Will Onkyo 607 provide enough power?

dvran

I'm the market to upgrade my receiver, and now that HDMI has set a standard for a while, I'm ready to buy.

My speakers that I've had for a while consist of the following. I'm not going to change the speakers because I love them but maybe the sub in the future.
-Fronts: RT1000P
-Center: Csi400
-Surrounds: Fxi3

I'm looking at getting the Onkyo 607. I think has some good features minus the preamp outputs, which I really don't need because I'm staying with the speakers till they or I go. I've listened to Denons and think the sound is dull. I was also thinking the Pioneer Elite VSX line because they are close in price to Onkyo, but I've heard bad things about non-ICE Elite receivers.

Any suggestions on the setup? I think the 607 will adequately power an RT line of speakers, but I wanted to make sure.

Thanks!

Kex

Dvran, the short answer is that the 607 should do well enough with those speakers, and you really shouldn't be risking any damage unless you turn it up beyond reference level. This will depend on how you calibrate it initially, but often this means keeping the receiver about twenty clicks (usually expressed in a "dB" measurement of some sort) away from whatever its maximum setting is. Use a common sense approach regarding playing loud for too long and you should be fine. Otherwise, use an SPL meter to make sure you're not trying to get it play beyond 85dB(A) except for occasional loud passages (explosions, etc.).

Some might suggest the Onkyo would be an excellent match with the bigger RT series speakers from that generation, since they are fairly laid back IMO, rather than detailed, but the Onkyo is reputed to be on the bright side, so it might make them a little less muddy, if you prefer a more forward sound.

That said, however, when I first played around with those speakers, I found that I got much better results from a NAD receiver alone (the slightly older models, without HDMI, are attractively priced currently, new and refurbished) than with an Emotiva external amplifier, despite the difference in power ratings. Their bass output (thump and precision) can be really quite wonderful, for music especially, and they really seem to pair with some systems better than others. I have not heard them myself with an Onkyo, so I cannot give a direct comparison, and your tastes may well be different in any case. There are a few examples here of Polkies that added an amplifier to an Onkyo/RTi based system and were very happy with the improvement.

This is probably not your priority, from what I understand of your post, but for two channel listening, without the center and surrounds, I would highly recommend one of the little JoLida hybrid integtrated (tube pre & solid state amplifier section) units with those big RT1000. Even the 30w/ch of the 1301 can really waken those big RT speakers up, with surprising results.

Otherwise, despite having a powered tower, you should really still consider adding a subwoofer, if you can. Entry level models that will work for special effects in movies start at about $150 (but not so much for music, unless you just want thump and boom), and you can get a bit more performance at that price if you buy used. Otherwise, it really helps if you can push your subwoofer budget above $500 IMO.

Conclusion? Yes, it is more than likely that you can use an Onkyo 607 with good results. Yes, you may get significantly better results with other receivers that are better at waking up the bass potential of the bigger RT line speakers (and this does not depend on printed power ratings IMO). Yes, adding an external amplifier to an Onkyo has yielded significant improvement according to some Polkies. Yes, you should plan for a subwoofer. No, you do not need any of this!

Good luck!

disneyjoe7

I don't think it will sound bad, but I would look for an AVR which has Pre amp outputs. You could always use an AVR with Pre amp outputs in the future, if you do it now you could save some cash later.

kawizx9r

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

I don't think it will sound bad, but I would look for an AVR which has Pre amp outputs. You could always use an AVR with Pre amp outputs in the future, if you do it now you could save some cash later.

+1
I have RT1000P's as well and was pretty set on keeping them until they croaked. Things changed and I needed a receiver with preamp outputs, something my older receiver didn't have and you can't imagine how much I was kicking myself cause of that. Well, I've still got those RT1KP's but they're on surround duty now with SDA 1C's up front. You never know when you'll find something you might want or something you can upgrade with. Having preamp outs now really gives me peace of mind.

Question, have you heard your CS400 powered by an external amp? That thing is a beast of a center channel and you owe it to yourself to hear one powered properly.

dvran

I do have a subwoofer. Sorry if I stated that wrong in the post. It's a Velodyne and does a great job. I got my Polk speaker about 10 years ago when Circuit City would have blowout sales. RIP CC. I picked up the 1000Ps for $250/pair.

I do not run the built-in subwoofer with the RT1000Ps in movie mode, its just a wash. In 2-channel listening though I turn them on, its almost perfect bass for rock and jazz.

Thanks,

dvran

kawizx9r wrote: »

Question, have you heard your CS400 powered by an external amp? That thing is a beast of a center channel and you owe it to yourself to hear one powered properly.

