Choosing a tube amp

kawizx9r

Like many of you know, this hobby knows no bounds and it's an absolute must to experience more and more gear to see what ultimately 'satisfies' you before you find something even better.

I love the sound tubes reproduce and would like to stick with it regarding 2 channel listening. Question is, when selecting am amp (yes this is pretty vague), how do I know whether or not its power is enough to run my SDA 1C's or something just as power hungry in the future?

I know there are different class-type amplifiers, but how do you know it'll be enough if it doesn't state what class type it is? Don't get me wrong, I love my Moscode hybrid but curiousity is nudging me and I want to get my ears on other said amps such as these things -

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1255743754&/Jolida-JD-502P-60-watt/ch-Powe

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1256159487&/Dynaco-Triode-St-70-Maroom-and

I don't plan on getting another amp just yet, and yes I know that for my SDA's I'd need a common ground amp I'm just a bit worried about choosing something that'll work well. This purchase won't be done for another few months, but it'll come thats for sure.

AudioGenics

PM sent....

kawizx9r

PM replied to.

Anyone else? What would be a determining factor for some of you to pick up an amp if you're going to use it on larger speakers?

treitz3

Can it handle the current, are the tubes readily available or hard to find, does the amp have different ohm taps? Price/budget and other factors as well.

Just FYI, an Anthem1 amp can make those bad boys produce some magic if all conditions are right. 40 watts of blissful tube power.

kawizx9r

treitz3 wrote: »

Can it handle the current, are the tubes readily available or hard to find, does the amp have different ohm taps? Price/budget and other factors as well.

Just FYI, an Anthem1 amp can make those bad boys produce some magic if all conditions are right. 40 watts of blissful tube power.

See I didn't even take those factors into consideration. I'm still extremely new to the world of tubes as far as owning any of them. I just want my first all-tube amp experience to be a good one, and wondering what brands I should look into when buying used at around $700-$1100. Push-pull configs and the sort are all foreign to me so I'd like a little bit of education :rolleyes:

The Moscode so far? It's running freaking awesome right now and continues to please

Edit: Found an Anthem amp 1 on the gon, is this the one you referred to?
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1255822621&/Anthem-Amp-1-Sweet-modded-EL34

treitz3

Yes, that's the one. However, the "front" pic has me a little concerned. It looks like it took a tumble at one point. Everything should be straight and not misaligned. 40-60 well designed tube watts on a 4 ohm tap should get you going in the right direction. I wouldn't worry too much about the push-pull thing if you are starting out. The more you learn and experience, the more you will decide on which way to go on that aspect.

There are many members here that have had that exact speaker hooked up to tube amps that I have not had the pleasure to listen too. Have patience [which it sound like you have] and do some research before you pull the trigger. You may love the first tube amp you run across, you may not. Only your ears can decide that. The good thing about tubes is that you can somewhat tailor your preferences to your liking by rolling some tubes.

I do know that the Anthem1 can do some magic. How? I'm enjoying the sounds right now and yes......I have rolled the tubes to my liking. Trace Adkins sounds real nice as I enjoy my night.

Listen to other folks that chime in for suggestions. We were all blind at one point when it came to tubes. Good luck, happy hunting and the most important thing? Have fun on your tubed audio journey.

comfortablycurt

FWIW, I found my rig to sound amazing with a tubed pre(Dodd ELP) and a SS amp(Adcom 545). Driving SDA 2A's. That's another option you might want to consider. It gives you the tube warmth and musicality, but the current and low end slam of a solid state amp.

That said, I do plan on trying a tube amp sometime down the line. After the source, the next upgrade in my 2 channel is going to be a tubed pre. Most likely a Dared SL-2000A...but possibly another Dodd ELP.

kawizx9r

comfortablycurt wrote: »

FWIW, I found my rig to sound amazing with a tubed pre(Dodd ELP) and a SS amp(Adcom 545). Driving SDA 2A's. That's another option you might want to consider. It gives you the tube warmth and musicality, but the current and low end slam of a solid state amp.

