relationship - ohms to speakers

meriwether

I have a Denon DRA775RD and want to get new small speakers that will deliver sound in a 30' X 20' room. I don't want to blow out (artisitic -maybe Anthony Gallo or Orb Audio?) speakers that are too small and I don't want to burn out the channels in the receiver. I cannot (easily) find the ohm output on the receiver... I am guessing it is 16 ohms...?? But how big do the speakers need to be for the room and to handle output from the receiver?

I am a novice and I really need help. I also really need to get rid of these big box speakers I have and replace them with artistically designed small speakers.

MM

apphd

Here is a link to the manual. You're looking at 90w into 8 ohms. I guess it depends on what you consider "small", and "deliver sound in a 30' X 20' room"
Physical size has little to do with how much power a speaker can handle or how much sound they can produce. It is not totally unrelated but do not get too hung up on that. You will want something pretty easy to drive (around a 90dB efficiency or higher rating and 100w max power rating. IMHO you will not be able to fill that room with sound with that rec. and a pair of bookshelf speakers. You will be able to have good sound at relatively near field listening locations though.

http://usa.denon.com/dra775r_productsheet.pdf

BTW welcome to CP

meriwether

Apphd.....Thanks so much for helping me. So, I can just get 2 round artistic little speakers on stands like the Anthony Gallo or Orb (or maybe you know something better or less $$) and even if they are just 8ohms I am not going to burn up the channels or blow the speakers trying to get music/ ballgame in this 30' X 20" room? You make it sound like I might just be free to get what looks good and I will be OK. The speakers I am replacing are Polk Audio Monitor Series 5JR 51886. Does that change the scenario or make any difference.?

I have another problem I need help on. I want to take these Polk Audio speakers to another venue and use them there with a Denon DRA345R. What do you think about that.?

MM

apphd

Wow
"I might just be free to get what looks good and I will be OK."
Sorry if it sounded like that was what I was saying. What I was trying to say was you will need to be very selective in finding a speaker to give you good results.

Now that you say what you are trying to replace, Monitor 5JR, I think it will be very hard. The specs on that 90 dB sensitivity 20w-100w recommended power was exactly like what I was referring to earlier. Their physical size is not (to me) really overwhelming. But now we have a reference as to what small, or at least what too large is.

Again, so we might have a better understanding of what your expectations might be, when you say "trying to get music/ ballgame in this 30' X 20" room" and "speakers that will deliver sound in a 30' X 20' room" are you expecting these to be at one end of the room and be able to hear them well/enjoyably at the other end of the room?

Not really familiar with the Anthony Gallo or Orb but personally doubt if they would do it. Have you heard them? If so did they have performance/sound you liked? Of the two I would say maybe the Orbs would have the better chance. Do you plan on adding a sub as well?

As far as the Monitor 5s and the 345 (maybe a little under powered) give it a try, if your happy with it then you're good to go.

kcoc321

Meriwether,
I definitely would recommend auditioning them before your purchase.

While the Orbs have gotten rave reviews, they say, I have heard them at my bother-in-laws and I was not too impressed. They sufice, and are better than the built-in speakers on his tv (lol) BUT I liked my 5jr (even with SL2000 tweets) much more over them. And that is just for HT. For Music, it would be torture...IMHO

IF you go that way, they definitely need a really good sub, or two, as they are only 80hz speakers, at best (their specs say a x-over at 120hz is better)

Given their price at $800 (msrp) for the Mod1 and an 8"sub, I think you could do much better.....just my opinion. Not wanting to deter you if you have your heart set on them, they are definitely "low-impact" as they are only 4.25" dia each.....

Here is a link to their spec page...
http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=25

meriwether

Apphd,

Thanks for your patience. I expect to position the speakers apart but not at one end of the room....more in the middle but separated. Since kcoc321 wrote to me suggesting that the Orbs were not suitable for my purposes, I talked to someone at Bose about the 161 series. They are small (not as small as Orbs) but the sales person claims that they will take the place of the Polk Audio 5JRs nicely and give me a smaller pair of things in my room. He says they do not require a sub....?? I have looked at the manual on-line to find the info on watts and efficiency...things that you mentioned to me. I found none of this info in the manual that was available on-line. He also says that 12 years ago when I bought these Polk Audio speakers, they were not the high end of Polk but a mid-range speaker in terms of quality (and probably price?). So, since my expectations are about there....he thinks the Bose will not disappoint given what I am used to. What do you think.?

I am too old to want to crank up the music and blast myself....but I do sometimes get the bug to do just that (my neighbors must think I am in some mid-life crisis)...but this is really rare.

Then the Polk 5JRs I am going to take to a room that is only 25' by 15' to replace some speakers I pretty much blew out in my youth 30 years ago and the 25 yr old daughter finished off a couple of weeks ago. They will be used with the Denon DRA345R. So when you say that they will be alittle UNder powered...what exactly do you mean. I think I mentioned that I am a novice.
Meriwether

meriwether

kcoc321,

Thanks for your opinion. I am investigating Bose 161 speakers as they are smaller ...not 4" round...but smaller than what I have. I am hoping that they are suitable but the manual available on-line does not give me any specs. These would replace the Polk Audio 5JRs and connect to a Denon DRA775RD. Please see what I wrote to Apphd.