I've never heard the CS400i with an external amp, should be interesting though.

I'll look on the Onkyo outlet and see if they have any last year models of the 806 which I believe has pre-outs.

kawizx9r

dvran wrote: »

I've never heard the CS400i with an external amp, should be interesting though.

I'll look on the Onkyo outlet and see if they have any last year models of the 806 which I believe has pre-outs.

806 does, but some prefer the 805 model. Easy search on Polk forum will list a few threads describing the main differences between the 2. But either one of those should be sure to please.

dvran

kawizx9r wrote: »

806 does, but some prefer the 805 model. Easy search on Polk forum will list a few threads describing the main differences between the 2. But either one of those should be sure to please.

Refurb has the 806 for 599, not too shabby for a refurbish with warranty:
http://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?productid=TX-SR806&modelid=77&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=1

kawizx9r

dvran wrote: »

Refurb has the 806 for 599, not too shabby for a refurbish with warranty:
http://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?productid=TX-SR806&modelid=77&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=1

I do have a question, what Denon did you listen to that gave you a 'dull sound'. For home theater, if I couldn't get a Pio elite I'd be going with a Denon. I love the warm sound they produce which is especially a plus when it comes to HT. It's also playing its part as a pre in my 2 channel listening, which will change later of course but it continues to satisfy in that area as well.

dvran

kawizx9r wrote: »

I do have a question, what Denon did you listen to that gave you a 'dull sound'. For home theater, if I couldn't get a Pio elite I'd be going with a Denon. I love the warm sound they produce which is especially a plus when it comes to HT. It's also playing its part as a pre in my 2 channel listening, which will change later of course but it continues to satisfy in that area as well.

Not exactly sure. They were brand new lower end models $500-1000. The Harmon Kardon I though sounded the warmest but I've heard bad things about their quality.

Kex

dvran wrote: »

... The Harmon Kardon I though sounded the warmest but I've heard bad things about their quality.

Dvran, if you liked the sound of the harman/kardon when you heard it in a store, then conventional wisdom would have it that you will like the sound of an Onkyo less.

I still own both Denon and h/k, and prefer the h/k (even though it was a vastly lower priced model, with half the stated power output). I prefer NAD compared to both of these (by quite a bit, for sound quality, with fewer bells and whistles). As for as "bad things about their quality", I'm not sure I would agree entirely, despite the long threads on the topic on some forums. I had no problems with mine, ever, and other Polkies use them with no issues either. No receiver is exempt from issues in any case, which includes Onkyo, and perhaps especially where HDMI issues are concerned. The AVR-254 is a great bargain IMO, from amazon.com (pricing fluctuates above and below $400), but you can also purchase refurbished models with warranty from their official eBay store if you want to save some extra (reports I have read seem to suggest you may get lucky, or you may get a unit with minor blemishes that are visible).

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-7-1-Channel-Receiver-Repeater/dp/B0016BGRX6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1254864198&sr=8-2
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Harman-Audio_Harman-Kardon_W0QQ_fsubZ2QQ_sidZ26519532QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

buymesome

Here is what I think

Buy an onkyo 607 because it has plenty of power and it should be used for movies only because thats its job . People say add an external amp but I say whats the point if a decent amp will cost alot of money especially if your needing more than 3 channels . You can buy an onkyo 607 for $400 brand new that has dolby LLZ for when studios start encoding it

With money left over you can buy a realy nice 2 channel amp and preamp that will destroy any avr when it comes to playing music costing alot less than what most folks pay for thier super priced avr and external amp

concealer404

buymesome wrote: »

Here is what I think

Buy an onkyo 607 because it has plenty of power and it should be used for movies only because thats its job . People say add an external amp but I say whats the point if a decent amp will cost alot of money especially if your needing more than 3 channels . You can buy an onkyo 607 for $400 brand new that has dolby LLZ for when studios start encoding it

With money left over you can buy a realy nice 2 channel amp and preamp that will destroy any avr when it comes to playing music costing alot less than what most folks pay for thier super priced avr and external amp

The point of adding an external amp is to get the most out of the speakers that you paid good money for....