That said, I do plan on trying a tube amp sometime down the line. After the source, the next upgrade in my 2 channel is going to be a tubed pre. Most likely a Dared SL-2000A...but possibly another Dodd ELP.

Hey curt, that was the first suggestion I was given. Tubed pre, and a decent solid state amp. I was looking around, inquiring about amps/etc until I landed the deal with my amp. Tube sound, but with the fundamentals of an SS amp. It's capable of doing 4 to 8 ohm loads, and gives my sda's plenty of juice to make them sing. I can't find any for sale when I look online, and have read quite a bit of history about them which makes me want to just keep it for good. It was my first dive into separates ya know, and its something different

I will however take my time and listen to what everyone has to say to help me make my decision, (because I like to) I'll immediately post pics and then follow up with a review a week or 2 into it.

george daniel

I noticed that you are running a NYAL Moscode,, what pre and source are/will you use in the SDA 2 ch rig?

reeltrouble1

OK, as you are finding out the sand amp's and tubes are different animals so to speak, of course someone may chirp about a watt being a watt and all that is fine but there are fundamental differences. The Polk SDA series is NOT hard to drive, the whole 200 watts a channel ss amplifier thing was based on how the ss amps work, bottom line is ss amps sound best when played loudly and to play loudly they need the current to do so without clipping.

I have run 1C's with a 20 watt tube amp (manely stingray) they sounded pristine, no problems getting them to sing, most tube amps like a smooth impedance curve, there are just things you can do with voltage swings and tubes, each listener is unique and you either dig the tubes or you do not, however the differences between the two seem to disappearing with hybrid designs such as your Moscode as well as advances in both types of amplifiers, follow your path and trust what you hear. My personal opinion is Manley trumps Jolida but you decide, others might be, Cary, VTL, BAT, ARC, Vincent, Antique Sound Lab, just depends on overall budget. I would look for something with either an auto-bias circuit or at least individual bias for each output tube, there are some older models where you cannot adjust each output tube individually and have to worry about tube wear and matching yada yada. A few new models with money hungry vendors who make you send it back for bias adjustment (ridiculous). Don't be afraid of a bit of local negative feedback in the design, I used to swear by zero feedback but and still prefer it but I have found a bit of negative feedback used judiciously is fine, you want as few gain stages as possible and of course nice power supplies.

Remember if you go mono-blocks you have to use the AI-1 interconnect.

Stay cool and you won't sweat, and Go BEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RT1

kawizx9r

george daniel wrote: »

I noticed that you are running a NYAL Moscode,, what pre and source are/will you use in the SDA 2 ch rig?

I was using a Kenwood C-1 pre (something very entry level) when I first got it but for about 2-3 weeks now I'm using my Denon 2805 as a pre. Running it in Pure Direct mode with a Denon DVD2800 as the source and it sounds sweet

Reeltrouble, I read that whole thread I think you're referring to about watts not all being the same....but then others saying it is.

Don't want this thread to turn out that way but I don't mind a little input really on the matter.

I looked at those Stingrays, and have been checking out Jolida's smaller amps and a few other brands mentioned on here and they look very promising. It's just when looking at these things, I notice theyre different configs, you have different ohm taps, triode or tetroid modes or whatever it is. All that stuff throws me way off and I have nowhere else to turn to for that sort of stuff.

As stated before, there's no rush.

Here's my Moscode with a few mods and upgrades george


Alot of the imperfections is dust

bikerboy

Hi,
I had a tube pre and SS amp setup before and thought is sounded good. Like you I wanted a better sound and ended up with a integrated Jolida 502 that I modded and made into a power amp like the first amp you posted at AG. I have been very happy with the amp. If I could have bought a Manley, BAT, Cary or VTL instead of the Jolida at the same price I would have. Doro had a Jolida at a very good price so that was it. The Jolida is "only" 50 watts per ch but it moves the sda-2 just fine. Someday I would like to get a BAT VK 60. The moscode is a fine amp so you will need to move up a bit to find a noticable improvement in SQ. The build quality will probably be better on the US made amps but I think if its point to point wired that would be best in a tube amp. I also think the little camp fire effect of the open glowing tubes is very cool. Have fun on the trip down the rabbit hole.

