Ethics 101 Question: Carver M1.5t on ebay

Tour2ma
Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
edited September 2008 in The Clubhouse
A Seller just moved a Carver M1.5t on ebay for $700. His ad banner read: "Carver Power Amplifier M 1.5 1200 Watts "

My question is: Is advertising an M1.5t as a "1200 Watt" amp deceitful, or just great advertising?

The amp was mint, or at least appeared to be. But trully they are 350 wpc continuous, or 700 watt amps with avaiable short term power of 600 wpc or 1200 total. All ratings are into 8-ohms. (Additionally the channels can borrow up to another 150 watts from each other for up to 750 non-simultaneous watts, the other is "limited" to 450 at that moment, but set that aside for now.)

Let me add this data as I have been watching M1.5t's for three months and have saved most end of auction details.
- the highest any M1.5 has gone for prior to this was $479.99.
- the normal range for M1.5's is $350 to $440, depending on condition
- many have seen DJ use and are dinged up to some degree
- the $479 and many of the $440's have appeared to be near mint.

To be fair, the seller did lay out all of the amp's power and other facts in his rather long text, pretty much verbatim straight out the manual, but clearly, IMO, the 1200 watts in the banner produced this big sales price.

Just curious about opinions here as I've argued both ways in my head. Because for $700 I might be tempted to sell my mint, original owner, "1200 watt" M1.5t. Hell, I only paid a little over $800 for it.

The ad's complete text follows:
This auction is for a amplifier I have owned since new,not only is it in perfect working order, It is absolutely mint cosmetically. I have the original box with the original packing material, and the original owners manual as well. I have moved to a smaller residence and this amplifier is overkill for my current application. If you want or need a lot of power for a large room or area this amp will definitely fit the bill. Most individuals will never need the maximum output this component will deliver. I have been perfectly satisfied with the performance and reliablity while I have owned it and have never had any kind of alfunction. Power output: 350 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms, both channels driven, with no more than 0.5 percent total harmonic distortion, 20 to 20,000 Hz. 600 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms for musically significant time periods. 750 watts per channel of Dynamic Headroom Noise: 100 dB, IHF "A" weighting IM distortion: Less than 0.5% Input impedance: 100 K ohms Load impedance: Recommended for driving impedances from 2 to 32 ohms Power consumption: 35 watts idle, 1500 watts full power Display ballistics: 1 millisecond attack, 1 second release Dimensions: 3 1/2 " High, 19" Wide, 10 1/2 " deep Weight: 16 lbs. From the owners manual: The Carver M-1.5t is something
new in the way of stereo and power amplifiers, designed around a philosophy that has been many years in the emergence, and intended to be the ultimate amplifier for the reproduction of music and music-like signals, today and for some years to come. It is recommended without reservation for home listening of all forms and for any application in which the statistical duty cycles of speech and music, handled at extremely high levels with extremely low distortion, are the principal content of the information to be presented. Although its power-output capabilities are unapproached by any other commercially available audio amplifier, the Carver M-1.5 is virtually indestructible under conditions of normal use and abuse. We at Carver Corporation hope you will take the time to study this manual in detail, in order to understand both the the benefits and the liabilites of extremely high amplifier power, and to appreciate how the Carver M-1.5.
More later,
Tour...
Vox Copuli
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

"Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
"It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
"There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
Post edited by Tour2ma on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited March 2003
    I think it is up to you to decide what it is. Kind of like the old Pyamid car eq-boosters rated at 600 watts per channel for $39.99. Lets see, you take the rms value and multiply by 1.414 to get the peak, then you double that to get peak to peak, then you multiply by the input current with 1 ohm speakers... Yea, that is 600 watts for sure but only maybe 10 watts rms at 25% distortion! And, it will handle one peak like that before it fizzles out assuming you could supply the current!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2003
    Well now it's raining 1200 watt Carvers on ebay. Another 1.5 and an m400.... HTH the guy can call that a 1200 watt amp escapes me...

    Here they are...

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3014137419&category=14973

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3013779111&category=14973
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited March 2003
    I don't mind it so much when they have no clue what they're talking about or include the actual specs in the description. When they know the truth and don't include it in an obvious manner, they are dishonest and I have often let sellers know this using the "Ask Seller Question" option.
    Make it Funky! :)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Tokico
    Tokico Posts: 1
    edited September 2008
    I personally have a M1.5T with a C-1 and also a TFM-45. They perform flawlessly and for the price of these units they are hard to beat. I don't believe that they are over rated but I sure would like to have a Krell to compare... Pete.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited September 2008
    5 & 1/2 years may be a new record for resurecting a thread....:confused:
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited September 2008
    Tokico / Pete.

