Damn you John

maandjojo

:DJohn ( noosinjohn ) has been in my ear now for over a week to get a turntable. "So shall it be said, so shall it be done." Picking up a Dual cs 504.
I had a 505 years ago and thought it was great. Belt driven semi, and built real solid.
Ok John, what's next?:rolleyes:

Joe:

danz1906

Congrats on the turntable!

nadams

Now you need some o them big frisbees to put on in

NJPOLKER

Does a TT sound that much better than a CDP? I know a **** TT or a **** CDP will sound like ****, **** in **** out. If someone were to listen to a TT and a CDP, both in of good quality what would they hear or which would they prefer? Or is it just subjective?

megasat16

NJPolker,

A good TT is only a start. You need a good cartridge, a good Source material (Vinyl) as well as a really good phono Preamp. Otherwise, most TT with OEM cartridge sounds very ****!

A Good TT system can overwhelm a good CDP but an excellent CDP with outboard DAC wins hands down to most TT at any price point.

everpress

megasat16 wrote: »

NJPolker,

A good TT is only a start. You need a good cartridge, a good Source material (Vinyl) as well as a really good phono Preamp. Otherwise, most TT with OEM cartridge sounds very ****!

A Good TT system can overwhelm a good CDP but an excellent CDP with outboard DAC wins hands down to most TT at any price point.

Good Lawd, that's a lot of capital letters! I know what a "TT" is and "OEM", what is a "CDP"? Cassette Deck Player, maybe? And a DAC?
Anyway, some receivers have a built in phono input that provides a preamp; these are hard to find on a budget. And I have the cheapest of the cheap as far as turntables go and I still find the analog to be supperior to digital on sound quality. I look forward to replacing my TT with a quality entry-level audiophile one in the future.

concealer404

CDP = CD Player
DAC = Digital Analogue Converter

Toolfan66

CDP = Compact Disc Player
DAC = Digital to Analog Converter


EDIT:concealer404 beat me to it..

hearingimpared

megasat16 wrote: »

NJPolker,

but an excellent CDP with outboard DAC wins hands down to most TT at any price point.

I disagree.

everpress

Great! Thanks guys!
I was wondering why a magnetic-based recording would be any better than vinyl.
So is it pretty much everyone is in the same mindset that the DAC is a worthwhile investment? I don't actually play anything from CDs, I use my Mac as a music server and run it through the digital out to digital in on my receiver. Would a DAC be a good upgrade for this?
Many, not all, of my tracks are high, lossless recordings, some pulled from vinyl. That along with Internet radio is about 90% of my music listening; the other 10% being vinyl.

ben62670

Look for an Adcom GDA-700 or 600. Over built, and under priced. You can get the 600 for $125 if you take your time shopping.

nooshinjohn

maandjojo wrote: »

:DJohn ( noosinjohn ) has been in my ear now for over a week to get a turntable. "So shall it be said, so shall it be done." Picking up a Dual cs 504.
I had a 505 years ago and thought it was great. Belt driven semi, and built real solid.
Ok John, what's next?:rolleyes:

Joe:

Grab a case of those Mexican cokes, a Dark Side of The Moon LP and close your eyes! In an instant you will be 25 years old all over again!:D

Congrats man!

Big Dawg

ben62670 wrote: »

Look for an Adcom GDA-700 or 600. Over built, and under priced. You can get the 600 for $125 if you take your time shopping.

+1
I got one for that exact price (including shipping) and haven't looked back. I also picked up a Dual TT that still needs to be added to the rig - can't wait to compare the sound. (Of course, the tubes in the phono section of my preamp are mediocre Sovteks, so I may need to upgrade those to really hear the vinyl well.)

StantonZ

I'll put an (old) LP on my B&O turntable (and cartridge) up against the same title (old) CD any day, which is why I have re-purchased very few (remastered) CD's. However, you can't beat CD's for convenience and longevity. I have quite a few songs on my iPod that I captured using my own turntable and computer that most people can't tell from a ripped CD.

maandjojo

Dark side of the moon, actually I have ordered that one on Amazon. Will have to buy some pot though. At age 25 I would have never listened to PP without lighting up a bone.

Joe

nooshinjohn

maandjojo wrote: »

Dark side of the moon, actually I have ordered that one on Amazon. Will have to buy some pot though. At age 25 I would have never listened to PP without lighting up a bone.

Joe

lol... I never have tried illegal drugs of any kind... Maybe thats why I am so Effed up.:rolleyes:

maandjojo

If you are drinking those Mexican cokes you have had an illegal drug.
You will have to excuse me, I thought I said buy some herb. My apologies.
Cheers, from one effed up to another.

Joe

inspiredsports

Lots of controversy as usual

Is it subjective? Is DAC sound better than turntable sound? etc., etc.

The bottom line (as with any source, preamp, amp, power cord, speaker cable, IC, on and on), is that the LISTENER has to make the determination for himself or herself by LISTENING.

With that said, turntable setup is ultra-critical.

The platter speed must be perfect. --- The human ear can detect frequency differences (negatively) if the speed is off of 33-1/3 rpm by even as little as less than 1/10th of 1 percent.

Tonearm wiring (the tiny stuff inside of the tonearm) matters and the Interconnect from the tonearm to the preamp matters. --- The IC's you use to connect this stuff also matters.

The preamp matters, and vinyl tends to like tube gear somewhere in its path.

You will need to learn about cleaning vinyl. You will need to learn about platter mats and record clamps.

The cartridge "compliance rating" (bendiness of cantilever) must be properly paired with "effective mass" (weight) of your tonearm --- Most people are clueless as to what their components rate.

You need to select a fairly decent cartridge once the compliance you are seeking is known

Once you select your cartridge, be prepared to learn about VTF, VTA, Azimuth, and Guru Protractors because if you don't, you will NEVER get that little gem "floating" at the precise position where it need to be to get the kind of sound that keeps you from rarely visiting your CD collection again.

Just my 2 cents

hearingimpared

inspiredsports wrote: »

Lots of controversy as usual

Is it subjective? Is DAC sound better than turntable sound? etc., etc.

The bottom line (as with any source, preamp, amp, power cord, speaker cable, IC, on and on), is that the LISTENER has to make the determination for himself or herself by LISTENING.

With that said, turntable setup is ultra-critical.

The platter speed must be perfect. --- The human ear can detect frequency differences (negatively) if the speed is off of 33-1/3 rpm by even as little as less than 1/10th of 1 percent.

Tonearm wiring (the tiny stuff inside of the tonearm) matters and the Interconnect from the tonearm to the preamp matters. --- The IC's you use to connect this stuff also matters.

The preamp matters, and vinyl tends to like tube gear somewhere in its path.

You will need to learn about cleaning vinyl. You will need to learn about platter mats and record clamps.

The cartridge "compliance rating" (bendiness of cantilever) must be properly paired with "effective mass" (weight) of your tonearm --- Most people are clueless as to what their components rate.

You need to select a fairly decent cartridge once the compliance you are seeking is known

Once you select your cartridge, be prepared to learn about VTF, VTA, Azimuth, and Guru Protractors because if you don't, you will NEVER get that little gem "floating" at the precise position where it need to be to get the kind of sound that keeps you from rarely visiting your CD collection again.

Just my 2 cents

. . . and a valuable two cents it is.

bluecomet

You are right on the money with that post (inspiredsports). Be prepared to spend a good chunk of coin to make that record really sing. If you are up for the journey, go for it. You can make an arguement for CD's, SACD, records or even reel to reel if you wanted to. It is really up to the taste of the listener. Sit back an enjoy the music and if it moves you then you reached your destination, sonic nirvana.

megasat16

inspiredsports wrote: »

Lots of controversy as usual

Is it subjective? Is DAC sound better than turntable sound? etc., etc.

The bottom line (as with any source, preamp, amp, power cord, speaker cable, IC, on and on), is that the LISTENER has to make the determination for himself or herself by LISTENING.

With that said, turntable setup is ultra-critical.

The platter speed must be perfect. --- The human ear can detect frequency differences (negatively) if the speed is off of 33-1/3 rpm by even as little as less than 1/10th of 1 percent.

Tonearm wiring (the tiny stuff inside of the tonearm) matters and the Interconnect from the tonearm to the preamp matters. --- The IC's you use to connect this stuff also matters.

