Ideas for DIY Line Array With Active Crossover!
megasat16
Posts: 3,521
Don't know where to start but it's been in my mind for so long to build Open Baffle Type Line Array. I've already bought a few tweeters but it seems I need to buy more.
Here is what I already bought
2 pairs of Aurum Cantus G3si (6 ohms, 99db)
1 Pair of LCY 110 (8ohms, 92db)
I will only be using either G3si or LCY110 in the line array.
Both type of ribbons drives have fairly Frequency Response from 2KHz and above. I am thinking to use 8 to 16 in each line array. I am only testing at this stage and there is no solid design ideas yet. How many more tweeters should I get?
I am not sure what to get for the midrange but I've decided to go with Dual or Quad 15" Direct Servo Subs from Rythmik Audio.
I need suggestion for the suitable drivers for midrange array and the number of tweeters I should use. But most importantly, I need advise on Active XO for the tweeter and midrange arrays.
Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences!
Here is what I already bought
2 pairs of Aurum Cantus G3si (6 ohms, 99db)
1 Pair of LCY 110 (8ohms, 92db)
I will only be using either G3si or LCY110 in the line array.
Both type of ribbons drives have fairly Frequency Response from 2KHz and above. I am thinking to use 8 to 16 in each line array. I am only testing at this stage and there is no solid design ideas yet. How many more tweeters should I get?
I am not sure what to get for the midrange but I've decided to go with Dual or Quad 15" Direct Servo Subs from Rythmik Audio.
I need suggestion for the suitable drivers for midrange array and the number of tweeters I should use. But most importantly, I need advise on Active XO for the tweeter and midrange arrays.
Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences!
Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
Post edited by megasat16 on
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Cool project.I haven't done a line array or OB ,but Ive built a number of active xovers so I might be able to assist you with that part.Testing
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Thanks GV! I've been doing a lot of readings on DIYA and AVS for line array and OB type speakers. What active XO did you use?Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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I recently built this one.However I see the board is no longer available from Linkwitz. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79522&highlight=linkwitz+mt1+active+crossoverWhat active XO did you use?
I bought one of these http://bryston.com/BrystonSite05/pdfs/PowerPacAmplifiers/driven.pdf
Aswell I built one with boards purchased from a group buy on DIYA.It also is no longer available but I will dig up the design manual for you as it's full of excellent info.
Another good source is Marchand,they have a number of PCB kits.http://www.marchandelec.com/Testing
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I missed this part on first read.Are you sure you want tight and detailed bass?I've decided to go with Dual or Quad 15" Direct Servo Subs from Rythmik Audio.
Because thats exactly what you will get with the Rythmic servo's! Great choice IMO.;) Testing
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I missed this part on first read.Are you sure you want tight and detailed bass? Because thats exactly what you will get with the Rythmic servo's! Great choice IMO.;)
Yes Sir! Tight and Deep is what I am after. It's got to be a long tower if I decided to use Quad. Can you picture the bass column from IRS Beta V? 
OMG, I'll be so broke after I am done buying all the drivers. :eek::eek:Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
I recently built this one.However I see the board is no longer available from Linkwitz. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79522&highlight=linkwitz+mt1+active+crossover
I bought one of these http://bryston.com/BrystonSite05/pdfs/PowerPacAmplifiers/driven.pdf
Aswell I built one with boards purchased from a group buy on DIYA.It also is no longer available but I will dig up the design manual for you as it's full of excellent info.
Another good source is Marchand,they have a number of PCB kits.http://www.marchandelec.com/
Yeah! I thought about Marchand. The price of their fully assembled kits is high so I am thinking more of DEQX instead. I know KK-PCB offers active XO pcbs. Is that something you familiar with before?
http://www.kk-pcb.com/3-way.htmlTrying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Oh ya,and when you move into a bigger house you can add another Quad column to match.:DCan you picture the bass column from IRS Beta V?
No s**t.OMG, I'll be so broke after I am done buying all the drivers. :eek::eek:
But atleast you have enough amplification laying around so as to not need to buy any.
Thats a very nice and sophisticated piece of audio engineering.Expensive but worth it.I am thinking more of DEQX instead.