    Welcome to Polk Audio Forums :)

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BIZILL
    BIZILL Posts: 5,432
    edited September 2008
    i was gonna say, i ain't heard from tour2ma in ages.:rolleyes:

    POLK SDA-SRS 1.2TL -- ADCOM GFA-5802
    PANASONIC PT-AE4000U -- DIY WILSONART DW 135" 2.35:1 SCREEN
     ONKYO TX-SR805
    CENTER: CSI5
    MAINS: RTI8'S
    SURROUNDS: RTI8'S
    7.1 SURROUNDS: RTI6'S
    SUB: SVS PB12-PLUS/2 (12.3 series)
    XBOX 360    WiiPS3/blu-rayTOSHIBA HD-A35 hd dvd

    http://polkarmy.com/forums/index.php
    bobman1235 wrote:
    I have no facts to back that up, but I never let facts get in the way of my arguments.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited September 2008
    I think Tour has been spending his days sipping Shirley Temples' on a small island just off of Panama. The place is apparently filled with bronzen women whose **** lift slightly upward.

    They call him papa boo doo, roughly translated into "unshaven man with hard stones".

    God Bless you Bruce.

    RT1
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • douglast
    douglast Posts: 1
    I am an ISCET certified Electronics technician with over 30 years in electronics.
    I was Carver factory service for over six years, and I was an instructor of electronics at a local community college for over years, I hold two degrees in technology.
    The Carver m1.5t is arguably one of the finest solid state amplifiers ever produced.
    Quibbleing, over Wether or not to buy one should only be a matter of your own musical needs or limited knowledge about the device. Getting one in pristine condition with all packaging and nomenclature for under a thousand dollars, should be done with a genuine thank you to the seller.
    The specifications are not a lie nor is posting them an act of dishonesty. Those who post it as such are simply dullards, judgemental and jaded.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,774
    Holy necropost Batman!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Hermitism
    Hermitism Posts: 4,272
    That post was from March 2003.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
    edited February 2019
    ...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,583
    Been a whole lot of that necroposting lately.....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,917
    Dead thread walking...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,448
    douglast wrote: »
    I am an ISCET certified Electronics technician with over 30 years in electronics.
    I was Carver factory service for over six years, and I was an instructor of electronics at a local community college for over years, I hold two degrees in technology.
    The Carver m1.5t is arguably one of the finest solid state amplifiers ever produced.
    Quibbleing, over Wether or not to buy one should only be a matter of your own musical needs or limited knowledge about the device. Getting one in pristine condition with all packaging and nomenclature for under a thousand dollars, should be done with a genuine thank you to the seller.
    The specifications are not a lie nor is posting them an act of dishonesty. Those who post it as such are simply dullards, judgemental and jaded.

    All that experience and still clueless about which you speak. The 1.5 is a nice amp, but far from one of the best ever made. I can think of many made before that one and even more made after it that will blow it out of the water.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    The original thread was started 16 years ago...the last comment prior to douglast's insightful Curriculum Vitae was 10 1/2 years ago. I guess it is good to know what someone paid for a Carver Amp in 2003 was fair price...according to him.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,917
    I guess one begged question might be What are they goin' for now?
    I might just do a little search.

    looks like -- maybe about the same.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carver-M-1-5T-Made-In-USA-Magnetic-Field-Transfer-Function-Amplifier/123629627792?hash=item1cc8e66990:g:qZgAAOSwkCZcZxLE:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,430
    shack wrote: »
    5 & 1/2 years may be a new record for resurecting a thread....:confused:

    Little did you know that this very thread would easily eclipse that record. 10+ years between posts about 10" south of your 9/2008 record acknowledgment!

    Nice to see you posting some again, Shack.
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,917
    price cut:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/123629627792?ul_noapp=true

    It can be yours for $641.95 (that's 2019 US Greenbacka-dollas).

    :#

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,018
    shack wrote: »
    5 & 1/2 years may be a new record for resurecting a thread....:confused:

    10 1/2 years ....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    Wowza!
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,145
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Been a whole lot of that necroposting lately.....
    [shrug] Some people are into that kind of thing.
    I disabled signatures.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • DJShyfawx
    DJShyfawx Posts: 1
    I just picked up a carver M1.5t plus a Furman TX3 Crossover To Sonico 15 plus horns mains and Two MTX 15 sm subs for 400 bucks.... in Moses Lake WA.....shabam.....after getting some cable connectors and converters we will see if this baby works.....I'm just going to try one sub and one main as a bass stack (one per Channel.....and see what kind of power I can get out of that....after being pre amped through my black star unity 500 of course .....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,663
    If you're lucky it'll all blow up.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    F1nut wrote: »
    If you're lucky it'll all blow up.

    PRICELESS!

    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    F1nut wrote: »
    If you're lucky it'll all blow up.

    Now that’s funny,, I spewed my coffee!!
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter