different brands...different products

sntnsupermen131

hey guys,
this post is mostly about whats good...whats not...what you think about certain brands and their products
im bored and im going through the carmedia1 website looking at subs and amps
this might take a while to answer...
1. Cerwin-Vega STROKER12D2/D4 12" Woofer
$389(all prices are from carmedia1, not retai)
basics:
1000 WATTS RMS
SENSITIVITY: 92dB
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 40HZ-200HZ
SELECT 4 OR 2 OHM DUAL VOICE COIL
and while im on that...what the deal with that...
like 2 ohm speakers...4 ohm...8 ohm...dual 4 ohm
i know it has to do with the way its wired...gives you more options
i even saw a 3 ohm sub...cant remember who made it...what kind of options do you have with that?
anyways...those specs resemble those of the IDMaxes dont you think?
IDMAX 12
93.6 db(better)
50Hz-200Hz(worse)
$279(HELL OF A LOT BETTER)
everything else is the same
2.precision power?
1000w rms
$189
only 24 lbs.
sounds like a pos to me
no more specs given...probably cuz they dont want you to see them
3. Rockford Fosgate Power 12" woofer
$289
DUAL 2 OHM VOICE COIL
4" VOICE COIL(what does that matter for?)
1000 WATTS RMS
SENSITIVITY: 87dB(weak!)
nice looking sub though
4. Swiss Audio SPL1290 12" Woofer
i think i asked about swiss audio b4 but no one replied
$109
RMS: 700W
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 22HZ-500HZ (500??)
DUAL 4 OHM VOICE COIL
SENSITIVITY: 93dB(nice)
26lbs...
i dont know what to think
700w rms but it only weighs 26 lbs
93dB but it only costs 109
and 500Hz?
ok moving to carstereotime.com...all prices will be theirs now
Audiobahn AWT12X
$335
RMS: 2000W(dammmmmmmmn)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 20Hz-500Hz(Why so high?)
87.3dB
foam surround(why foam?)
1 Ohm or 4 Ohm Operation
Hifonics T1222
$275
RMS Power: 1700 Watts (yeah thats a lot)
3" Diameter voice coil
1/4" long Aluminum Former
4 layer 23 AWG Wire, 190 Oz Magnet
Foam Surround
Optimized for High SPL competitions
Impedance: 2 ohms
thats all the info on it
orion HCCA 12D
$325
RMS: 600w
SENSITIVITY 88/ 94 dB (how does that work?)

"Fs 437 Hz
Qts .39"-whats that?

Phoenix Gold XMAX12
$220
Sealed (cubic ft):0.6 - 1.4
Vented:1.6 - 2.25
Power Handling (RMS):500 watts
Cone Material: Carbon Fiber
Magnet Weight:96oz
Sensitivity (1W/1M):89dB
(all the info on it)
ok, thats all for now
what do you think the best 12 in sub is out there?
i havent been into car audio very long(couple of years) and im trying to get better with different brands...knowing which ones are good and which ones suck w/out looking at the specs...then when i do look at the specs im trying to understand them better too
so all your help is appreciated
-Cody

jamas33

As far as 12 inch subs.. I'm very partial to Polk Momo 124. I really love my subs.

sntnsupermen131

i like my 2 mm124s too
just looking...
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

Vega Strokers --> have been one of the preferred subs for entry to mid level SPL competitors -- they can be had a LOT cheaper than 389 if yo dont care how old they are or if they were overstock / refurbs / b - stock. every once in a while i see a pair of refurbs in box for 160 - 170. they're a very very good sub. They're kind of old in design, and they're not "the ****" anymore, but they're still really good high quality SPL gear.

re ohm loads --> dual 3 ohm loads are 1.5, as u already are familair w/ i'm sure... 3 ohm subs or dual 3 ohm coil subs are just something mfg's think peopl emight want... three 3 ohm subs is a 1 ohm stable load... who the hell knows why you'd want an odd numbered impedance but hey... oh well.

