SDA-1C Crossover upgrade - Journey Begins

heiney9

Face wrote: »

The RD0-194/8 doesn't give much up compared to many today's high end tweeters. In your case Ron, the crossover is holding it back. Be sure to use some good caps in the HF section(Claritycaps, etc...), and you'll have a different speaker.

+1000 to this. The RD0 tweeter is vastly superior in every way to the sl2000 and a very nice improvement over the sl3000. X-over refreshing is a must and Clarity caps are a nice economical choice if you don;t want to go with Sonicaps.

H9

thsmith

PSOVLSK wrote: »

I'm going to have to disagree with you Tracy:p:D:D I'm about to take the "spike those suckers" advice and I'm nervous about it.

Looks like you did a great job. Glad to hear it was a worthwhile investment of your time and money. Sounds like you're really enjoying the upgrade. I've got to get back over there and hear your system since you've spiked them and changed out the XO's. I thought it sounded incredible BEFORE these upgrades...not to mention the new IC's and speaker cables.

Hey Paul, the spikes were on there the last time you came over. I can not stress enough the myesound spikes. Adding the MITs S3 speaker cables to match the ICs was a nice upgrade, I am thinking the XO upgrades has added as much improvement.

Before I performed the XO upgrades I could turn my Pre volume up to 1/3 with CDs. Vocals were so in your face that is all you could go comfortably. I have pushed up to 2/3s and could go more since the XO upgrades.

I am in heaven ! Music just takes you away and I am hearing so much more than I ever did. I have heard others say it but it is like listening to music for the first time and I having that experience, stuff I have listened to for years is like I am listening for the first time. I have about 55 hours on them now.

We could do your XOs in 1.5 hours from start to finish.

The spikes are easy, the hardest part is drilling into the base without going all the through and driving the T-nuts in.

Ron Temple

heiney9 wrote: »

+1000 to this. The RD0 tweeter is vastly superior in every way to the sl2000 and a very nice improvement over the sl3000. X-over refreshing is a must and Clarity caps are a nice economical choice if you don;t want to go with Sonicaps.

H9

The 194s are pleasant. Much better behaved than the SL2000. However, I recently heard some Swan 4.1s on a Pio SC-05 (w/MCACC engaged) and later some GR Research AV-2s with a Marantz/Audiosource front end...cables from AQ (Black Mambas). Anyway, I played the same material back here after listening and I was struck by the full bodied vocals with all the nuance and how wailing guitars, even distorted, sounded more tuneful less strident than my SDAs. Both the other rigs can't compare in any other category. I know alot or maybe all of this could be my room, but if upgrading my crossovers will smooth my treble with a bit of honey, then I'll think it's well worth it.

I'm probably the only one that notices this. Whenever someone comes over here, they're the ones with disbelieving looks on their faces.

heiney9

Ron Temple wrote: »

but if upgrading my crossovers will smooth my treble with a bit of honey, then I'll think it's well worth it.

I'm probably the only one that notices this. Whenever someone comes over here, they're the ones with disbelieving looks on their faces.

It will if you use premium caps. My 1C's are some of the most laid back yet detailed speakers I have ever heard. I know the RD0194-1 is part of the reason, but the other (larger) part are the Sonicaps as well as my Pass amp.

H9

heiney9

The other thing that amazes me about my 1C's is the better the gear the better they sound. I have kept upgrading and they sound sweeter and sweeter each time. I am using argueably the best single ended Class A amplifier out there and it has taken my 1C's to a whole new level and with the addition of a tube pre-amp, I can't imagine it getting any better.

Pure audio ecstacy, synergy is off the charts superb.

thsmith

heiney9 wrote: »

the other thing that amazes me about my 1c's is the better the gear the better they sound. I have kept upgrading and they sound sweeter and sweeter each time. I am using argueably the best single ended class a amplifier out there and it has taken my 1c's to a whole new level and with the addition of a tube pre-amp, i can't imagine it getting any better.

Pure audio ecstacy, synergy is off the charts superb.

+1000000

thsmith

at 60 hours burn in I have to say I am impressed. I think the XO upgrades has allowed the MIT cables and other components in my system shine.

