Hyper Compression

rs159

Anybody else notice that most modern pop is hypercompressed until your ears scream mercy? Just for **** and gigles I downloaded a few songs I heard on the radio and turned on the spectrum analizer in Winamp.

Notice the songs in the playlist.

Even in the loudest part there is still headroom to spare.

rs159

Ok, a little louder but still dynamic.

rs159

Absolute digital limit. EEEEEK!

phuz

Mp3s downloaded from the net can't really be a reliable source to make this conclusion.

Since anyone can rip and mp3, and the end result will be very dependant on their settings when ripped, their sound card, and many other factors.

HOWEVER, I have noticed that some of the more recent CD's that I've bought are higher in volume (and usually quality) than most older stuff.

May I ask why you have the gain down and the volume all the way up?

rs159

Notice the "on" setting which isn't on. As for the eq, when you turn a band up I think it's good to turn the "preamp" slider down equally or else you get clipping in some songs.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

You wait, next 5 years the CDS will max out, everything will be recorded as loud as it can and will sound better.

rs159

Uhh, MX - it's like that allready. Just turn on the radio or pick up the latest cd from the Snoop D O double Jizzle or whatever. Tell me when you find a part of the song with more than 4db of dynamic range. But hey, DVD-A and SACD has even more dynamic range so maybe artists will start using that because it's so much louder than the old CDs :rolleyes:

rs159

BTW, the eq shown in the pics is something I created myself. I called it "Da Phat Beats" and I use it for rap to give it a little more punch. I just was too lazy to load up the defaul setting.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

No, cds now are boomed, they are gained to the sky and sound exploded. I cant stand to listen to eminem because of the distortion.

phuz

Originally posted by MxStYlEpOlKmAn
No, cds now are boomed, they are gained to the sky and sound exploded. I cant stand to listen to eminem because of the distortion.

Thats odd. I can crank Eminem on both my home and truck systems, without any distortion.

avelanchefan

Well if anyone has XM or Sirius Satellite you can REALLY notice a huge difference in older recordings to newer ones.

Like a lot of times I listen to the "80's" rock station(ok so sue me I still love it). Some recordings just make my head ache. Bass is a minimum, and the treble/mids are very bright.

Then you switch it over to the top 40, newer rock, or rap and all of a sudden my speakers are singing again. I think this is a case of to much clarity from my satellite!:D I think anything pre 1993 can be on the very bright side of recordings.

But if I listen to regular FM/AM stations I cannot differentaite(sp?) between any recordings.

rs159

Avalanchefan - B/C FM stations are completely free to anybody with a boombox with 3" speakers. XM radio caters to more audiophile types who like the less distortion and clear reception. Thusly, they each cater to each group. FM processes the hell out of allready processed to hell CDs to make them *AS* *LOUD* *AS* *F!CKING* *POSSIBLE* on even crappy equipment, but XM radio will leave the source signal virually untouched, so it's like listening to the real CD (kind of).

I too notice recordings before the early 90s or so can be bright sometimes. I'd guess that they were perfectly capable of making good pop recordings, but they figured pop was listened to by teens who had crappy equipment or listened to MTV thru the mono tv speaker. So to make it sound good on a 2 inch TV speaker they added tons of treble and took out the bass so the teeny little speakers wouldn't distort. Another case where EQ might be necesary. You might add a teeny bit of distortion to the whole works, but it doesn't matter too much when it sounds 100 times better with it. I know purists will say that the tinny effect was used by the artist for a reason and we shouldn't tamper with it - pfft...

rs159

Originally posted by MxStYlEpOlKmAn
No, cds now are boomed, they are gained to the sky and sound exploded. I cant stand to listen to eminem because of the distortion.

That's what I said!

Don't try to argue with somebody who agrees with you!

Steve@3dai

Phuz, your soundcard doesn't make a bit of difference when you are ripping

I've noticed that I can tell when something is recorded really well. Things are punchy, solid, but even at louder volumes it's still pleasant to listen to and not all buggin' me out and schtuff.