IDmax --> frequency response is incorrect. 50 - 150/200 was the ground plane test for the efficiency of the sub. the sub actually rolls down around 20. I'm kicking myself for not remembering specifically, and ID's tech page is down, so I can't even look it up, but its like 20 - 30... if it was 50 there'd be a sizeable "lack" of bass... no sub from any mfg should be as poor as 50 hertz on the low end. either way, the sub is not really built for SPL use, and even though its built like a tank, I tend to think it would come apart if used repeatedly for SPL... one of the many reasons the Version 3 which just came out has a rebuildable cone/coil assembly.

Precision Pwr --> junk.

Rockford Power HX2 --> actually a very good sub... not all that great on country / classic rock / fluffy music, but an absolute beast on the heavy stuff, rap, techno, industrial. It outdoes the IDmax on the rap / techno / industrial, and gives a more appealing sound on those tracks. that lack of efficiency isn't a bad thing.. its normal... most subs are 83 - 87 db efficiency -- the momo 10 is 85/ 12 is 87 -- the fact that the vega and the Max are in the low 90's is they're a different breed of sub. The vega is made for pure thumping... as much boom out of hte sub as humanly (well mechanically) possible. The max is made for extremely accurate sound quality while still being able to handle a lot of power and, yet never losing linearity, as a result of this, its really not a damn bit of good above about 70 hertz. The HX2 is more like a momo that can handle twice the power and does the low note a lot better... it'll play up to that "ideal" 80/90 everybody hopes a sub will do and it has that certain "powerful" tone to it that is just unmistakable.

Length of voice coil --> longer voice coils are just longer induction coils... the greater the number of turns, and the greater the radius of the coil, the greater the resulting field will be which causes the speaker to move forward and backward.

Swiss Audio --> I don't really know too much about them. I've been told Swiss makes the best interconnects / speaker wire, but the source who told me is about as flaky as Tony the Tiger's breakfast cereal.

Audiobahn --> Isn't worth the materials its made of... we've had the audiobahn discussion... I've never seen the sub but I'll judge it by AB's standards.

Hifonics / Orion / PG --> I have not heard any of these speakers. (not recent models -- the old HCCA Orion sub I'm familiar with -- it was a great speaker).

Best 12" sub --> You're going to have to break this into a few categories...

1- low power SQ -- Oz Audio Matrix 250L, 180 rms / 300 max, 19 - 2,000 hertz., 86.1 db efficiency.

or... Image Dynamics IDQ 12 D4 V.2, 350 rms / 700 peak, 90 db efficiency.


2- Medium Power SQ -- Focal Uptopia 12" (13"), 350 rms / 700 peak, 94 db's efficiency. it will do a good deal beyond this rated rms power -- 500 ballpark rms with no harm to sound quality.


2- high power SQL -- Image Dynamics IDmax 12 D4 V.2, 1000 rms (underrated -- 1200 - 1350 easily depending on whether its an early V2 or a latter V2... V3's are less... 1100 - 1150)... 93 db's efficiency.

or
Adire Brahma 12", 1600W RMS, 4800W peak (over rated... does more like 1300 before you start having issues with it). 84 db's efficiency.

or
Soundstream Davinci 12" -- 1000 rms, 87 db's, 25- 1.5k hertz repsonse, its actually a better sub than the above two, but it has half of the one way linear excursion and when they say "1000 rms" they mean 1000... you're not going to push it much if any past that limit. And for that, it gets listed 3rd here (even tho, as i said, it 'sounds' cleaner, better... just doesn't get as loud).



3- high power SPL -- MTX RFL 152, 2000 rms / 4k peak. You'll be hard pressed to find something that can out do this one, although I'm sure there are a few others that'll match it.

automaticman

you've actually heard one of the Sundstream Davincis? I've been trying to find some sort of review of them for a while. I've been planning on picking up a IDMAX 12, but I was looking at the SS Rubicons and the Davincis for a bit - they make it seem like the Davinci is their SPL sub and the Rubicon is their SQ sub, and I'm deffinately looking for SQ.