F1nut

Any tube amp except SET and OTL types will work with your SDA's.

That said, may I suggest you look into replacing your pre and source before doing anything else.

kawizx9r

F1nut wrote: »

Any tube amp except SET and OTL types will work with your SDA's.

That said, may I suggest you look into replacing your pre and source before doing anything else.

I considered that, getting a pre dedicated for music.

I had that going for a bit until I decided to incorporate my SDA's as part of my HT, and then moving my RT's to surround duty.

You're suggesting I'm looking at the wrong place to start then right? I'm open to suggestions regarding a tube pre then, as for the source I'm just borrowing it but it sounds really nice compared to another player I had.

george daniel

kawizx9r wrote: »

I considered that, getting a pre dedicated for music.

I had that going for a bit until I decided to incorporate my SDA's as part of my HT, and then moving my RT's to surround duty.

You're suggesting I'm looking at the wrong place to start then right? I'm open to suggestions regarding a tube pre then, as for the source I'm just borrowing it but it sounds really nice compared to another player I had.

Jesse makes a good point/suggestion,, start with the source and pre,, you may find that the amp needs to stay just where it's at.Nothing wrong with that Moscode,,and Jesse ain't gonna steer you wrong. Good luck.

reeltrouble1

I read about your Moscode previously and it does seem to be a fine amplifier so you are going to have to spend the dough amplifier-wise to get to another level, the suggestion about the pre is a good one, perhaps with your configuration a tubed pre with an HT by-pass, I sure wish Gary Dodd was still making those little ELP's, great little preamp. The only tubed pre's with by-pass I ever owned were made by him the ELP and MLP, perhaps one of the other members might have a suggestion for tubed by-pass at reasonable costs, seems I recall Jolida had one, if so that would be a logical step, maybe Joule??

I used those Dodd's the ELP and MLP exactly as you are thinking of doing, a 2ch inside a HT with Polk SRS-SDA as my fronts, I used a ss amp the same B&K I still have in my HT, it was reeeeeely good sounding, the only way I could go on from there was with totally seperate rigs, which as you see I did. As far as source, well, I am certainly in the camp of the best you can get, fact is Jesse and I use the same source, but you do not have to spend thousands for a source right away and if there was a place where I might consider no tube it would be the source but I would make sure the source was known as focusing on music and just music, no integrated circuits, if you go for a universal it should have discreet circuits for each format.

RT1

kawizx9r

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I read about your Moscode previously and it does seem to be a fine amplifier so you are going to have to spend the dough to get to another level, the suggestion about the pre is a good one, perhaps with your configuration a tubed pre with an HT by-pass, I sure wish Gary Dodd was still making those little ELP's, great little preamp. The only tubed pre's with by-pass I ever owned were made by him the ELP and MLP, perhaps one of the other members might have a suggestion for tubed by-pass at reasonable costs, seems I recall Jolida had one, if so that would be a logical step, maybe Joule??

RT1

That sounds more like something I'd use, with the HT-bypass and whatnot. How much would something like that run me on the used market for lets say, a Jolida (if they have one) or one from Joule used?

Edit: Also have to take into consideration about tubes available/etc when choosing a tubed pre now, bias as well right? Anything else to consider?

A fellow member on here biased/set my amp up for me since I don't know how to do such things....yet.

reeltrouble1

Here you go, dont know why I forgot about Conrad-Johnson, but this one will certainly do the trick.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41729

here is one for sale

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1255050064&/Conrad-Johnson-PV-14L-Preampli

you do not have to worry about biasing tubes for the pre-amps, its a power amp output tube thing.

RT1

george daniel

Modwright, Belles,,Dodd MLP and I know of one ELP that has the HT bypass,,specifically,,Belles 20 and 21A have the bypass feature,,Tom's MLP, and my brothers ELP also,, Good luck

Face

You can add HT Bypass to a preamp that doesn't have one.

