Tweeter/mid placement: beaten to death

Thunderplains

ok..

I have been going over this again and again.. I dont mind doing some FG fabrication, so not an issue.. I am looking at this 2 ways and here are my thoughts..

My mids will be going in the door, stock location BUT I am thinking I might build a custom adapter that puts them as low and far forward as possible with possible aiming at the passenger seat and vis versa. Also as far as height, while sitting in the drivers seat, the mids hit about mid to lower leg above ankle.

Second. Tweeter position & aiming.. I have heard and read so many converstions about this, my head is spinning. First, the tweets should be pointed at the headrests, driver to pass, etc, second, stage height. I am thinking since my mids are not on the floor, I might put the tweets at about 1/2 way or eye level on A pillar with some custom FG work.

So Any input here would be greatly appreciated.. I would like to get the mids on the floor, but my parking brake on drivers side prevents that.

Systems

Use double sticky tape to move your tweets around until you find where they sound best. Fab some temp cups for them or use the ones that are supplied with the comp set. I'm about to do an install and I'm about to try and use some PVC cut at different angles for my tweet mounting. This will also be useful in finding the ideal location and angle for the tweets. I hope!!!!

MacLeod

Every car and every speaker is different so there is no one right place to mount them. Ive seen locations in all kinds of spots. Generally the A pillars work best, about an inch above the highest point of the dash. Im trying mine in the dash right now firing up into the windshield. I really want to make this spot work as it gives me the best combination of depth, width and height. Im having trouble working around all the reflections tho. The A pillars worked pretty well but the SR6500 tweeters are so directional that having one 90 degrees off axis doesnt work very well. If youre a good fabricator which Im not, you can fashion a mount that angles the tweeters back at you.

tk421

the mids are mostly ok. but i found that angling them helps a lot. more direct energy and less loss of detail. even a 10degree angle helps a lot! (learned that last week)

best location (for me.. honda civic hatch) was the kick panel. but impossible to get the midbass efficiently. u might be a better installer than I am and be able to build a kick that vents into the carpet, simulating an aperiodic membrane. i read it in theory but cant' replicate.

tweets. 90degrees off axis works but detail is lost. attenuated -6db cause they're so close. also wired out of phase. angling these are more important and i'm working on it next. mines are in the a pillars, 6 inches from the dash. wanted to clear obstacles (such as instrument panel hump and steerin wheel)/

there is no one place anyone can say. it all depends on the car and the audience. single seat setup is differnt from dual seat setup. takes a lot of time listening to get either right.

as mac said.. it's all about stage witdh and depth. but i sacrificed some of this for tonal accuracy. (in IASCA, tonal accuracy counts for the majority of points). when u listen, u'r ears should not get tired. the SRs can deliver this quality.

arun1963

the mids are mostly ok. but i found that angling them helps a lot. more direct energy and less loss of detail. even a 10degree angle helps a lot! (learned that last week)

yes, toeing in the mids brings the near side one more on axis.

but i sacrificed some of this for tonal accuracy.

True. With my lousy stock locations, mids high on the door panels, 6" below the window and tweets in the sail panel, I can either have decent tonality but then the stage height is lower and I loose depth, or I can have good stage height, a fairly stable image and lose a bit on tonality. To raise the height I have to cut back a bit on 80-315 and this impacts the tonality. It's better now that I have my TA right (tks to mac) but yeah the issue is still there.

Thunderplains

So My thought is this..

My door panels accept a 6x9 (factory), I have removed that and got a MDF adapter from tacotunes. So rather than having the speaker fire at each other door to door (factory), I have place the adapters in the door a using a laser pointer mounted in a piece of cardboard (6.75 round) I started seeing how much MDF I could shave down down and at what angle to have them point slightly up and more "in" towards front seats work. I can only go so far until I compromise the spk adpt..

The tweeter.. Ok, the clear the stering wheel and such, about 5 inches up on the pillar. BUT is the smart install to have the tweets X-cross and have drivers face the pass and the pass face the drivers? or have the drivers face the driver, etc.. I am also imaging that based on MECA mike placement, tweets should be pointing around the 27" mark on the seats.. Just my .02..

