Why so much negativity?

Serendipity

This is not meant to start a flame war...

But why is there so much negativity towards DIY Custom Home Theater installation, DIY projects and the like?

A while back I posted about doing my own automated HT install (Crestron, for example) and everyone says to find an installer. Why can't I buy the stuff myself and give it a shot (even if there's a steep learning curve)? I see plenty of it on eBay and I understand you need to learn how to program Crestron systems, however it's been done before by end users successfully. Some of them don't even have a computer programming degree.

Same goes with stuff around the house and the like. I was told by a plumber not to fix my shower myself and I successfully did that, along with replacing a toilet because the drain pipe in the ground was leaking.

Heck, I asked about how to drop the transmission pan in my Nissan and I was told to take it to a mechanic. Well, I did the job myself, bought some synthetic transmission fluid ($35) and saved maybe $50-100.

So is the DIY custom HT stuff really THAT hard or are people just trying to make money?

Knucklehead

Well, I have many family members as well as neighbors who just simply cant follow simple instructions even for a HTIB. With that said, I say if you can do it yourself...go for it!

gdb

Those naysayers might just be projecting their dismay at their own ineptitude onto you. Working in the "trades", I always hear the plumbers & electricians tell me "you can't/shouldn't do that yourself ! " Proceed at your own chosen speed !!:D

Serendipity

gdb wrote: »

Those naysayers might just be projecting their dismay at their own ineptitude onto you. Working in the "trades", I always hear the plumbers & electricians tell me "you can't/shouldn't do that yourself ! " Proceed at your own chosen speed !!:D

Well, electrical work is different. If you put a 20A breaker on #14 wire, you're pretty much dead. In some old houses, people have 2 hots stuck under one breaker because the panel was full. Also pennies in the fuse box, I've heard horror stories about that too.

Serendipity

The above is really an exception, always consult with an electrician before doing electrical work!!

I'm talking general DIY besides electrical work.

Knucklehead

Yeah thats one thing I WILL call a pro for, not trying to die anytime soon.

Serendipity

Knucklehead wrote: »

Yeah thats one thing I WILL call a pro for, not trying to die anytime soon.

Definitely. I remember reading on one of the audio forums about 20A dedicated circuits - someone said to replace the 15A breakers with 20A ones if the wiring was #12 or larger.

I posted something along the lines of "Unless you can verify that ALL the wiring on that circuit is #12 or larger, that could be disastrous!"

unc2701

Crestron is not the easiest to program, but you can absolutely do it yourself... but the biggest savings is probably in pulling the wires. You don't want to pay the electricians/installers expert wage for something a monkey can do.

So I say go for it and do what you're comfortable doing. Just try to not get over your head so the expert charges you double when they have to clean up your mess.

Now there's a completely different topic here regarding DIY- when you see a guy take some SDA drivers and throw them in a center channel cabinet (ported!) with no clue whatsoever what he's doing, you kinda have to question the approach. Too often people think you can just take drivers, throw them in any box and get it to work and that's where a lot of the negativity comes from.

gdb

I guess I should have mentioned that I've educated myself exhaustively on the task at hand before performing any work. I completely rewired my 200 year old house with either MC or BX to deprive the mice of any insulation to gnaw on. Raw copper is the LAST thing I want to see up in the attic!!:eek::D

Knucklehead

gdb wrote: »

I guess I should have mentioned that I've educated myself exhaustively on the task at hand before performing any work. I completely rewired my 200 year old house with either MC or BX to deprive the mice of any insulation to gnaw on. Raw copper is the LAST thing I want to see up in the attic!!:eek::D

When my Wife and I first married we lived in an old farm house in the "boondocks" that we rented. I remember that the only types of receptacles were the 2 prong type, we had to buy some ground adapters for a few things.......long before I owned any gear.:p I think we had a 19" color tv and a set of rabbit ears, cable didnt come that far out until a year or 2 later.

