whats the best sub?

Nathan32387

Can anyone tell me what is the best spl subwoofer for around $150 or less?

PoweredByDodge

dont quote me on this but I THINK you can get cerwin vega stroker 15's for 150-ish if you hunt around online. maybe less.

Nathan32387

well, i couldnt find a stroker 15 for 150 but im trying to decide between an audiobahn flame Q 10" or 2 alpine type S 12", which choice is better?

PoweredByDodge

neither is an SPL subwoofer -- both are low power SQ subs, however, based upon your two that you've chosen, I would take the audiobahn flame Q 10 - even tho i dont like audiobahn, the flame Q is a higher rms, higher quality, better sub that the type S alpine.

Nathan32387

Do you think that the visonik subs are any good, they're pretty inexpensive? and how do they compare to the audiobahn flame Q 10?

PoweredByDodge

visonik is kinda junky for subs -- some people will swear by their amps, and i won't chide them for that, the amps aren't bad, but the subs are kinda junky. ... kinda like mtx.... the amps are great for driving subwoofers, but mtx 8000's are a far cry from anything worth putting in the back of yoru car.

flame Q is better.

Jstas

If you are going to look at stuff like Visonik then I think your time and money would be better spent shifting you focus a little farther to the right and looking at the JBL subs. They don't have 15's but if you get a DVC 12, I believe that each coil can handle up to 400 watts RMS. I may be mistaken though. A paid of stereo D-class amps on a pair of 12 inch JBL Power 1220 DVC 2 Ohm voice coils.

A pair of those with a couple of 2 ohm stable stereo amps should push you clear out of your seat with 150 watts RMS on each coil. I've always been pleased with JBL as a cheap alternative and they have a serious BOOM potential in a ported box. Defintly an under-rated speaker. They are going for about $349 retail but if you are going for 150 dollar subs and planning on getting 2 of them, I think this 1 DVC sub would fit your budget and make just as much noise as the Visonik subs and do it cleaner too.

Just something to consider.

You could always check out the JBL GT series subs which are pretty capable units themselves. they will run you less than 100 bucks I believe. Actually, right now, Crutchfield has a special on the 12 inchg JBL GT subs. 2 for $150. They handle up to 250 watts RMS and 1,000 peak but I ran a 10 inch sub at 300 watts RMS and had no problems. These subs will also make some crazy noise in a ported box and they are a better sub than Visonik and that's for damn sure! Here is a link:

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-vjW3pmzeZKq/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=67700&I=109GT120&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N

Nathan32387

ok thanks for all your replies, so i think its down to 1 audiobahn flame Q 10, 2 JBL GT 12's or 1 15" cerwin vega-vega series 154's,do u guys have any opinions on the cerwin vega 15 and could u tell me out of those 3 choices which one will sound best?

PoweredByDodge

dude if u didn't give a damn how it sounded, you shoulda seen this ebay auction that just ended...

it was alpine type S 12's for 40 bucks + 10 shipping.


thats like 50 bucks a sub -- 200 rms but they're 600 peak... and thats not a bullcrap rating, its legitimate... so 4 of those would run you like 200 bucks.... and then get like two big ol JBL BP 1200.1 amps -- that's like 200 bucks per amp if u dig hard enough... you could probably hit 155+ if you did a really good vented cabinet and maybe more if you sealed the hell out of your car.... i would venture to say 160 and change if you really did a hell of an install and made that whole car air tight as a drum.

i was gonna get a set but the jerk ended the auction -- he had 38 of them in a dutch for 50 shipped... sposed to end in 6 days but then he just cut it off today... i emailed him "what the f**k happened?" -- no reply yet tho.

TrappedUnder Ice

who looks at peak ratings anyway? Unless your into spl competitions...peak means nothing...I'm surprised that came out of your mouth vinnie... Not sleeping at night?

peace

PoweredByDodge

lol... usually it doesn't -- but this guy seems like all he wants is spl -- he asked "whats the best spl sub i cna get for a buck fifty" initially... and it seems like all he's reallyworried abotuis boom boom boom.. in which case, the type S with 600w each will probably blow his doors off.

Nathan32387

is the cerwin vega- vega 154 better than the audiobahn 10" flame Q?

PoweredByDodge

most likely you'll like it better.

