bi-amp or bridge

maandjojo

On a pair of Sda Srs 2.3tl's using two Adcom 555II, would it be better to bi-amp or bridge mono. I know what each does but which gives you better all around sound? I have always done the basic hookup but looking to upgrade to something better. All comments welcome.
I did a double post, I hope thats not a problem with the forum police.

Thanx,
Joe

TNRabbit

I didn't think you could bi-amp SDAs....? If I'm wrong, someone will correct me ASAP~

george daniel

Bridging 555's on 2.3tl,,sucks--don't waste your time.
Bridging in general has been my least pleasant audio experience.
Good luck,,

nooshinjohn

bridging with SDA's is a very bad idea, likely to end with smoking amps and dead speakers.

gdb

I'm still not too sure how it's done, but, my pin/blade SRS2s have dual binding posts with jumpers between them and are supposedly bi-ampable. Maybe the special A-1 (?) interconnect cable is required or possibly, some combining of the neg.- speaker outputs. Also, can it be vertical or horizontal, or either method ? FWIW, everything I've ever read/heard about bridging a 2ch. amp has been that it's more power, but it's at the cost of sound quality and very hard on the amp, especially with less than an 8ohm load. Maybe DarqueKnight will tell us, I'm sure he knows the answers!:)

michaeljhsda2

nooshinjohn wrote: »

bridging with SDA's is a very bad idea, likely to end with smoking amps and dead speakers.

...but not if he uses an AI-1 interconnect cable or custom built AI-1 dreadnaught.

BTW, nice conversation with you yesterday and my offer to help you with auditioning vinyl from the Record Exchange still stands.
http://www.recordexchangestl.com
Mike

maandjojo

First off you must always remove those jumpers or your speakers will be history. In one of the manuals it talks about bi-amping, so I'm sure you can do it. It should be passive bi-amping because of sda you need th passive crossover in the speakers. Thanks John no bridging then. By the way John I called you and left a message. If you read this get back to me when you can.
I've read that by passive bi-amping sda's you can substantially gain and intensify the imaging. Just can't remember where I read it.

Joe

michaeljhsda2

maandjojo wrote: »

First off you must always remove those jumpers or your speakers will be history. In one of the manuals it talks about bi-amping, so I'm sure you can do it. It should be passive bi-amping because of sda you need th passive crossover in the speakers. Thanks John no bridging then. By the way John I called you and left a message. If you read this get back to me when you can.
I've read that by passive bi-amping sda's you can substantially gain and intensify the imaging. Just can't remember where I read it.

Joe

You can bridge em' with the AI-1 or dreadnaught and if they don't sound good to you wouldn't have any problem selling the AI-1.

michaeljhsda2

Of course if you decide to do a bridge mono with an AI-1...the jumpers stay on.

george daniel

I have bi-amped them horizontially with two adcom 555's,, just remove the jumpers,,one amp for the lows,,one amp for the mid/highs,,, I did not like it,,sold the 555's and bought a Belles.

motorstereo

I didn't like the sound of bridged adcom 555's on pretty much anything either; polk or otherwise. Get yourself a single high powered qsc or crown pro amp if you're looking for bang for the buck watts and be done with it.

BB3

maandjojo wrote: »

On a pair of Sda Srs 2.3tl's using two Adcom 555II, would it be better to bi-amp or bridge mono. I know what each does but which gives you better all around sound? I have always done the basic hookup but looking to upgrade to something better. All comments welcome.
I did a double post, I hope thats not a problem with the forum police.

Thanx,
Joe

Bi-Amp them all the way Joe and Happy Listening.

---

Bill(BB3)

civilian

Though Joe (the OP) asked for opinion's (which are fine) I think some facts might be getting confused. Bridging and bi-amping are 2 different things, though they can done together.
Bridging an amp is combining 2 channels to power a single speaker (or in this case a single connection to a speaker).
Bi-amping is using 2 amplifiers to power a speaker with 2 connections (usually higher and lower frequencies).
Neither one is terribly complicated and doing both at the same time is relatively easy (Bridging 4 2 channel amplifiers and hooking them up to a pair of speakers that are bi-amp capable).
What makes it harder for our SDA's is that they need to be powered by a "common ground amp" or use the AI-1. When bi-amping only the lower frequency connection must be wired this way as well.

Now My opinion is that merely reconfiguring the same 4 channels of amplification between bridging or bi-amping may provide barely audible results one way or the other.

civilian

Now what I want to do is take a Monster MPA2250 (or similar) and use it to drive my SDA's (250 watts per channel). Then later get a second and bridge them with the AI-1 and hook 1 to each speaker (650 watts per channel). Then still later (when I win the lotto) buy 2 more and so I can bridge and bi-amp them (650 watts x2 per channel).;)

maandjojo

What a great place this is. You throw something out and wait for all to weigh in. Some good stuff here and some not so good. I actually know what each does, to to make it simple, you are taking more than one amp and adding more power to your system. Bridging you are just adding power, bi-amping you are distributing power in another way. I have learned that by bridging its not as simple as just adding power because the system doesn't see it that way so the effect is somewhat watered down. Bi-amping really sounds more interesting because you don't need all that much power for the highs and midrange. As long as the amps have the same gain you can use different wattages for the highs and lows.
Taking a quote from the Listen Carefully literature distributed by Polk when the Sda tl's came out " for even greater dynamic range and lower distortion, the SRS loudspeakers may be connected for Bi-Amplification using the two sets of inputs provided on each loudspeaker. No electronic crossover is necessary. By permitting different amplifiers to reproduce the high and low frequencies separately, the SRS loudspeakers achieve their greatest sonic potential."
I will do this and let you all know my thoughts.
When asking for opinions here its with the hope that those answering know what each does and have tried them. I really would hope that folks chiming in would not be confused and just report on what they know. That could cost someone their speakers.
That being said, as always, thank you to all.