PoweredByDodge

the davinci is an spl sub as much as the adire and the ID are -- if you read reviews for either of the other two you'll see they talk about the spl performance more than the sq. why? i dunno.

the davinci sounds like a dream. looks **** as hell umounted , but sounds great. i dont know if this is true, but the owner told me you can't mount them inverted. i dont know if he was just too intimidated by the basket design or if he had an actual reason.

they really dont take the juice of the max or the adire though. but i'd venture to say they sound a hair bit better. then again, it might have been the install -- a good box sounds better than a **** one anyday.

goingganzo

check out this sub
http://www.acoustic-visions.com/tumult.htm

it is kick butt.

it has a new motor tech and a low fs.

power handleing is a stupid thing to bais your desison on. if your sub can handle 1000wats rms and gets to x max at 500 wats rms the voice coil is over done.

also check out stryke audio av12 it is prety sweet with 23mm of x max and dual 2 ohm vcs.

automaticman

man, now I gotta re-think everything again. Any idea how much airspace those Davincis like sealed. I don't have all that much room so I need to be able to fit it into a box that's not all that huge

Jstas

Originally posted by goingganzo
check out this sub
http://www.acoustic-visions.com/tumult.htm

it is kick butt.

it has a new motor tech and a low fs.

power handleing is a stupid thing to bais your desison on. if your sub can handle 1000wats rms and gets to x max at 500 wats rms the voice coil is over done.

also check out stryke audio av12 it is prety sweet with 23mm of x max and dual 2 ohm vcs.

goingganzo,
While your suggestions are very interesting and worth a good look, they are for home audio from what I have seen. They look to be excellent drivers but, the automotive environment is alot more hostile than your typical house even with kids and pets. All the theory, design and specifications are the same for both home and automotive but automotive speakers typically have a heavier constrcution and much more durable speaker materials. They aren't always the best for home audio or even as speaker materials but due to excessive vibrations, temperature extremes and generally hostile elements in the environment a car speaker needs these kinds of beefier materials and is going to be able to stand up to alot more crap that your typical home speaker.

Please do not think I am trying to trivialize you or your suggestions. They are very good suggestions and its good to have someone who understands the numbers posting about things. It certainly is welcome. I'd hate to see Cody or someone else go and spend some big bucks on one of those drivers only to have something happen to it that wouldn't normally affect an automotive-geared driver and have him be out the money and angry at the company.

Just as an example of what I am reffering to, find someone who has a pair of RT or RTi house speakers and a set of dB car speakers. They are the same speakers only the dB's have been ruggedized for automotive use. They look exactly the same except for material weight.

PoweredByDodge

i've no clue how to install a davinci - - i got close enough to listen and drool, thats about it.

Systems

ive been eyeing the id maxes
but no tengo dinero
i probably wont buy any new subs in a few years...
these momos are going to live out their full life
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

ID should start cutting me checks on a regular basis... two people from this forum have bought ID product solely on my proclaimation that its the 2nd coming of Christ... and about 10 other people on AOL have as well... yet I still can't convince my buddy John to put his two Blue Thunder 150x2's on a Max... then again he's a guy who has two pairs of subs -- set of type R's and a set of red cap Momo's and alternates upon his taste in music that day -- deep house and its the momo's .... more precise techno and its the alpines. damn nice car he's got though. Tight as hell.

If only I could find enough money to get my girl two ID-Q series 10's -- i'd be a happy camper, but alas, I'm frickin BROKE... and 150 a sub is far beyond my reaches.

If i can sell one more thing (like that amp or something for 25 - 30 bucks) then I'll have just enough to do the refit on her car... end up going with the same subs already has - the two 6000's... only good thing is then once i get some more cash -- i can just drop in newer / gooder subs and not worry about it. the rest of the car's gonna looks nice enough (and finally be done the way i want it) so i can deal with "eeh" subs until then.

I wish to god the JBL GT's came in 8 ohm or dual 4 ohm modes because they're really damn nice -- U can get two 12's for 99 bucks total// 250 rms each // 92 dbs sensitivity // and they're built like tanks and accurate as hell. I'm really standing by those as the all around best 200 - 250 watt sub on the market today. especially for the price. I'm becoming happier and happier with JBL's products as of late -- they're turning that company around in the good direction. stuff still isn't like "oscar winner" but its making a solid statement in the "Reasonable" category.