Amps aren't just for 2 channel listening.

buymesome

For HT is not as important to have great musical speakers that cost alot as the sub makes up for the big bass . For musical reproduction and higher fidelity you should have 2 separate speakers preamp and amp

HT doesnt differ that much with good or great speakers as 2 channel music listening does

If you realy do have amazing speakers then why buy an avr in the first place ? Wouldnt you then just go buy a separate processor and amp Otherwise your just being limited by the processor inside the budget avr

kawizx9r

buymesome wrote: »

For HT is not as important to have great musical speakers that cost alot as the sub makes up for the big bass . For musical reproduction and higher fidelity you should have 2 separate speakers preamp and amp

HT doesnt differ that much with good or great speakers as 2 channel music listening does

If you realy do have amazing speakers then why buy an avr in the first place ? Wouldnt you then just go buy a separate processor and amp Otherwise your just being limited by the processor inside the budget avr

In all my experiences (and I bet many others can vouch as well) HT listening benefits greatly from external amplification just as much as music. Music's alterations though provided from IC's/speaker wire/etc. can probably be heard easier especially when you've listened to the damn song +1000 times and know every beat to it.

As for buying an AVR, there are many decent receivers out there that'll work as a good pre/pro. Buying a separate processor though can come at a higher cost, then you'll definitely need to add an external amplifier. I can go on and on, but an AVR is convenience.

Why do people buy Xbox 360's/consoles when a PC can blow every console out of the water?

Back to the subject though, unless you're really into HT then by all means invest your money there. But the first thing that comes to mind when I hear the word audio is music, not HT. And those that do have HT come to mind first, are probably using that setup for 2 channel listening. Are you going to tell them to buy a tubed preamp/amplifier? Or purchase another set of 'musical' speakers?

One last thing too, external amplification doesn't just give you "more bass" it lets your speakers give you better sound quality. Even at lower volumes the difference is there. It's one thing to not believe in cables/speaker wire/etc but it's another to not believe in external amplification.....even if it is just for HT.

comfortablycurt

buymesome wrote: »

For HT is not as important to have great musical speakers that cost alot as the sub makes up for the big bass . For musical reproduction and higher fidelity you should have 2 separate speakers preamp and amp

HT doesnt differ that much with good or great speakers as 2 channel music listening does

If you realy do have amazing speakers then why buy an avr in the first place ? Wouldnt you then just go buy a separate processor and amp Otherwise your just being limited by the processor inside the budget avr

There are huge benefits to be had with external amps in HT setups...even if you're using an AVR as a pre-pro. Some of the AVR's on the market have everything plus more that some of the pre-pro's have. To really get a nice pre-pro, you've gotta spend a lot.

Amps can make a huge difference though in highly dynamic scenes...explosions etc...A more powerful amp is going to be able to reproduce these huge sound effects a lot more accurately, smoothly, and without as much strain on the speakers.

It's a whole lot more than just "having more bass".

kawizx9r

^^^^+1
Great minds think alike Curt

wutadumsn23

I am with Curt and Freddy on this one. Amps will make a diff. in HT as well, and you don't know what you are missing until you try it. The 607 is a quality unit, but for about the same price, maybe a little more you can get an 805/806 and be done with it. Both the 805/806 have pre-outs and do everything that the 607 does. The "new" Dolby Digital PLIIz IMHO is not that big of a deal. The "height" speakers are just something to clutter up your walls even more and although I have never heard this type of setup, I can't imagine it being a deal breaker for an AVR purchase. I love my 806, and have been nothing short of amazed by it's performance. They have worked out all of the HDMI "blue dot" issues with a component replacement (HDMI board I think) and it is a top notch AVR, for what it costs. The 805 does have a better amp section and Burr Brown DAC's, but the 806 is no slouch. They can still be found for good prices on the web, and IMHO you can't beat the 806 for it's price. Good luck.

-Jeff

dvran

Thanks guys. I'll see what I can get the 806 for. Onkyo has them refurb for $599. I like the new 707 that's out right now but it busts the budget. The Denon 1910 gives me pre-outs so I'll check that out too. It's not a bad buy for around $550.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Zeros

You can pick up the Denon 1910 for around $400, but it does not have pre-outs. Take a look at the refurbished Onkyo 706 on shoponkyo for $480. That has preouts.

wutadumsn23

Just a heads up, Newegg has the 806 for $599 brand new with free shipping......

-Jeff

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120109&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Receivers-_-Onkyo-_-82120109

apphd

comfortablycurt wrote: »

...............
Amps can make a huge difference though in highly dynamic scenes...explosions etc...A more powerful amp is going to be able to reproduce these huge sound effects a lot more accurately, smoothly, and without as much strain on the speakers.

................

I am in agreement with the majority here. While not all music is = to all other music, and not all movie soundtracks are = to other soundtracks, IMHO movie soundtracks (many of which contain music) on average tend to have more, and bigger dynamic swings than the dynamic swings in music.
This makes me feel that better amplification is needed more so for HT than music only. But the old unwritten law of "buy as much power as you can afford" still holds true with 2 ch as well. (power being current and watts)