Joe

TECHNOKID

maandjojo, as you point out the benefit of bridging is more power out but not necessary cleaner/quality power. The benefit of bi-amping is cleaner/improved quality of power since you actually isolate the power going through your HIGH and MID drivers thus the reason for electronic crossover not being so critical. However, your amps must be balanced (I more likely mean in phase O/P, of the same sonic O/P) NOT solely of the same O/P gain since missmatched amps could create even the slightess out of phase signal that would create unwanted cacophonie. Thus the reason I usually prefer biamping from different channels from the same amp ratter than various different amps.

IE: Using the left channels in A+B and right channels in A+B from 1 amp for the front and then repeat the same process with a different amp for rears if need be but if using your AVR for the rear you might not need to do so if the AVR also has A+B function especially when considering that the unused power from the AVR (since front has it's own amp). Bridging is then useless since by bi-amping you already gain/improve power anyway.

Bi-amping is to my knowledge the best option and thus bridging not necessary. As I pointed out, my main concern is to make sure my power going to the HIGH and MID drivers is of quality and in perfect phase.

Cheers!
TK

motorstereo

Taking a quote from the Listen Carefully literature distributed by Polk when the Sda tl's came out " for even greater dynamic range and lower distortion, the SRS loudspeakers may be connected for Bi-Amplification using the two sets of inputs provided on each loudspeaker. No electronic crossover is necessary. By permitting different amplifiers to reproduce the high and low frequencies separately, the SRS loudspeakers achieve their greatest sonic potential."
I will do this and let you all know my thoughts.
When asking for opinions here its with the hope that those answering know what each does and have tried them. I really would hope that folks chiming in would not be confused and just report on what they know. That could cost someone their speakers.
That being said, as always, thank you to all.

Joe[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I do with my 2.3s with great results. I use a 350 watt carver pro amp for the highs and a high df 500 watt qsc pro amp for the bottoms. Running these 2 amps brought my 2.3s to a level that I was unable to achieve before by using a single amp. Good luck in your quest.

george daniel

I'll chime in,,I've tried bridged with a pair of adcom 555's on 11T's,,, outright sucked---done


Bi-amp'd SDA 2.3tl's with adcom 555's---ok if thats all you got---not really that great as compared to,,,

High current amplifiers such as a Belles 350a---better than the above by a longshot


Currently Using a Big A$$ pair of monobloc's with an AI-1 made Dreadnaught--- the sound is outstanding.

If they were my speakers,I would go with a high current-high quality stereo amp,,or the dreadnaught with high current high quality monos,,,and if you really want some sweetness,, try some tubes. Good luck,hope this does not muddy the waters,,all the above is based on first hand experience. I dicked around for years until I bought some quality gear, now the system(s) sounds like the ones that you read about.Sure,adcom,carver,rotel,and others are good,, but,,,as Ted would say,,,"a great way to get outta' the kiddie pool",,as always ymmv,,,and yes,, it does get Deeper in the big pool. Good luck.

maandjojo

Ok folks now its my turn to weigh in. Its a done deal. Using Adcom amps the 555II and the 545II I have bi-amped my 2.3's. Using the 100 watts for the highs and the 200 watts for the lows. These two amps have the same gain and in my opinion are matched very well for the purpose of bi-amping. Again not needing all the power for the highs and I like it a lot. Basically it makes great speakers better.
I'd love to do what you were able to do George and respect your words greatly, just can't afford those named amps right now. Maybe in a couple of years, actually working on a pair of 1.2TL's right now. If that gets done, the next upgrade will be an audiophile type amp. Right now, bi-amping has done what I had expected.
So if anyone has been listening here, do it if you can, you will be rewarded.
Make sure you remove the jumpers first, then proceed.

Joe

george daniel

Joe,, congrats on the project,, I'm assuming that everyone knows to remove the jumpers when bi-amping,, but a good piece of advice/common sense for those who don't.Now,, enjoy your current setup,,I will go on record,,now that you have a taste,,you will move on from those adcoms in search of the "grail"Question is,,, how long Carefull,,it's a long deep hole,, but a glorious ride--enjoy.:)

BTW--when you do decide,,I'm sure that you'll find plenty of advice here.

maandjojo

I'm sure George. Yes I believe I will take that ride, just don't tell the wife.

Joe

george daniel

he,he,, just don't leave "new" amps in the trunk,, take the wife to the grocery store,,, forget that you have them,,and surprise,surprise, when you open it to put the groceries in,,,true story.:o

maandjojo

The look on the face-priceless.