Listened to Poco Blue and Gray and Carol King Tapersty lastnight was just blown away.

Many have said the CAPs need 2-300 hours burn in, I can not imagine the sound could be better than it already is.

heiney9

thsmith wrote: »

at 60 hours burn in I have to say I am impressed. I think the XO upgrades has allowed the MIT cables and other components in my system shine.

Listened to Poco Blue and Gray and Carol King Tapersty lastnight was just blown away.

Many have said the CAPs need 2-300 hours burn in, I can not imagine the sound could be better than it already is.

Trust me it will get better! The sound stage will open up even more and everything will become even more 3 dimensional.

H9

thsmith

heiney9 wrote: »

Trust me it will get better! The sound stage will open up even more and everything will become even more 3 dimensional.

H9

Thanks H9, that would be incredible ! I could not want for more from my 1Cs.
Considering I paid $300, $125 spikes, $200 RDO194s and $300 for XO upgrades I just don't think you will find a better speaker at twice or 3 times the price.

robosdad

Read this eagerly because I want to recap, etc. (admittedly not sure what the etc. is yet) my SDA 1-C's. But I don't see any pics that were alluded to. Am I missing something? Thx!

joebass3

robosdad wrote: »

Read this eagerly because I want to recap, etc. (admittedly not sure what the etc. is yet) my SDA 1-C's. But I don't see any pics that were alluded to. Am I missing something? Thx!

There are pics on page one of this thread about half way down but here is one for you. I took a cheaper approach and used ClarityCap instead of Sonicap.

F1nut

Clarity is a good choice.

robosdad

This is great. Slowly starting to envision the process. And if I’m reading this correctly I can run two capacitors in parallel to achieve the right value if I can’t find the value otherwise? For example I can run two 20uf capacitors for the 40uf one?

Also a lot of the values @thsmith describes aren’t available on the
Clarity sales page. How exact do I need to be? (I’m assuming right on target?) Thinking of maybe doing one speaker and then listening to some mono and seeing if it makes a difference. Then if so, doing the other one.

F1nut

Sonicap is the only brand with the exact values for vintage Polk speakers. Some believe close enough is ok due to the original +/- tolerances. Personally, I go for the exact value.

Doing one speaker at a time is IMO, plain stupid. For one thing, the caps need to burn in, so you're not getting the full picture from the get go. Additionally, playing mono won't give you the full picture either.

Don't worry, upgrading your crossovers WILL result in an improvement.

For example I can run two 20uf capacitors for the 40uf one?

Yes.

robosdad

F1nut wrote: »

Sonicap is the only brand with the exact values for vintage Polk speakers. Some believe close enough is ok due to the original +/- tolerances. Personally, I go for the exact value.

Doing one speaker at a time is IMO, plain stupid. For one thing, the caps need to burn in, so you're not getting the full picture from the get go. Additionally, playing mono won't give you the full picture either.

Don't worry, upgrading your crossovers WILL result in an improvement.

For example I can run two 20uf capacitors for the 40uf one?

Yes.

Gotcha. Thx. And it’s ok to mix and match sonicaps and Clarity? (Or Dayton)?

Gardenstater

Personally I don't know from experience but my *gut* tells me it isn't anything like a peanut butter and mayonnaise sort of situation lol.

For those who are not anti-fans, Dannie Ritchie often goes with something like a JB Capacitors cap (where the heck do ya buy these things?) on the midwoofer/woofer circuit and Sonicaps on the tweeter circuit. FWIW.

robosdad

Just so you know you haven't wasted your time, I wanted to update that I'm still planning on recapping my SDA's, but ran into some confusion about specs and also got distracted by real-life biz...

Anyway, my goal is to have my parts in hand by the beginning of summer. SO would the following capacitors be OK? They're certainly more in line with my budget...

https://www.daytonaudio.com/category/242/metalized-polypropylene-crossover-capacitors?pagenum=2

Thanks for your help and I'm sure I'll be asking for more of it soon- this stuff is pretty confusing to me (for now).

F1nut

Dayton and Bennic are the same, to be avoided.

robosdad

I used Daytons for my Klipsch Heresys as per the vendor's recommendations (The Crites folks, in case you're familiar with that whole Klipsch side of things) who had both Sonicaps and Dayton available. He said they would sound more or less similar, but the Sonicaps would last longer.