I am really appreciative of all the help I am getting here. I am a bit afraid that salesmen might just sell me what they have and I will be really "screwed".

Meriwether

kcoc321

Meriwether,
Dude I definitely did not intent to steer you to the Dark side......Bose

I said "I" did not find the Orbs fulfilling enough...but I should have clarified,
I listen to my Mon 7's driven by a 150wpc B&K separate amp.... and my taste may not be yours....

I know you want smaller speakers, but what about the RTi3's?
They retail for about the same as the orbs... Or for a litle bit more a pair of LSi9's?
Have you heard either of them?
I would recommend listening to anything before you buy them.

You could always get some artistic stands...to fulfill that side of things.

Bubinga99

You can roughly figure out how to match the amp to the speaker if you have some idea how loud you want it.

110 dB is pretty freakin loud in an average size family room in a house. If you want your ears to bleed, use 120 dB as your goal. If you want respectable non-teenager loudness, 105-110 dB is probably fine. Let's say 110dB just to run the numbers.

Next, find a speaker you like, and find its rated sound pressure level (SPL), and also find how it was measured (most commonly it's with 1 watt input, 1 meter straight away from the speaker). If the speaker manufacturer uses a different test condition, like 10 watts, you have to adjust the calculations.

OK, so 110 dB SPL is the target loudness, and a candidate speaker produces let's say 84 dB SPL with 1 watt input, according to its spec sheet.

It's easiest just to point you to an online calculator. Here's one: http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

Enter 1 in listener distance and 110 in desired SPL and and 84 (or whatever the speaker spec sheet says) in sensitivity, enter 0 in amp headroom if you want to just squeek by, and the result is you need about a 400 W amp with that speaker (and the amp load rating matched to the speaker).

--or--
in terms of the amp you have (90 W into 8 ohms) you want an 8 ohm speaker with at least a 91 dB SPL rating with 1 W input.

apphd

kcoc321 wrote: »

Meriwether,
Dude I definitely did not intent to steer you to the Dark side......Bose.................Have you heard either of them?
I would recommend listening to anything before you buy them...........

+1 best advice that can be given.
Meriwether, do you have some outlets near by you that you can hear a couple different speakers before making your decision? What I was able to find was they have two 2.5" drivers per speaker in a 4"x11"x5" ported cabinet. Suggested amp = 10-100 w 4-8 ohms. I will be the first to tell you my audio knowledge is pretty limited, but I find it hard to believe that you will get much base from those Bose, physics just has to come into play IMHO, but since I have never heard them I can't say you will not. The 4-8 ohm rating has me a little concerned, if Bose would be a little more forthright and conventional in their specs it would help. I would guess if they rated them with a nominal impedance it would be 6 ohms, but that is a pure guess. I think a speaker has to stay within 80% of its stated nominal impedance throughout the freq. range. Maybe those fluctuate too much to get a 6 ohm rating I don't know.

Go out and audition some small speakers in your area and when you find some you like the sound, come back and ask what we think. kcoc's suggested RTiA-3's are a good starting point.

Sorry to cut it short but I need to get my son to bed.

meriwether

OK... I think the only thing by me is a Best Buy. What are these RTiA-3's ...I will call Best Buy and see if someone there can help me....and ask about these RTiA-3's .

So Bose is really not a good product.?? Or is it just these small speakers that are not good. I was thinking I got everything......cheap.!! ha...and small. Geez....this is complicated...thanks for calculator. MM

ben62670

No highs no lows must be bose. Great marketing, but lame products.

cfrizz

Welcome Meriwether.

What you have to remember is that those small Bose cubes can only go so high & so low & will leave out MOST of what is in the music to hear. They were invented to appease women who wanted small, cute, & hideable, but didn't give a rats **** on how they sounded.

So the question is 1. do you REALLY want to hear the music or 2. just have something that looks good & is really small?

If the answer is 1 then get some real speakers or keep what you already have. Or spend a lot of money on small, looks good & sounds like crap but has a "name & a great marketing dept."

kcoc321

meriwether wrote: »

OK... I think the only thing by me is a Best Buy. What are these RTiA-3's ...I will call Best Buy and see if someone there can help me....and ask about these RTiA-3's .

These are the RTiA3's

link:
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/rtia/index.php?s=rtia3
specs page:
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/rtia/specs.php#bookshelf

Bubinga99

Quite a few Polk models with free shipping and/or discounts and/or promo codes at Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000494&Description=polk&name=Home%20Audio%20Speakers

Newegg is one of the best online retailers in my view (tho I've never bought speakers from them), and if nothing else their website is a good place to look through the Polk line, with specs and reviews

meriwether

Thanks guys. OK ...forget Bose.!! Got it loud and clear.!! Good thing you al responded before I got in the car.!!