No I'm not familiar with it, but I took a quick look.I much prefer even order slopes (mostly LR4) but that board uses 18 db and I notice that one of the opamp pin spacings on the PCB is for a 14pin quad.There are not many hi performance opamps available in the quad package and the recommended TL074 is not IMO a good IC for hi rez audio.I know KK-PCB offers active XO pcbs. Is that something you familiar with before?
http://www.kk-pcb.com/3-way.htmlTesting
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Oh ya,and when you move into a bigger house you can add another Quad column to match.:D
I don't know. I might have to sell 2 of my beloved SVS PB13 Ultra to make room. I can't afford a bigger house now.No s**t.
But atleast you have enough amplification laying around so as to not need to buy any.
It's true. May be this super efficient tower will change my mind and I'll sell all my amps and settles on a few 7w SET amps. ::eek:Thats a very nice and sophisticated piece of audio engineering.Expensive but worth it.
Yep! I think it's worth the price too when it is effectively 3 way active XO for both channels and has room correction. I saw the older 2.6 version for around 2K on Agon.No I'm not familiar with it, but I took a quick look.I much prefer even order slopes (mostly LR4) but that board uses 18 db and I notice that one of the opamp pin spacings on the PCB is for a 14pin quad.There are not many hi performance opamps available in the quad package and the recommended TL074 is not IMO a good IC for hi rez audio.
Ok! Thanks for this one. I am in the new water when it comes to the high quality op-amps.
Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Very cool project!"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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That would be permissable if it were a few of these. http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/zenamp.pdf and not one with those glowing bottle thingies like this http://www.usatubeaudio.com/omaha-300b.phpI'll sell all my amps and settles on a few 7w SET amps. ::eek:Testing
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Very cool project!
Thanks Mike! I am still splitting hairs whether to get Accuton Midrange or Seas W22EX001. I'll be so broke to use 8 of the Accuton Midrange for each column.
From what I've read, I think Seas W22EX001 is an excellent candidate for very low distortion in OB type speakers (according to Linkwitz Labs).That would be permissable if it were a few of these. http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/zenamp.pdf and not one with those glowing bottle thingies like this http://www.usatubeaudio.com/omaha-300b.php
Hehe...I will probably be using DIY Pass Labs Amps (may be more Levinson).
Speaking of amps, I have yet to work on the stuff I bought from Jim's Audio. I've just finished overhauling my Denon POA-3000 as I was hit with the Fake Tosh 2SA1095 and got to redo the output stages 3 times. :eek: This amp has one of the deepest bass slam ever.
Have you decided on your Pass Labs Project yet? :cool:Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
If you go with glowing thingies, it should be something more Manley.That would be permissable if it were a few of these. http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/zenamp.pdf and not one with those glowing bottle thingies like this http://www.usatubeaudio.com/omaha-300b.php
Since you're going active, I would lean towards the SEAS drivers. You don't see many OB designs using Accuton drivers, and since you're going active, it's easy to avoid the SEAS's breakup up top.Thanks Mike! I am still splitting hairs whether to get Accuton Midrange or Seas W22EX001. I'll be so broke to use 8 of the Accuton Midrange for each column.
From what I've read, I think Seas W22EX001 is an excellent candidate for very low distortion in OB type speakers (according to Linkwitz Labs)."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
If you go with glowing thingies, it should be something more Manley.
Since you're going active, I would lean towards the SEAS drivers. You don't see many OB designs using Accuton drivers, and since you're going active, it's easy to avoid the SEAS's breakup up top.
Manly sounds good to me. May be I can use stingrays and I really like how you powering the LSi15s.
I am waiting for PE or Madisound to discount on SEAS 10". It seems like a good idea to use SEAS too since it's been tested and proven in the Orion++ setup.
SEAS 10" can go down to 20Hz to 3000Hz and may be the answer for the midrange between Rythmik Subs and Aurum Ribbons.
But I have another crazy idea. Is 4 way Line Array idea too much?
I am not going to build everything overnight but I'll be collecting pieces and pieces at time and will be doing it as budget permits. I am guessing it'll probably take 1 year or so to be completed.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
The Stingray is an integrated amp, but the later units have a passive output/sub out. jManly sounds good to me. May be I can use stingrays and I really like how you powering the LSi15s.
I am waiting for PE or Madisound to discount on SEAS 10". It seems like a good idea to use SEAS too since it's been tested and proven in the Orion++ setup.
