Amateur review: B&K Reference 5 Series 2
concealer404
Posts: 7,440
Well, I promised Troy that i would post a review of sorts of this unit once i had a chance to let it settle and listen to a wide range of music on it. DISCLAIMER: I am no professional, nor do i claim to be. You won't see a ton of technical info or fancy words in here. I'm just posting what my ears tell me to.
So... the Preamps in the shootout:
B&K Reference 5 Series 2
Adcom GTP-400
I've used this Adcom since my first foray into the world of separates. It's been behind many setups, from my original GFA-5200 and VS-25s, to an Emotiva XPA-2 and Nik's SDAs. It's always been solid, sounded very good to my ears, and an amazing performer for the price point.
But. It's old. It's outdated. It has no remote, and no subwoofer management, and i really wanted to try something new.
Enter the B&k.
First impressions:
1) This thing is GORGEOUS. The build quality seems spot on, i really like the "pebbled" finish, and the soft rubber buttons. The deep blue display is easy to red, yet doesn't sear your eyeballs in dark conditions like other blue-lit gear. (Cough Emotiva cough)
2) It's shallow, and a strange shape/dimension to me for a preamp.
3) The remote is boring
But it's functional, and you can do ALMOST anything you need to with it.
So... off to hook it up.
I started off just running the Paradigms only, no sub. On my first real critical listening session, i listened to Dave Matthews Band "Everyday" cd. Strange choice to some, even me, but it's recorded VERY well, and it has a very wide range of instruments and dynamics, and therefor, different timbres and tone to reproduce.
1) The soundstage grew a HUGE amount, and the speakers have completely disappeared. Whether that's from finally getting the placement correct, or the preamp, it's a wash. The Adcom couldn't QUITE acheive the same results.
2) The highs are beautiful. Not a hint of sibilance, and they just float to you, rather than slamming into your eardrums and proclaiming "I'm here! Deal with it!" The tweeters always seemed to be the weak point to me of these Paradigms that i run, but no longer. Smooth, no weirdness in the curve, no spikes. I would have never described a tweeter as "warm," but i think i just did.
3) The bass seems to have lost some "slam." But on the other hand, i didn't feel the need for MORE bass. It was still tight, not overpowering in the slightest, and accurate.
4) The imaging is unreal. I hesitate to make the comparison to the "wrap-around" effect that i experienced when i first heard SDAs, but it's on that same planet, at least. It's a completely 3D experience. I can hear Dave in front of everything, and if prodded, could tell you that he's about 5'10" tall. I, and even my girlfriend, who doesn't really care when it comes to this stuff, can point out where EVERY instrument is on a left/right plane, and usually even front/back.
5) Midrange. Hard to explain, but there's a "sizzle" there, especially when distorted guitars are playing. It's exciting, it's effortless, and really neat to hear that sort of sound just "cut" through everything else and get in your face, without being too brash.
6) Detail. I can plainly hear the bow of the violin drawing over the strings, a hint of a scratch here and there from the "sticky" rosin that the violinist plainly uses. I can hear the fingers on the guitar and violin moving on the strings on the neck. I can hear the little rasp in Dave's voice come in and out, depending on what he's singing. The saxophone has that "woody" quality that i like to hear, without getting reedy. (no pun intended.)
-On to semi-technical details-
This preamp has two different sets of outputs that i've personally messed with. "Full Range" and "HPF." Full Range is obviously self-explanatory, "HPF" is for running your speakers with a sub.
*Complaint: Running the "HPF" output gives you a non-adjustable 80hz crossover. Being that my Paradigms will comfortably dig well below that, and do it well, i couldn't ever find the blend i was looking for using these outputs, using either my Mirage Omni S8 OR my Klipsch RW-10D.
What i ended up doing was running the Paradigms "Full Range," and then depending on which sub i was using, crossing over at 50-60hz. 60hz for the Mirage, 50hz for the Klipsch. I'm not done fine-tuning this, and luckily the Klipsch will change in 1hz increments. I have a feeling that 45-50hz may be better for the Klipsch. Will report back on this.
I ended up placing the sub directly in the middle of the two Paradigms. Strange for me, i've never tried this before. But it's where it needed to be for it to disappear.
Now, the strengths/weaknesses of the Adcom compared to this unit.
Strengths:
1) Way cheaper
2) Easier to tweak (but who cares?)
3) More exciting at first listen. Actually genuinely seems to handle harder rock better than the B&K, probably has to do with the "slam factor." I hesitate to say that the Adcom is bass heavy, because it's not, but the lower range just seemed fatter, had more authority.
Weaknesses:
1) No remote. This was a biggie for me. Now that the 2 channel setup is in the living room, and i have a comfy couch, i don't want to get up everytime something is slightly out of whack and needs to be tweaked.
2) No subwoofer control. On the Adcom, i was "daisy-chaining" the subwoofer in before the speakers. It worked ok, but was annoying when it came to swapping speakers around, and looked horrible.
3) Doesn't look half as good.