- S to the E-vo.

rs159

Originally posted by Steve@3dai
Phuz, your soundcard doesn't make a bit of difference when you are ripping - S to the E-vo.

I thought it was all digital but hey, why argue... Although I can see how you could majorly screw with the settings when ripping. My CD ripper has tons of compression/eq tools. Apperantly they put them there for people making CDs for the car who needed no more than 3db of dynamic range.

Steve@3dai

'Nuff said:

http://www.3dai.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=user_other;action=display;num=1044291266

rs159

Originally posted by rs159
BTW, the eq shown in the pics is something I created myself. I called it "Da Phat Beats" and I use it for rap to give it a little more punch. I just was too lazy to load up the defaul setting.

winamp.com - what fun...

Da Phat Beats version 2.0

rs159

(those last few sliders would be up further, but I don't want my headphones to catch fire)

rs159

It's not just for rap - some nice low frequency effects from, believe it or not, a Frankie Goes to Hollywood song cuaght me off gaurd :eek:

rs159

Originally posted by ATCVenom
As for eminem. The CD was recorded for LOUD - not quality. The tracks on there seem to vary - some seem clean - others seem full of popping and hissing. Much like the Evanescence cd.

Still, we have compressors that can make things REALLY LOUD without clipping like that. I can't listen to a lot of the newer Eminem for more than 10 minutes without fatigue.

Steve@3dai

Originally posted by ATCVenom
The sound-card does not play as much of a factor into ripping cd's as does the program which is doing it. Plain and simple.

The soundcard has NOTHING to do with the ripping. It's done over the IDE harddisk bus, not the soundcard.

Tour2ma

I am not sure I understand this discussion. In my knowledge reference frame compression, i.e., the dynamic range of a recording, has nothing to do with the relative loudness of a recording. That's the recording's level.

Most rock doesn’t have more than a few db’s of dynamic range, no matter what era it’s from. 10 is damn close to max for that genre’. Jazz goes to ~20. Now classical is where the range comes. 70 db is common, 80 is frequent and 90+ even shows up once in a while. Time was that in recording classical on vinyl, the studios had to “compress” the range of some pieces to stay above the noise level of vinyl on the bottom end and keep the stylus from jumping out of the track during the loudest passages.

If you are talking about sampling rate and the information "compression" that occurs in that process, that's different, in my mind.

And forgive me, but I did not think that clipping was possible in the digital domain... Is it? Again may be my frame of reference, but I think of clipping only as an analog amplification occurrence. Ditto the digital distortion comments, although it is possible to feed too strong an input to a Pre-amp and overload it.

Anyway, I welcome any education I may draw with this post.

And where is "winamp" available? Is it an MS download or other. Looks pretty nice compared to what I have...

Steve@3dai

www.winamp.com

Best mp3 player EVAR!

rs159

Originally posted by Tour2ma


And forgive me, but I did not think that clipping was possible in the digital domain... Is it? Again may be my frame of reference, but I think of clipping only as an analog amplification occurrence. Ditto the digital distortion comments, although it is possible to feed too strong an input to a Pre-amp and overload it.

Anyway, I welcome any education I may draw with this post.

And where is "winamp" available? Is it an MS download or other. Looks pretty nice compared to what I have...

Clipping is very probable in digital. If a signal hits the digital "brick wall" be it 96db for cds or higher for dvd and such - the waveform has nowhere to go, so it just doesnt go. You get a weird looking square wave that sounds even weirder. Sometimes you don't notice the nasty metalic cringy noise, but after a while your ears start to hurt. There are other clues such as a lack of air and the impression that everything is kindof timid (for lack of a better word) i.e. a lot of rock sounds fine - untill it gets loud and voices take about 10 steps back and you loose all sense of detail - you hear that alot on teen rock stations and such.

Winamp - click here

rs159

oops, put the winamp link there twice. sorry - didn't notice that

Steve@3dai

Yes, it's 96dB

6dB for every 1bit of resolution.