SEAS 10" can go down to 20Hz to 3000Hz and may be the answer for the midrange between Rythmik Subs and Aurum Ribbons.
But I have another crazy idea. Is 4 way Line Array idea too much?
I am not going to build everything overnight but I'll be collecting pieces and pieces at time and will be doing it as budget permits. I am guessing it'll probably take 1 year or so to be completed.
Which 10's are you talking about? Their Magnesium alloy 10's are very impressive. They dig deep, have very low distortion, and are very articulate. Even in a ported enclosure they sound very tight. But just for sub duty, I would check out the new SEAS L26ROY. Besides being much cheaper, they are even more impressive down low and don't require a large cabinet. I'd love to pick up a pair of them for sealed stereo subs.
Personally, I would only go with a 3 way, especially for a noob.
A pair or quad of L26's for the bottom, open baffle W22EX001 mids, and your silly ribbons on top. "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
10" SEAS model I have in mind is the bigger brother of the W22EX001 which Orion++ used. These W26EX001 goes down to 20Hz and can go up to 1000Hz (I got confused with another driver and said 3000Hz in the previous post which is incorrect). The very stiff cones in these SEAs driver seems excellent for the OB use.
Now, where is the noob who wants to design a 4 way? Let me kick him in the nuts.
What is L26s? I got to have line array or no array at all....:)
Edit : I found out what L26s mean...:DTrying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
fixed it.:DIf you go with glowing thingies, it should be something more SheMan-ley
Now that sucks donkey b**ls.I've just finished overhauling my Denon POA-3000 as I was hit with the Fake Tosh 2SA1095 and got to redo the output stages 3 times. :eek:
Im thinking F5 but need to find a good chassis.Also I should finish the numerous projects I've got on the go before diving into another.Have you decided on your Pass Labs Project yet? :cool:
I want me a pair of them.tested and proven in the Orion++ setup.
I agree with Mike keep it a 3 way.But I have another crazy idea. Is 4 way Line Array idea too much?
:eek:your silly ribbons on top.
Another thing is linear excursion capability which is very important for OB useage.10" SEAS model I have in mind is the bigger brother of the W22EX001 which Orion++ used. These W26EX001 goes down to 20Hz and can go up to 1000Hz (I got confused with another driver and said 3000Hz in the previous post which is incorrect). The very stiff cones in these SEAs driver seems excellent for the OB use.
Yep because that must be what he's thinking with wanting to go 4 way:eek::D.Now, where is the noob who wants to design a 4 way? Let me kick him in the nuts.Testing
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For OB subs, check out the servo subs on the bottom line here: http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=11
The only thing I don't like about them is what appears to be a foam surround. In fact, I'll probably never buy another speaker with a foam surround due to their limited life span."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Hey, you can ask any of the Polkies who were here, she single handedly kicked the crap out of a B1/F5 combo.fixed it.:D
Check out the L26ROY's linear excursion, 28mm. :eek:Another thing is linear excursion capability which is very important for OB usage."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Thats info I really did'nt need to know.:(she single handedly kicked the crap out of a B1/F5 combo.
That might work.Check out the L26ROY's linear excursion, 28mm. :eek:Testing
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Since you're not a fan of tubes, you may have preferred the B1/F5 combo.Thats info I really did'nt need to know.:(
(probably not though)...
I believe it was due to the lack of baffle step and the Stingray's abundance of bass. Now that I've added some more baffle step, it might be a closer match."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
fixed it.:D
SheManley? A new tube pre from Manly? Named in the fashion of Pass Zen Series? Something like Bride of Zen?I want me a pair of them.
Yep, Orion++ would be an excellent speaker for anyone. The Orion++ kit is on sale now.Im thinking F5 but need to find a good chassis.Also I should finish the numerous projects I've got on the go before diving into another.
Yeah...I find it hard to find a good DIY chassis too. May be, there are good sources in HongKong but shipping charges is high.I agree with Mike keep it a 3 way.
Another thing is linear excursion capability which is very important for OB useage.
Yep because that must be what he's thinking with wanting to go 4 way:eek::D.