Systems

any one heard of PROKICK woofer???

i heard that my fren telling it can give blast the sound like hell...

advice me if iam wrong.

rdg,
looseman

Nathan32387

I ended up buying the audiobahn flame Q 10" because it was cheaper and i got it at crutchfield, do u know if it would do better in a sealed, ported or 6th order bandpass, also is it better than 2 polk gnx-104's?

latin270

What did I miss out on? How come no one chose Polk MM12?

PoweredByDodge

... lots o reasons we dont choose polk mm12....

the one for this case is price -- he wanted 150 retail for an SPL sub -- the momo is by no means going to bang enough to be an SPL sub ... and its well over the 150 mark.

its an SQ sub-- period.... a good one at that... but its not gonna get him into the lanes


i dont think the audiobahn with either, but oh well... not my car.

audiobahns will outdo the GNX's i think... i think a barratone gerble would outdo the GNX.

bandpass for the audiobahn -- ya i know BP sux, but audiobahn is kidna engineering their subs for bandpass these days.

call AB for specs and box building -- they'll hook you up...

RuSsMaN

Agreed Jstas.

JBL, I'd add some Infinity, some Polk.

Did you guys get a guage of what an 'SPL' sub would mean to him? 100db? 110? 120? 140? etc etc etc.

A couple posts in, he drops the spl question and asks 'which will sound best x, y, or z?'

My CS knowledge is limited, but what car/truck do you have, and what are your other components? Usually the best match, will be a nice blend with the rest of your rig, not overkill (or under).

The devil is in the details.....give us some (details).

Cheers,
Rooster

Jstas

In cars there are only 2 kinds of SPL subs. Loud and not-loud. It all depends on how much power you have behind you. Unless you have a van, ANY sub is going to overpower the passenger compartment if set to insane levels. So really, its just a question of quality of the speaker, price and SPL or SQ.

RuSsMaN

Originally posted by Jstas
In cars there are only 2 kinds of SPL subs. Loud and not-loud. It all depends on how much power you have behind you.

Why do you say that? I'm not contradicting, just trying to understand. Any amp on the market that I have seen has an 'infinately' variable gain control, so you could (and I would think would) fine-tune it with the rest of the system.

What specs/build of a sub designate it SQ or SPL, or both? I build DIY speakers/subs for home use on occasion, of which there is a TON of grey area between SPL and SQ (some overlap). From what I have seen on 'car' subs, they seem to be one or the other, but based on what reference point? What makes a sub SQ or SPL strong? Are there key points to look for, so far, all I can see is power handling, or word of mouth. Focal can handle a TON of power, but I would rate them at the top of the SQ category.

Maybe I'm too much HS oriented, but dammit, I want some quality AND on occasion some BOOM too.

From my limited experience, I do realize auto rigs are a whole-hell-of-a-lot different than home, esp in the bass dept. I can't believe the change I hear with my windows up, vs down (even sitting still) in my truck (reg cab S-10, ie SMALL).

Windows up, I sometimes feel like I'm sitting inside the front chamber of a bandpass box, very one-notish (my single EX10 is sealed).

Windows down, the sub seems more efficient, but less 'controlled', a little more sloppy if you will.

Interesting stuff.

Cheers,
Rooster

Jstas

Hey Russ, don't get you panties in a bunch. My description was accurate because, in the Sound Pressure Level (aka: volume) category, there isn't much else to describe the different subs. Sound Quality is a different story and relates more to the home theater side. You cannot compare the two though because, like I said, a car is a completely different environment. Any sub can over-power the listening area and the listing area is acoustically hostile. However, there is alot of difference between an SPL and an SQ sub.

Most SQ subs will not have a very wide frequency range because they usually have heavy cones and surrounds for less overall distortion. My Polk dB10, one of the very best SQ sub ever made, has a cone, dust cap and surround so strong, you could stand on it. However, its frequency response drops off at about 600 hz. It will take about 600 watts of power, 350 of that being RMS power. Its actually under rated. It is very tight and clean and damn near distortion free.