The preamp matters, and vinyl tends to like tube gear somewhere in its path.

You will need to learn about cleaning vinyl. You will need to learn about platter mats and record clamps.

The cartridge "compliance rating" (bendiness of cantilever) must be properly paired with "effective mass" (weight) of your tonearm --- Most people are clueless as to what their components rate.

You need to select a fairly decent cartridge once the compliance you are seeking is known

Once you select your cartridge, be prepared to learn about VTF, VTA, Azimuth, and Guru Protractors because if you don't, you will NEVER get that little gem "floating" at the precise position where it need to be to get the kind of sound that keeps you from rarely visiting your CD collection again.

Just my 2 cents

You summed it up pretty well! Nice Write Up and Very Informative for TT guys.

It's not going to be CHEAP for a good TT setup.

tx_polkhead

Those Mexican Cokes are all natural (pure cane sugar that is) you'd have to buy that all-American Coke sweetened with High Fructose Corn Syrup which is a bad drug, or are we talking about herb, wait, wasn't this a turntable thread???

sTiLlLeArNiNg

Personally i prefer the sound of vinyl over CD Getting great sound out of vinyl will not cost a fortune IMHO

A Dual TT with a standard ortofon om-10/20/30 or a shure m91/95/97 will give you a most pleasureable experience! Especially if setup properly

Here's a link to some Dual info (model's, manual's, general info....) http://www.dual-reference.com/ and vinylengine seem's to have quite a bit of TT info as well http://vinylengine.com/

We have 2 Dual's in the house, a 510 (Shure m91ed) + 505-3 (Ortofon om10/Shure m97xe) they'll be going in next week to see the Dual Dr for some service (new IC's, clean + lube, adj belt's, balance tonearm's, set tracking weight etc....) I've been talkin to Robert for the last few day's and he seem's like an awesome guy! He get's rave review's from the local's http://www.all-electronics.com/

Cheer's!

inspiredsports

megasat16 wrote: »

You summed it up pretty well! Nice Write Up and Very Informative for TT guys.

It's not going to be CHEAP for a good TT setup.

I've actually built 21 extremely nice vintage Thorens turntables since last November. I buy from eBay, combine, tweak, repair and replace as needed to end up with a perfectly functional unit.

At this point in time I've sold off 14 of them that have covered the ENTIRE cost of the 7 remaining. 3 of the remaining tables are worth around $450 or more each (without cartridge) on the resale market, and actually sound as good as what you would pay $1,500 for new today.

In terms of dollars it actually has been "cheap" when you look at the value of what I have left here.

In terms of HOURS it has been extremely costly, but this is my hobby so I don't look at it that way.

I guess if I sold all off the turntable parts I've accumulated here it would amount to about $5,000 of profit and I've probably invested 500 hours (10 hours per week) to generate that. If you extrapolate out the hours, it would be like like having an extra $20,000 per year full-time job.

Not great, but not costly as I'm earning better than minimum wage to do something that I love.

nooshinjohn

and tax free income on top of that...

maandjojo

This post is now turning out to be one of those great learning experiences from the Polk forum. Thanx to all.
Stillearning, I have always said, its not what you know but who. Of course its cheaper to know. I will be using your links.
As always John, thanx you sob for costing me more money. HA! HA!

Joe

nooshinjohn

maandjojo wrote: »

As always John, thanx you sob for costing me more money. HA! HA!Joe

That's what happens when you join this place... one of the requirements for membership here should be a deep wallet;)

mmadden28

Sort of on topic-speaking of Dual brand turntables and all...
Is $240 for a Dual CS-5000 Turntable (the wood model) a good deal. I'm not sure the cartridge still has the needle though. I'm looking at one locally-it appears to be in good shape.

sTiLlLeArNiNg

Glad to have been helpfull

@ $240 for a cs-5000 if it's in good shape you'd be getting a GREAT table the cs-5000 is Dual's 2nd or 3rd best table I think a lot of people don't give credit to the simplistic quality of the Dual's

As previously mentioned the Thoren's are also great table's and can be found relatively cheap as well

Since i'm just getting into TT's i'll get them serviced once professionally and then it's all me baby! I already have a tonearm re-wiring job in my mind for the very near future