But all things considered, the Adcom easily performs at 80-85% of the B&K. When you look at price vs. performance, it's a GREAT bargain. Personally, because i'm a cheap ****, and on a budget, i'm not one to normally care about chasing that last 1%. But a 15-20% increase? Sign me up!
The B&K wins.
In short, ANYONE looking to move up from older or entry level preamps and doesn't want to try tubes, and likes modern convienences, should have this on their short list to try out. I don't think they're TERRIBLY expensive on the used market, and the performance increase is well worth it.
Associated gear with this "review:"
Amp: Onkyo M-5150
Mains: Paradigm Esprit V.3s
Source: Pioneer Elite DV-50A (563A)
Power Conditioning: APC H15
Cables: Audioquest Sidewinders/Monster XP speaker wire
Sub: Mirage Omni S8/Klipsch RW-10D
I'd like to thank Troy (tryrrthg) for giving me the chance to own this preamp. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what i should move up to, and he saved the day, and now i won't have to worry about it for quite a long time. At least not until the rest of my gear moves beyond this thing, and with how slow i move these days, that won't be for a LONG time.
Next, new amp/amps and speakers!
What a wonderful disease this all is.
So... the Preamps in the shootout:
B&K Reference 5 Series 2
Adcom GTP-400
I've used this Adcom since my first foray into the world of separates. It's been behind many setups, from my original GFA-5200 and VS-25s, to an Emotiva XPA-2 and Nik's SDAs. It's always been solid, sounded very good to my ears, and an amazing performer for the price point.
But. It's old. It's outdated. It has no remote, and no subwoofer management, and i really wanted to try something new.
Enter the B&k.
First impressions:
1) This thing is GORGEOUS. The build quality seems spot on, i really like the "pebbled" finish, and the soft rubber buttons. The deep blue display is easy to red, yet doesn't sear your eyeballs in dark conditions like other blue-lit gear. (Cough Emotiva cough)
2) It's shallow, and a strange shape/dimension to me for a preamp.
3) The remote is boring
But it's functional, and you can do ALMOST anything you need to with it.So... off to hook it up.
I started off just running the Paradigms only, no sub. On my first real critical listening session, i listened to Dave Matthews Band "Everyday" cd. Strange choice to some, even me, but it's recorded VERY well, and it has a very wide range of instruments and dynamics, and therefor, different timbres and tone to reproduce.
1) The soundstage grew a HUGE amount, and the speakers have completely disappeared. Whether that's from finally getting the placement correct, or the preamp, it's a wash. The Adcom couldn't QUITE acheive the same results.
2) The highs are beautiful. Not a hint of sibilance, and they just float to you, rather than slamming into your eardrums and proclaiming "I'm here! Deal with it!" The tweeters always seemed to be the weak point to me of these Paradigms that i run, but no longer. Smooth, no weirdness in the curve, no spikes. I would have never described a tweeter as "warm," but i think i just did.
3) The bass seems to have lost some "slam." But on the other hand, i didn't feel the need for MORE bass. It was still tight, not overpowering in the slightest, and accurate.
4) The imaging is unreal. I hesitate to make the comparison to the "wrap-around" effect that i experienced when i first heard SDAs, but it's on that same planet, at least. It's a completely 3D experience. I can hear Dave in front of everything, and if prodded, could tell you that he's about 5'10" tall.
I, and even my girlfriend, who doesn't really care when it comes to this stuff, can point out where EVERY instrument is on a left/right plane, and usually even front/back.5) Midrange. Hard to explain, but there's a "sizzle" there, especially when distorted guitars are playing. It's exciting, it's effortless, and really neat to hear that sort of sound just "cut" through everything else and get in your face, without being too brash.
6) Detail. I can plainly hear the bow of the violin drawing over the strings, a hint of a scratch here and there from the "sticky" rosin that the violinist plainly uses. I can hear the fingers on the guitar and violin moving on the strings on the neck. I can hear the little rasp in Dave's voice come in and out, depending on what he's singing. The saxophone has that "woody" quality that i like to hear, without getting reedy. (no pun intended.)
-On to semi-technical details-
This preamp has two different sets of outputs that i've personally messed with. "Full Range" and "HPF." Full Range is obviously self-explanatory, "HPF" is for running your speakers with a sub.
*Complaint: Running the "HPF" output gives you a non-adjustable 80hz crossover. Being that my Paradigms will comfortably dig well below that, and do it well, i couldn't ever find the blend i was looking for using these outputs, using either my Mirage Omni S8 OR my Klipsch RW-10D.
What i ended up doing was running the Paradigms "Full Range," and then depending on which sub i was using, crossing over at 50-60hz. 60hz for the Mirage, 50hz for the Klipsch. I'm not done fine-tuning this, and luckily the Klipsch will change in 1hz increments. I have a feeling that 45-50hz may be better for the Klipsch. Will report back on this.
I ended up placing the sub directly in the middle of the two Paradigms. Strange for me, i've never tried this before. But it's where it needed to be for it to disappear.
Now, the strengths/weaknesses of the Adcom compared to this unit.
Strengths:
1) Way cheaper
2) Easier to tweak (but who cares?)