As a comparison, my JBL GT10 sub has a frequency response of about 2500 Hz. It has a very light, laminated paper pulp cone with a thin ABS plastic dust cap. It handles less power because the cone is so light and not as stiff as the dB. Its a cleaner sub than most in its category and severely under-rated. It is best in a ported box and it will play extremely loud with its dB sensitivity at 92 versus the Polk dB10's 88. That means that the JBL will play louder than the Polk at the same power level. Well, there is much more to it that that but thats kind of the idea. I don't want to explain it now though and I trust that you understand that concept. However, the JBL is no where near as tight as the Polk because of its cone construction. While it can move alot of air, it doesn't do it so quickly as the Polk because its cone is not as stable as the Polk. Consequently, its sensitivity and frequency range are high but its power handling and overall accuracy are low. That makes it a much better SPL sub than an SQ sub.

Why? Well, the SQ sub doesn't move as much but it can handle much more movement and has a quicker response becauise it stands up to the abuse of the extreme sounds it plays. That also makes it accurate because the cone is not deflecting and distorting when hitting a 20 Hz bass note on a jazz recording. Due to the stiffness of the cone, it can handle alot more power. This makes up for its weak sensitivity rating. It will and can play just as loud as the JBL but requires more power to do it. The JBL sub will play very loud at the same power levels as the Polk but is much more likely to distort because it is a physically weak sub.

Now, this doesn't mean that the SQ sub can't do what an SPL sub can or that an SPL sub cannot be constructed to adequatly perform to a reasonble level of sound quality. That kind of thing depends on the enclosure. Since the SPL sub has a weaker cone, they are usually recommended with a ported box. This is because the port box has less air resistance. Air resistance behind a weak cone cause it to distor because it isn't tsrong enough to handle the pressure variances in a sealed box. It can be mounted in a sealed box but cannot be fully powered to its limits because of that. The SQ sub actually thrives on the sealed box pressure differences. It uses it to support its extreme range of operation. It acts like a spring board to help emphasize response.

While both subs can be mounted in either enclosure, mounting an SQ sub in a ported enclosure is a sure fire way to kill it. It will basically play itself to shreds. It uses those same pressure variances in the sealed box to control cone excursion too. Without it, the surround stretches and the spider weakens and even cracks. That's the end of that. No fun.

The enclosure makes the difference too. It can be used to limit frequency response above and below a certain point or in a range of frequencies, hence the bandpass sub box. However, the major limiting factor is power. The more power, the more noise you are going to make. My dB10 with 300 watts RMS/600 watts peak behind it can be heard down the block. A single 10 inch sub has fooled people into believing it was bigger or there were more subs. The JBL I have can be heard a long way away also but only needs about 200 watts RMS to be heard down the street. I can put it at the same level as the Polk, 300 watts RMS and it will out boom the Polk. It will play loud enough to cause pain. But 300 watts is its limit. It could probably be pushed to 400 watts but, then we run into other physical limitations like cooling problems and such.

So there are differences but they aren't in the sound, you have to read the numbers and a basic understanding of speaker cabinet design, construction and tuning is good thing too.

That was alot. I think I addressed most of your questions. Did I?

PoweredByDodge

Russman,

i agree w/ Jstas on this but as far as my own take on SPL vs SQ (just definition of the term)... to me its always been.

SQ --> good sounding speakers aimed at sound quality and "blending" with your existing system... enjoyment of music. (ie something like a polk DB / polk momo / idq / oz matrix / etc etc etc)

SQL --> almost as good sound quality as an SQ speaker if not equal, and insane amounts of power handling (ie -- something like a soundstream davinci, Idmax, JL W7, etc etc)

SPL --> absolute disregard for the quality of sound and no goal for the speaker other than to be as physically loud and create as much pressure in the vehicle as possible. (ie. CV strokers / mtx RFL / DD9515 (even tho people will use the DD for daily drivers its main purpose was still SPL).)

when a dude says "i want a bangin SPL sub" --- he's gonna illicit a response from me along the lines of what i defined above.

if he said "really f-in loud SQ subwoofer" then that woudl fall more into what you had been talking about -- somethin that bangs but also sounds really good.

i think when it comes down to it -- almost all of us in here want an SQ or an SQL sub... or else we wouldn't be polk customers to begin with. -- we (in general) like good sounding audio... the emphasis on GOOD SOUNDING.

but like i said -- some people just wanna bump as loud as possible, and while that's not my choice in life, i respect that and will do what i can to point them inthe right direction for loudness.

goingganzo

i would recomed a stryke av12 or 15 they are sweet subs i have 1 of the 15 in my ht and ordered a third to replave my 12 in the car.