gdb

My place was like that until it was re-wired by the previous owner in the early60s with the coth/paper sheathed type of Romex. The critters ate the Hell out of the outer sheathing to get to the yummy vinyl insulation treat on the inside!:mad: Everthing is up to code now;)

Serendipity

unc2701 wrote: »

Now there's a completely different topic here regarding DIY- when you see a guy take some SDA drivers and throw them in a center channel cabinet (ported!) with no clue whatsoever what he's doing, you kinda have to question the approach. Too often people think you can just take drivers, throw them in any box and get it to work and that's where a lot of the negativity comes from.

Thanks. I'm thinking about taking some Mechanical Engineering electives at my school to learn more about sound waves, etc. and box design.

megasat16

gdb wrote: »

I guess I should have mentioned that I've educated myself exhaustively on the task at hand before performing any work. I completely rewired my 200 year old house with either MC or BX to deprive the mice of any insulation to gnaw on. Raw copper is the LAST thing I want to see up in the attic!!:eek::D

Just curious any haunting in that 200 years old house? I'd thought most houses would collapse in 200 years. A lot of maintenance needs to be done for a house this old. Is it a brick house?

steveinaz

Screw them buddy, do your thing!

madmax

I used to want to DIY on everything because I couldn't afford it any other way. At some point I realized if I wanted truely great aesthics then I would have to have someone else do it. Now, I realize if I want the ultimate sound presentations I have to do it myself. We all run in phases I guess.
madmax

Serendipity

madmax wrote: »

I used to want to DIY on everything because I couldn't afford it any other way. At some point I realized if I wanted truely great aesthics then I would have to have someone else do it. Now, I realize if I want the ultimate sound presentations I have to do it myself. We all run in phases I guess.
madmax

Aren't you the guy with the heavily modified Scion xB? That car is awesome!!

reeltrouble1

App,

I did my entire Reel Time Theater, it kicks ****, better than most, the equal to any as far as SQ and its got some fancy pants looks to bootl...Rock ON and do your thing its much easier than say.....oh earning your degree......anybody gives you crap tell em RT1 has something for them.......its long, hard and full of seamen and it aint no submarine.

I ought to have one of them damm HGTV shows about keeping dough out of some dumbass installers pocket.

RT1

Serendipity

Thanks! Over the past few years, my HT related projects have been: installing an OTA rooftop antenna, basement renovations, wiring up the media room and working on the ceiling (still doing that!)

Most everything has come out GREAT so far!

rayslifecycle

If a professional tradesman tells you not to do something yourself - they are just protecting their jobs - can't blame them for that - and in all fairness - they will do it faster and better then the person doing the project the first time......hence "professional".......

I find most people are not capable of doing it themselves because they simply do not work hard enough to figure it out.......or are simply too scared of failing to try.......

I am a big fan of doing everything yourself - it is the only way to become self reliant. Learn learn and learn some more.........I have failed plenty....learned something new each time.....and still have all my fingers:D

gdb

megasat16 wrote: »

Just curious any haunting in that 200 years old house? I'd thought most houses would collapse in 200 years. A lot of maintenance needs to be done for a house this old. Is it a brick house?

Never had any "visits"....yet. It is two log cabins that were later joined together to create an L shaped house, the first section,according to records, was built around 1740 or so. The corner section joining the two, is post and beam construction,was done in the late 1800s.

megasat16

So, it is essentially a Log House? Any log house that old is Very Cool! But I wonder why there is no visit yet. Is the neighboring houses that old too? It's one place I need to make a visit in the future.

megasat16

appadv wrote: »

Thanks! Over the past few years, my HT related projects have been: installing an OTA rooftop antenna, basement renovations, wiring up the media room and working on the ceiling (still doing that!)

Most everything has come out GREAT so far!