Guys, I come from SPL a long time ago, so I am learning all the SQ stuff.. It's nice to go from my ears bleeding to actually hearing what a good, solid install should sound like.

I think I should own about 10% of Dynamat by now.. egads..

arun1963

Let the tweeters cross fire, i.e. drivers side towards the passenger and vice versa.

If you imagine a laser from the centre of each tweet, the two beams should intersect in front of you at about eye level, but towards the middle of the car.

I bet you can't wait to get down to tuning and hearing it..lol

Thunderplains

Right now, planning and fabricating.. And pictures of course..
I am in Dynamat hell as we speak..

tk421

Thunderplains wrote: »

how much MDF I could shave down

try to build up ... with another ring. i always make my own. a 6" ring for the speaker would work. u tilt that accordingly. watch out for clearence before u commit.

Thunderplains wrote: »

I think I should own about 10% of Dynamat by now.. egads..

lol, me too. but with secondskin.

Thunderplains

So I finally got to do some work (having a newborn takes up some time.. Anyways, I am planning on the tweets being about 5.8 inches up on the A pillars, this will clear the wheel, dash, etc and gives me a nice clear shot.

Second.. The mids (in the factory door space), I am woking on the mounts to have them "aimed" rather than X fire..

So here are 2 questions I have.

As far as the tweets go, WHERE is the BEST place for them to be pointed? I am only going to do the A pillar fab once..

Second, looks like the mids will have enough play to be aiming at the passenger seat base, but I am trying to get as much angle as possible with the factory space..
Any concern with leaving them in X fire?

It's not going to be a lights and action car, but as much as a stealth install as
i can do.

I sm also ripping out the factory amp located under the pass seat and installing the Audison Bit one in the spot.

Still Dynamatting..

MacLeod

IT depends on which tweeters youre using. If youre using a good soft dome then you dont necessarily have to mount them on axis. If youre using the SR tweets then you pretty much HAVE to have them as on axis to you as possible.

With the mids, if youre able to aim them towards the passenger seat that should be plenty. Make sure tho when youre aiming them that half the speaker isnt firing into the door trim panel.

Thunderplains

SO with the SRs, do i want them hitting center between the seats or more towards the drivers ear position? I am thinking a x-cross pattern.. Pass to drv and etc.. pointing at the magic 27 inch mark.. but then again, centering them between the 2 seats could have merritt as well..

thoughts?

ahardy17

MacLeod wrote: »

Every car and every speaker is different so there is no one right place to mount them. Ive seen locations in all kinds of spots. Generally the A pillars work best, about an inch above the highest point of the dash. Im trying mine in the dash right now firing up into the windshield. I really want to make this spot work as it gives me the best combination of depth, width and height. Im having trouble working around all the reflections tho. The A pillars worked pretty well but the SR6500 tweeters are so directional that having one 90 degrees off axis doesnt work very well. If youre a good fabricator which Im not, you can fashion a mount that angles the tweeters back at you.

I hope you're placing those tweeters as close to the windshield as possible so the imaging doesn't get too distorted! My friend's Honda Accord has tweeters right in the very corners of the windshield where I'm pretty sure you might have to remove the windshield to replace them. But that is best for the imaging. I read a good general rule of thumb regarding dash tweeter placement: if you can see the actual tweeter and it's reflection in the glass and they're more than 6 inches apart your imaging will suffer. Good luck!

MacLeod

Thats what Dashmats are for.

Thunderplains

Alright.. By the rate I am moving looks like next year will be my first intro into the comps.. Sloooooooow.. But intentional, dont want to redo anything..

Ok, I have screwed with the tweet placement until I was blind and babbling..
Looks like My optimal place will be about 5 inches above dash AND with the
driver side and passenger side tweets pointing to a spot in the middle of
the headrests at ear height..

Opinions? (this was a pain in the A$$ to get them aimed perfectly. I hate being a engineer.. think to much)