Still, I'd certainly appreciate suggestions for alternatives- are there any that are around Dayton's price point that would be decent? Or could I use Dayton for the larger values (those are for the woofers, correct?) and something more $quality$ for the smaller values (assuming they're for the tweeters)?

I looked at ClarityCaps but it seemed like they didn't offer most of the values that I would need.

plastic_avatar

I used Daytons on my Monitor 12 Series 2.

They work, are better than stock, but there's something missing in the upper midrange that confuses me.

I used Clarity caps for my 1C, and even though they're not directly comparable as a speaker to my Monitors, those upper midrange gaps are filled. I'm convinced enough that the caps made a difference, so (if I keep the Monitors), I'd love to upgrade them to Clarity caps.

I'll likely use Clarity in my 5B refurb, too.

If the budget is tight, do what you can. It'll still be better than stock

joebass3

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You could build them like mine. Madisound has everything in Clarity except the 40uf. I was told the 40uf doesn't have to be the best of the best so just use Dayton for that one. I mixed Dayton and Clarity when I rebuilt my Monitor 10's and I think they sound great! You'd be all in for less than $150 for caps.

robosdad

joebass3 wrote: »

[/quote]

You could build them like mine. Madisound has everything in Clarity except the 40uf. The 40uf doesn't have to be the best of the best so just use Dayton for that one. I mixed Dayton and Clarity when I rebuilt my Monitor 10's and I think they sound great! You'd be all in for less than $150 for caps.
[/quote]

That sounds perfect. I'll check it out! Do you think its $150 for both or for one crossover?

xschop

Anybody tried the Silver Dragons?...

http://www.erseinc.com/product-category/c-cap-metallized-polypro/

joebass3

robosdad wrote: »

That sounds perfect. I'll check it out! Do you think its $150 for both or for one crossover?

That would be all caps for both speakers. Does not include resistors.

robosdad

That’s wonderful. I think you have pointed me down the kind of path I was hoping for. Thank you!!

I actually wasn’t planning on changing out the resistors. I’m under the impression that’s not necessary- the specs don’t drift. Am I wrong?

invalid

robosdad wrote: »

That’s wonderful. I think you have pointed me down the kind of path I was hoping for. Thank you!!

I actually wasn’t planning on changing out the resistors. I’m under the impression that’s not necessary- the specs don’t drift. Am I wrong?

You are correct, but better resistors make them sound even better. You could just buy the sonicap capacitors and upgrade the resistors later.

Gardenstater

xschop wrote: »

Anybody tried the Silver Dragons?...

http://www.erseinc.com/product-category/c-cap-metallized-polypro/

I think Erse is gone and it is US Coils now, or some employees formed US Coils? Apparently there was a death of the owner of Erse and the widow wants nothing to do with it?

https://uscoils.us/capacitors-mpx/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/erse-is-gone-us-coils-rises-like-a-phoenix-from-their-ashes.34999/

https://diy.midwestaudio.club/discussion/1917/erse-is-done

xschop

Ah...see now. Was wanting to try a set of those new C-Caps. Looks like the Black Dragons went deep cover over there.

F1nut

robosdad wrote: »

I used Daytons for my Klipsch Heresys as per the vendor's recommendations (The Crites folks, in case you're familiar with that whole Klipsch side of things) who had both Sonicaps and Dayton available. He said they would sound more or less similar, but the Sonicaps would last longer.

Still, I'd certainly appreciate suggestions for alternatives- are there any that are around Dayton's price point that would be decent? Or could I use Dayton for the larger values (those are for the woofers, correct?) and something more $quality$ for the smaller values (assuming they're for the tweeters)?

I looked at ClarityCaps but it seemed like they didn't offer most of the values that I would need.

Last longer!?! That is complete nonsense. Dayton and Sonicap are film caps, they will both outlast you and then some. Film caps do not degrade/drift like electrolytic caps do.

Yes, you can use Dayton for the shunt circuit, which many believe doesn't matter
as much, and use Sonicap for the rest.

robosdad

Wait am I using film and foil or metallized polypropylene? I thought the latter!