I always try to do DIY if I can and when I can. As the saying goes - if you want to do something right, Do It Yourself!

reeltrouble1

faster...maybe, better..........waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, generally construction types suffer from serious substance abuse problems, lack of benefits (so they self medicate), piecework pay and lousy work ethics.......get in get out and never use a condom..........of course you can now look on the Internet and aunt Mabel or something will send you a five star contractor, sure.......

one disclaimer

---

I am talking about primarily about the South where labor and illegal's are plentiful and do work cheap, I did work for some large construction companies in Chicago, where unionized the pay was good and the benefits fine but the quality of work was still only what the inspector wanted and that is it.

audio installs I have seen done by contractor's have pretty much been crap for folks who honestly do not know any better.

Its a damm shame, a shame I tell you. An **** Clown from a large local electrical contractor visited the Loft recently, I did not feel like pulling my dedicated line through the crawl space in my attic. Not much of problem project though, about 150.00 total for nice electrical parts.......the bid for a one day job..........waaaaaaaaaaaaaa 2600.00.

RT1

gdb

Most of the surrounding houses are really recent. (Civil War era):)

megasat16

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

about 150.00 total for nice electrical parts.......the bid for a one day job..........waaaaaaaaaaaaaa 2600.00.

RT1

So, you hired him?

gdb

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

faster...maybe, better..........waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, generally construction types suffer from serious substance abuse problems, lack of benefits (so they self medicate), piecework pay and lousy work ethics.......get in get out and never use a condom..........of course you can now look on the Internet and aunt Mabel or something will send you a five star contractor, sure.......

one disclaimer

---

I am talking about primarily about the South where labor and illegal's are plentiful and do work cheap, I did work for some large construction companies in Chicago, where unionized the pay was good and the benefits fine but the quality of work was still only what the inspector wanted and that is it.

audio installs I have seen done by contractor's have pretty much been crap for folks who honestly do not know any better.

Its a damm shame, a shame I tell you. An **** Clown from a large local electrical contractor visited the Loft recently, I did not feel like pulling my dedicated line through the crawl space in my attic. Not much of problem project though, about 150.00 total for nice electrical parts.......the bid for a one day job..........waaaaaaaaaaaaaa 2600.00.






RT1

Where you at?? I'll come fix you up for$2595.99!! That electrician MUST have been high on sumthin!!:eek:

reeltrouble1

megasat16 wrote: »

So, you hired him?

yea, and invited him to dinner........

Oh, I forgot the best part, that was for a surface mount on the outlet.....

gdb....I could buy you a first class ticket out of o'hare and still save thousands.....

hey.....that ole Marantz still ticking????

RT1

gdb

Never owned any Marantz gear, although I'd like to some day.:)

madmax

appadv wrote: »

Aren't you the guy with the heavily modified Scion xB? That car is awesome!!

Oh yes, it is true awesomeness.

madmax

polrbehr

Hey, I 've seen some of your work, App, you're fine.

And you know you always have a wealth of untapped knowledge at your disposal, too. (never said modest, right?)

mmadden28

I do DIY wherever possible and where I am capable. I am also in the camp that if you want something done right do it yourself. I'm not bashing any professional industry as a whole here, but I just seem to get the short end of the stick whenever I cave in and hire a pro. So I dread the thought of having somebody else do it for me whe I am perfectly capable-Maybe I'd feel like lesser of a man and less of a provider for my family--who knows.
Maybe I expect too much, but I really don't. I expect to get the service that I paid for-not half assed quality or workmanship. More often than not I am finding some of the pros I hire, based on reputation, get big enough that they have to hire subs and they can't directly control thier subs---The poor workmanship may not be indicitive of that pros usual work, but I usually seem to get the new guy, or the lazy guy, etc.

I mean I don't even like to accept free labor from friends if I am not familiar enough with their skillset. Its not even about money there.


Again, every situation is different. Hire a pro if it suits you and if you can afford to. If you like DIY or can't afford to do the project otherwise-go for it.

All just MHO