Can I call it 3 Way Plus Sub Arrays? It's hard to make 3 way and sounds awesome without a sub for OB. I've thought a lot about the driver choices and it's very limited what I can get. Cost is very high for very high quality drivers. And Even Orion+ has Thor SubWoofer to call it Orion++
Yep...Xmax is very important too. For OB, low distortion, no cone breakup, high Xmax is needed but there are not many speakers around designed for this application. With the drivers I could afford, frequency response is very limited as a trade off for all these desirable qualities. That's why I am thinking to go 3 way plus subs (hehe...no official 4 way).
I think I still have another great choice - Lambda from Acoustics Elegance (AE Speakers). I need to talk with John from AE to find out what he can do for me. I know he can optimize customs drivers and I think Q of 0.7 for OB Bass Drivers would be very nice. But the good Lambda drivers are not CHEAP either. 
Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
For OB subs, check out the servo subs on the bottom line here: http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=11
The only thing I don't like about them is what appears to be a foam surround. In fact, I'll probably never buy another speaker with a foam surround due to their limited life span.
Yep! I am not a fan of the foam surround either. The subs will not be OB. The servo sub array will be in sealed chambers.Hey, you can ask any of the Polkies who were here, she single handedly kicked the crap out of a B1/F5 combo.
Check out the L26ROY's linear excursion, 28mm. :eek:
I don't recall seeing the thread about B1/F5 combo reviewed here. I wonder is that the DIY attempt at B1/F5 or the retail PassLabs Products?
28mm Linear Xmax is pretty impressive. But L26ROYs are 4ohms and they'll be power hungry. I am thinking High Efficiency Speakers so let me cheat by saying the whole speakers are designed to be very efficient but there are powered subs. Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Have you looked at doing bass with the Linkwitz Transform circuit?
Well executed, the LT setup does some of the most amazing bass! Super musical, deep tight notes! By well done I mean with excellent electronics and don't try to do it with a small box. Use a good driver and carefully follow Linkwitz info and it can be a big winner for music!
The down side is due to excursion it's only appropriate for music, not movie effects. And a vinyl guy would have to have a rumble filter and watch out for over excursion.
The LT can be stunning when well done!
CoolJazzA so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping." -
Both DIY. I still have the B1, it's being used in my bedroom rig.I don't recall seeing the thread about B1/F5 combo reviewed here. I wonder is that the DIY attempt at B1/F5 or the retail PassLabs Products?"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Have you looked at doing bass with the Linkwitz Transform circuit?
Well executed, the LT setup does some of the most amazing bass! Super musical, deep tight notes! By well done I mean with excellent electronics and don't try to do it with a small box. Use a good driver and carefully follow Linkwitz info and it can be a big winner for music!
The down side is due to excursion it's only appropriate for music, not movie effects. And a vinyl guy would have to have a rumble filter and watch out for over excursion.
The LT can be stunning when well done!
CoolJazz
Thanks CJ! I remembered reading about LT circuits but don't remember a thing about it so I had to dig it up from the net to refresh my memory. It's an excellent theory and circuit to make cheap drivers perform like a champ in a sealed enclosure. Even though I don't remember which manufactures offer it, I there there are some subwoofer plate amps available with built-in LT circuit in the XO.
It's a very nice way to tune the LF driver in the sealed enclosure with passive filters. If it's not for the Direct Servo Subs, I would surely use LT circuits in the LF drivers.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Both DIY. I still have the B1, it's being used in my bedroom rig.
I know I probably shouldn't be saying this before wearing a flame suit and armored helmet.
But I think the DIY designs of Pass Series may not be as superior as the real B1/F5 combo?
I also think B1 may not be an ideal match to F5.
On the contrary, Stingray has ideally matched preamp driver circuits for it's Tube Amp so it should sounds good out of the box and it will sounds better than any mismatch combo. The only drawback is the limitation of power handling.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
That's possible, but the results weren't much different with a few different active preamps."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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It's very likely that a few different active preamp which probably does not match won't solve the problem either.
Anyway, I tried to make excuses even though it may not be the reasons why...:)
But What speakers were used in the test rig?Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Custom. ScanSpeak Air Circ, SEAS Excel W12CY-001, and SEAS Excel W26FX-001.
Below 200hz is a little off due to the room.
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Very Cool, Mike! I think I know this one. Very Nice FR graph. But why is there a dip around 50Hz-60Hz? XO correction, room acoustics? Is that FR from measured or simulated graph?Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