OK...what about the Monitor 30s. I have found some refurbished ones from Polk. Size is great. I already have Monitor 5JRs that these would replace. Don't think I can go hear them....and I don't know if I go to hear new ones if that would give me a fair representation of what these would sound like. Someone told me the old Polk speakers are better quality than the ones made in the last 5 yrs or so. What about that.?

Monitor 30 specs are
Measure 7 in x 8.4 in x 11 in
3db freq response 63 - 24000 Hz
8 Ohm
sensitivity 89 dB
rec amp power = 20- 100 watts
Driver Details - Right/left channel speaker : 1 x Tweeter driver - 1 in - Polymer composite , Right/left channel speaker : 1 x Woofer driver - 5.25 in

Please weigh in and if I should try to hear these even though they would be new ones where as what I would buy are older ones refurbished when I go hear the -hopefully - RTiA-3's. I looked these up so now I at least know they are Polk as well.

The Monitor 30s come with a warranty...looks like from Polk Audio. hhhmmm.. Does that mean they refurbished them with new parts which is like getting a current day product instead of the supposedly older ones that are meant to be better quality.?

The Monitor 30s are only 89db...but am I getting closer to getting a good product to pair with my Denon DRA775RD at a reasonable price or just making things more complicated.? Meriwether

mmadden28

If your trying to go sleek and stay in the Polk line--check out the RM and VM series.

Also check out Polkdirect on eBay and Newegg for some good deals.

meriwether

mmadden28,
Thanks for the tip on the Polk VM series. They are really amazing looking and would no doubt be better than what I am looking at...but the $2,000 price tag is not doable at the moment.

M

meriwether

OK, so 110 dB SPL is the target loudness, and a candidate speaker produces let's say 84 dB SPL with 1 watt input, according to its spec sheet.

It's easiest just to point you to an online calculator. Here's one: http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

--or--
in terms of the amp you have (90 W into 8 ohms) you want an 8 ohm speaker with at least a 91 dB SPL rating with 1 W input.[/QUOTE]

SO DOES THE MONITOR 30 work with only 89db with my 90W DRA-775RD? Looks like it does to me. I am going to try to find new ones and hear them....I don't have high hopes for getting to hear all this stuff unless I travel a distance outside of town. M

cfrizz

You will be just fine with either pair of Polks.

mmadden28

meriwether wrote: »

mmadden28,
Thanks for the tip on the Polk VM series. They are really amazing looking and would no doubt be better than what I am looking at...but the $2,000 price tag is not doable at the moment.

M

Keep your eye out for some deals--The VM 30s were selling new for about $300 each If I remember correctly at some crazy NewEgg sale a few months ago (could have been $400 I forget). The VM 20s were $200 each (or was it $150). Right now on Polk's site on eBay the VM30s are $900 for a pair.

Don't discount buying used either. Yuo can get some really killer deals that way.

You may also consider in-walls too.

apphd

meriwether wrote: »

Thanks guys. OK ...forget Bose.!! Got it loud and clear.!! Good thing you al responded before I got in the car.!!
I think you will be happiest with this decision

Someone told me the old Polk speakers are better quality than the ones made in the last 5 yrs or so. What about that.?
I think many would share this oppinion, but it is subjective to personel tastes. The older Polks were definetly different than todays Polks

Please weigh in and if I should try to hear these......Definetly hear what you can. Let members here know what you heard, and what others you might consider and someone here has probably heard them both and can give you their impressions on the difference in sound.
The Monitor 30s come with a warranty...looks like from Polk Audio. hhhmmm.. Does that mean they refurbished them with new parts which is like getting a current day product instead of the supposedly older ones that are meant to be better quality.?
Most times these speakers are reletivly new, to brand new but returned for some reason (real or imagined take your pick). If there was something that needed to be replaced/repaired it was.

The Monitor 30s are only 89db...but am I getting closer to getting a good product to pair with my Denon DRA775RD at a reasonable price or just making things more complicated.? Meriwether

Yes this, IMHO is a better direction than you were going.

meriwether wrote: »

mmadden28,
Thanks for the tip on the Polk VM series. They are really amazing looking and would no doubt be better than what I am looking at...but the $2,000 price tag is not doable at the moment.

M

There is a pair of VM 10s on Polk Direct now for $250. I think (because of the size) these were what mmadden might have been talking about. Not the VM 20s or VM 30s. Again unless you are planning on adding a sub woofer I do not think you will get enogh base out of these alone.

meriwether wrote: »

t.

SO DOES THE MONITOR 30 work with only 89db with my 90W DRA-775RD? Looks like it does to me. I am going to try to find new ones and hear them....I don't have high hopes for getting to hear all this stuff unless I travel a distance outside of town. M[/QUOTE]
Yes the Monitor 30 will work with your receiver. You might not hear the Monitor 30 at best Buy, they will probably have the TSi line, the TSi 100 would be very similar to the Monitor 30.