Left speaker, stock woofer
Figure 8. Left speaker, db840
Figure 9. Right speaker, stock woofer
Figure 10. Right speaker, db840
Figure 11. Both speakers, stock woofer
Figure 12. Both speakers, db840
Thoughts
Well, compared with the stock woofer, it seems that the db840 affects the response slightly (i.e. usually less than a dB or so) from about 1kHz downwards, with the most noticeable differences happening between roughly 80Hz and 350Hz. In this latter region, there can be up to a 5.5dB drop in output with the db840.
Interestingly, the db840 doesn't seem to dig any deeper as some have noticed, as the -3dB and -10dB points are pretty much the same for both!
The waterfalls don't really show quicker decay times for the db840.. in some cases (e.g. 43Hz), the decay is actually longer. Note that 43Hz represents the interaction of both the length and width modes of my room. -
You really should have done nearfield measuring. And even with shallow slopes, it shouldn't be affect response up to 1K."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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How would you define nearfield measuring? As it was, the mic was 49" from each speaker. I considered doing the measurements on-axis with the woofer at a distance of 1m, but decided against it as it would have put me right in the room's corner at my left speaker (room modes would be at their worst and I imagine would skew results quite badly), while I wouldn't even have access to that position at the right speaker due to a desk being in the way.
I don't seem to be able to edit my above post, but all shown measurements are the result of the average of four consecutive measurements. The 1dB differences up to 1KHz may be measurement error, or they may be real. I can't confirm either way! -
Looking at the results above, does it still make sense to swap? or is it actually a downgrade?
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^Thats what I was thinking as well!--Gary--
Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out. -
So here's the thing..
I originally swapped the stock woofer for the db840 about a month ago and only a couple of days ago reverted back to the stock woofers to see which I preferred. Right away, I noticed that the bass took a turn for the worse. It seemed to hang around longer and was more indistinct than with the db840 in place. The stock woofers almost seemed to cloud up the rest of the spectrum, if that makes sense. So I decided I'd do some measurements while the stock woofers were still in place and then make the switch back to the db840.
My preference? I definitely prefer the db840. There seems to be less bloat, which correlates with the reduction in mid-bass as per the measurements, and strangely, they do seem to have more low-end grunt even though the measurements don't show them playing any lower.
I've always been unhappy with the quality of bass that the LSi15s put out and swapping back to the stock woofers reminded me at how much I disliked it. I still don't consider the bass great (or even good) with the db840s in place, but it's at least something that I can live with, especially when playing analog sources (like vinyl or FM broadcasts on a vintage tuner). -
Nearfield would be a few inches to a foot away. It takes the room out of the equation. What you measured was how each woofer interacts with the room in that section of the room.How would you define nearfield measuring? As it was, the mic was 49" from each speaker. I considered doing the measurements on-axis with the woofer at a distance of 1m, but decided against it as it would have put me right in the room's corner at my left speaker (room modes would be at their worst and I imagine would skew results quite badly), while I wouldn't even have access to that position at the right speaker due to a desk being in the way.
I don't seem to be able to edit my above post, but all shown measurements are the result of the average of four consecutive measurements. The 1dB differences up to 1KHz may be measurement error, or they may be real. I can't confirm either way!"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
I just did this swap as well, and apples to oranges (without tuning anything else) the db840 sounded faster and tighter/cleaner than the stock, but overall the speakers standalone sounded like they had less frequency response to my ears in full stereo mode. When used with my supercube sub, the system sounded better for HT in 5.1, but stereo electronic music sounded like it was missing some low end (although tighter hits) on first listen with no tweaks. I have to try to re-eq and room correct after burn in to see if it was really worth the effort and $100 bucks.
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So, after a couple of days playing with this, I have found that the new woofer has caused my speakers to noticeably distort when listening in "direct" mode. I am not sure what is causing this, but the switch seems to have caused it. Perhaps the switch caused the already power hungry Lsi15's to be even more power hungry and my amp is not up to snuff. Perhaps it is my Pre-Pro, which I am also looking to upgrade. (I have an Emotiva UMC-1 with a UPA-5. . . love the UPA-5, UMC-1 has always been suspect IMO). The system sounded great always before the switch in direct mode, so I am leaning to switch them back out and maybe try again after I get enough money to upgrade my pre-pro and get some Monoblocks or Reference 2 channel to run the LSi's in front stereo mode and 7.1 mode.
Any thoughts or experience on this from others? Could the switch cause more harmonic distortion or overdraw an amp, or is it just my setup? -
Not sure about this swap. I have had mine on for some time and I think something with the speakers or this swap is
causing my Emotiva XPA-2 amp to fault... I will be sending the amp back for the third time next week..
AS a note. I tried to put the stock woofers back on last night and I could not get them off. I used Mortite as a gasget. I pulled the bass plate/stand off and the treminal post off and tried knocking them out with a wood stick.. They will not come out.
I am at a point of selling or trashing these speakers. It's to bad, the mid range and highs are lovely on these. Bass sucks.
Really disappointed right now. -
I had the same problem. I was finally able to pry the driver out of the cabinet using medical forceps. I stuck them into one of the screw holes and was able to pry the thing loose. Care must be taken as the tool can slip and easily scratch the wood veneer!AS a note. I tried to put the stock woofers back on last night and I could not get them off. I used Mortite as a gasget. I pulled the bass plate/stand off and the treminal post off and tried knocking them out with a wood stick.. They will not come out.
http://www.medical-supplies-equipment-company.com/files/media/images/Backhause-Towel-Forceps-525-1.jpg -
Ha. I tried a dental pick and broke it... These things are super stuck..
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I have the DB840 in my LSi15's and drive them all day long with either my Parasound HCA-800II or even my Denon DRA-835R receiver. Perhaps it is the amp.
I agree that the mids through highs are fantastic but the bass can be a bit boomy. I much prefer the bass response of my RTA-11TL's, everything else it is the LSi's. I never heard them with the stock sub. In my case, I believe that the bass is mainly due to placement but I have limitations where I can position them. I am wondering if some sort of sound absorption would work.Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
I have a pair of modded LSi15s as well... I don't have any issues with amps with the speakers... I have used a Pioneer SC-67, Onkyo TX-NR906, Marantz PM-7200, Acurus DIA100 and a Sony TA-8650 with no issues... Something must be wrong with your amp...
The DB840s do sound tighter than the stock, which tended to be a bit boomy. Never regretted the swap...
Question: Are you sure you have the DB840SVC? If you have the DB840DVC and have it wired incorrectly, you could be set up for a 2-ohm load which would trip up most amps. Unfortunately, the alternative is to wire them in series (8-ohms) but the SVC model is the one you really have to use...