Another cost effect route would be to go with a passive preamp with HT Bypass, I believe Goldpoint still makes a few units with that feature.

kawizx9r

Those are some really nice pre's there but I'm seeing them at a minimum of $1,200. I was hoping to spend somewhere around $900 at most if I got a pre. That kind of component would make me want to switch around and upgrade my other components as well lol......when does it end?!

But seriously I'll check those that you have all mentioned, and find something that I think will suite my needs. If it comes down to 2 or 3 of them I'll ask on here for a recommendation.

Face, how would one add this bypass feature for ones that don't have it built in? Is it pricey? If it's not then I would think that's a better alternative because I can look at a wider variety of pre's. Thanks to everyone so far.

-Freddy

Face

Sorry, I thought I included the link in my post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15763&highlight=home+theater+bypass

madmax

kawizx9r wrote: »

That kind of component would make me want to switch around and upgrade my other components as well lol......when does it end?!

-Freddy

So far as I know it doesn't. And I'm glad about that.

kawizx9r

I just wanted to add I started reading about passive pre's since Face mentioned it. Here's a little bit of what it's saying -

"There are some significant advantages using a passive volume control:
Cost savings. A very high quality passive volume control is cheaper than even low quality preamplifiers.
Improved sound quality. The non-linearities, noise and distortion from the preamplifier are avoided. Even the most expensive preamplifiers add coloration and distortion to the sound."

They refer it to a 'volume control' because of this -
"Actually, the term "passive preamp" is slightly misleading. The word preamp or preamplifier is not supposed to be a passive device, as a passive device may not provide amplification. So a better term than passive preamp would be passive volume control or passive control center."

I'd need more than just...short interconnects (with low capacitance) for this to work right? Reading about attenuators with low resistance value. If I'm reading something way off, let me know since I'm just trying to educate myself as much as I can without having to ask a billion questions on here.

Face

I've had a few passive rigs and never needed attenuators. I would keep the interconnects as short as possible though.

kawizx9r

Face wrote: »

I've had a few passive rigs and never needed attenuators. I would keep the interconnects as short as possible though.

Hmm, passive seems a bit more forgiving for my wallet
I'd say any extra money saved I'd get a good set of short IC's, maybe something Ben can take care of?

Face

One thing at a time.

reeltrouble1

kawizx9r wrote: »

That kind of component would make me want to switch around and upgrade my other components as well lol......when does it end?!

Welcome to the front door of the Rabbit Hole, hold on tight, its one heck of a ride but oh its sounds so nice.

RT1

F1nut

Another pre amp choice for you in your price range, the VTL 2.5. You'll have to add the HT bypass.

Don't forget, it all starts with the source.

kawizx9r

F1nut wrote: »

Another pre amp choice for you in your price range, the VTL 2.5. You'll have to add the HT bypass.

Don't forget, it all starts with the source.

Hmmm...looking at my sig what would you think is my weakest link, or weaker shall I say. Using my receiver as a pre or the player I'm currently using (Denon DVD2800).

I'm getting several PMs offering further advice covering particular areas, and I appreciate that as well. I'm hoping I can get a good pre without breaking the bank too much, but dont worry I'm not gonna buy something JUST because its cheap. The limit can change, especially if I wait an added month or so. My $900 might end up coming out to $1300 and I'm ok with that.

F1nut

kawizx9r wrote: »

Hmmm...looking at my sig what would you think is my weakest link, or weaker shall I say. Using my receiver as a pre or the player I'm currently using (Denon DVD2800).

Hmmmm....tough call, but I'm going to suggest upgrading your pre amp first as the benefits of a new source would most likely be lost on the receiver.

I'm getting several PMs offering further advice covering particular areas, and I appreciate that as well. I'm hoping I can get a good pre without breaking the bank too much, but dont worry I'm not gonna buy something JUST because its cheap. The limit can change, especially if I wait an added month or so. My $900 might end up coming out to $1300 and I'm ok with that.

What, are they afraid to post their suggestions on the forum???