3) More exciting at first listen. Actually genuinely seems to handle harder rock better than the B&K, probably has to do with the "slam factor." I hesitate to say that the Adcom is bass heavy, because it's not, but the lower range just seemed fatter, had more authority.
Weaknesses:
1) No remote. This was a biggie for me. Now that the 2 channel setup is in the living room, and i have a comfy couch, i don't want to get up everytime something is slightly out of whack and needs to be tweaked.
2) No subwoofer control. On the Adcom, i was "daisy-chaining" the subwoofer in before the speakers. It worked ok, but was annoying when it came to swapping speakers around, and looked horrible.
3) Doesn't look half as good.
But all things considered, the Adcom easily performs at 80-85% of the B&K. When you look at price vs. performance, it's a GREAT bargain. Personally, because i'm a cheap ****, and on a budget, i'm not one to normally care about chasing that last 1%. But a 15-20% increase? Sign me up!
The B&K wins.
In short, ANYONE looking to move up from older or entry level preamps and doesn't want to try tubes, and likes modern convienences, should have this on their short list to try out. I don't think they're TERRIBLY expensive on the used market, and the performance increase is well worth it.
Associated gear with this "review:"
Amp: Onkyo M-5150
Mains: Paradigm Esprit V.3s
Source: Pioneer Elite DV-50A (563A)
Power Conditioning: APC H15
Cables: Audioquest Sidewinders/Monster XP speaker wire
Sub: Mirage Omni S8/Klipsch RW-10D
I'd like to thank Troy (tryrrthg) for giving me the chance to own this preamp. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out what i should move up to, and he saved the day, and now i won't have to worry about it for quite a long time. At least not until the rest of my gear moves beyond this thing, and with how slow i move these days, that won't be for a LONG time.
Next, new amp/amps and speakers!
What a wonderful disease this all is. I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
Post edited by concealer404 on
Comments
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have any pictures?Main Surround -
Epson 8350 Projector/ Elite Screens 120" / Pioneer Elite SC-35 / Sunfire Signature / Focal Chorus 716s / Focal Chorus CC / Polk MC80 / Polk PSW150 sub
Bedroom - Sharp Aquos 70" 650 / Pioneer SC-1222k / Polk RT-55 / Polk CS-250
Den - Rotel RSP-1068 / Threshold CAS-2 / Boston VR-M60 / BDP-05FD -
have any pictures?
Not of the unit itself at the moment... I'll grab some when i get home from work and put them up. I just have pictures of my entire setup in another thread, doesn't show off the B&K real well.I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
I’m glad that you are enjoying it. You’ll have to thank Gordon (Hawkeye) as his generous karma was the reason I had it in the first place. I’m just glad I could find someone who had a use for it.Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
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cool beans, B&K certainly spends time with R&D on proper handling of audio signals, the Adcom is out-of-class in the match-up.
one thing....do you mean the reference 50.....
RT1 -
Im glad that you are enjoying it. Youll have to thank Gordon (Hawkeye) as his generous karma was the reason I had it in the first place. Im just glad I could find someone who had a use for it.
Ah yes.... Thanks to Hawkeye as well!reeltrouble1 wrote:cool beans, B&K certainly spends time with R&D on proper handling of audio signals, the Adcom is out-of-class in the match-up.
one thing....do you mean the reference 50.....
RT1
Yep, it became apparently once the B&K settled in that the Adcom was out of class. The first hour it was hooked up though, i was slightly disappointed, though.
And nope... it's a Reference 5 S2.I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
gotcha, just checking on the model as their is not alot of info on it, except that it is a fine sounding pre.
RT1 -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »gotcha, just checking on the model as their is not alot of info on it, except that it is a fine sounding pre.
RT1
Yeah... i had a HELL of a time finding anything on it.
I lost the link that Troy gave me to the manual, and it took me almost an hour to dig it up on google.I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
Pics! I apologize for the shoddy quality. I can't seem to figure out this camera to save my life.
I'll try again tomorrow if i get a chance. I want to contribute to the **** and guts thread anyways, so i'll be entertained trying to figure out how to work this stupid thing. I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
Nice pre. I have one myself.
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Ah... you've got the silver one...
What's the rest of what you've got there?I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
Tube gear is a pair of modded ASL AV20s, and a Dodd ELP. All were not in use at the time and sold shortly after. I miss that stuff, and want to get a new Dodd pre when I can.
I still have the rotel cd player, B&K pre, 200.2 S2 amp, and Equitech son of Q Jr. -
I love the fact that B&K is Made in the USA. Nice review.
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Wow! I thought that piece went into hiding someplace! It is nice to see an old friend again bringing happiness to someone else. I'm certainly glad it stayed "in the family".
Nice write up and appreciate the nice comments.
Gordon2 Channel -
Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8) -
Wow! I thought that piece went into hiding someplace! It is nice to see an old friend again bringing happiness to someone else. I'm certainly glad it stayed "in the family".
Nice write up and appreciate the nice comments.
Gordon
You know... i was wondering what the heck you upgraded to to get rid of this thing, and now it all makes sense.
Thanks again for the indirect karma! I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
