Lower cost for DIY record cleaner

[Deleted User]

Hello,
For folks who would like a good quality record cleaning liquid that they can make themselves, you can use Tergitol 15-S-7. This has similar properties as the two Tergitol products, blended together, we've been using previously. So, this would allow one chemical to substitute for the two.
Regards, Ken

shack

What is the mix ratio for the Tergitol to distilled (I assume) water?

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I would imagine .25 parts Tergitol to 100 parts distilled water, but if you "pre-treat" with steam, then I would make the solution stronger since there will be some water on the surface already. In general terms, 2 tablespoons of cleaner to a gallon seems about right. But, I must admit I've not done much testing, just lots of cleaning.
Regards, Ken

shack

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
I would imagine .25 parts Tergitol to 100 parts distilled water, but if you "pre-treat" with steam, then I would make the solution stronger since there will be some water on the surface already. In general terms, 2 tablespoons of cleaner to a gallon seems about right. But, I must admit I've not done much testing, just lots of cleaning.
Regards, Ken

No I don't pre-treat. Just a cleaning and vacuum. Thanks.

dkg999

And a link from a quick search with at least one place to order it from:

https://www.colonialscientific.com/OScatalog/index.php?cPath=878_18934_59752_72759

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I've been doing lots of cleaning, recently, since I bought a whole bunch of interesting classical records from a used record store that was moving. Some of the labels I'd never heard of before. I found that the very best approach was to steam first, use the old style cleaning liquid, vacuum then a second steaming and another vacuuming. Sometimes noises on classical recordings can be more irritating that other kinds of music, more low level moments in the music, I suspect.
In any event this results in the most dynamic, quietest records I've heard. There have been some piano recordings that have amazing dynamic range and excellent transient detail. I just shake my head, unbelievable.
A clean record is a happy record.
Have fun, Ken

madmax

Hi Ken,
When you steam do you get right down on the record and really go at it?
madmax

dkg999

Ken - I've used steaming as a last resort on a record I really want to keep and not just look for another one to try. I've been using the following process with good results:

1) Home brew of 1 part isopropyl alchohol, 2 parts distilled water, and a couple of drops of Dawn anti-bacterial detergent - spray down LP, let sit for 2 or 3 minutes, then clean using three different brushes, going around the LP twice with each brush.
2) Vacuum with VPI 16.5
3) Clean with Tergitol S-9 in distilled water and a VPI record brush
4) Vacuum with VPI 16.5
5) Use MFSL Super Record Wash and an Osage record brush on the VPI 16.5 and vacuum.

Steps 1 and 3 are done on the kitchen counter. Let the labels dry and enjoy. It's a pretty long process, but as you say, a clean (and quiet) record is a happy record!

[Deleted User]

Hello Max,
I try and keep the Shark's nozzle about 4" over the record's surface, maybe 6". I have a manual Nitty Gritty that's got to be 25 years old, solid oak base. So I have to turn the record with my left hand and wave the steamer across the record, back-and-forth, with my right. My wife knows when I'm in the basement cleaning records, she says it sounds like a sweatshop laundry from upstairs. I have a wooden "puck" that covers most of the label, but I keep a cotton ball around to dry up the edge of the label before putting the record into the sleeve.
Hello dkg999,
Your system seems pretty similar to mine, I really like the Record Doctor's cleaning brush, nice wide path for scrubbing. I rock the brush on it's side so the edge, of the brush, can be pushed down for a sweep or two to get a nice deep cleaning. The only reason I do the second steaming is to make sure there's no cleaning liquid left on the surface. I have a couple of semi-transparent yellow tinted records and I can watch the under surface of the record as I vacuum it. The Nitty Gritty's "fuzzy lips" seem to gather the liquid up on the first pass, then it all goes down the suction slot on the second and third. Pretty dry, but a rinse with the steamer makes the record a little blacker (probably my imagination). The two original Tergitol chemicals (now can be replaced with one) were for oil based contaminents and water based contaminents, one for each. The Dawn approach is probably a very similar one, I've used Dawn to clean the surface of my turntable platter with good results, it takes a little care in getting the right amount of cleaner on the damp cloth.
Take care, Ken

strider

dkg999 wrote: »

And a link from a quick search with at least one place to order it from:

https://www.colonialscientific.com/OScatalog/index.php?cPath=878_18934_59752_72759

Talas was the place I found to be cheapest when I bought my tergitol supplies. No hassles when ordering, either. I'd had trouble getting any of the online chemical companies to ship me anything without having credentials.

http://www.talas-nyc.com/

Of corse, now that I check after I post the link, they only seem to carry the S-3 and S-9.

[Deleted User]

Hello Stryder,
TALAS is also a good source for other record repair supplies. Somehow I obtained a boxed opera set that had a totally smashed up lid. I look at records like some people look at pets in a kennel, I take them in, clean them up, fix what's broken and give them a good home. TALAS has an online section and I asked about replacement black cloth to make repairs to the lid sides and, in effect, re-build the box. I bought this really large roll of black cloth impregnated paper material, special library paste and a really great thin blade tool to remove the old box residue. After some careful restoration I was able to get a pretty nice looking repair and after cleaning and replacing the record sleeves I have a nice looking/sounding boxed set.
I recently used the same materials to repair one of those older classical records that has a small wooden dowel attached to the record sleeve. The idea is that you pull on the dowel and the record slips out of the jacket. This one was pretty messed up, but a couple of days later I had re-covered the dowel and where it attached to the record sleeve.
Good sounding records.
Ken

hearingimpared

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

I've used Dawn to clean the surface of my turntable platter with good results, it takes a little care in getting the right amount of cleaner on the damp cloth.
Take care, Ken

As an FYI, Harry Weisfeld from VPI recommends straight Windex to clean the platter and plinth of his turntables. I use it regularly.

[Deleted User]

Hello Hearing,
Thanks for the recommendation. I have a Maplenoll Ariadne Signature turntable with the lead platter that I painted a light blue (at the time I was impressed with the Proceed CD transport and D/A converter and was trying to copy the color scheme). The turntable has a tonearm damping trough that has mineral oil in it. Sometimes this gets on the platter and leaves a stain, I find that Dawn really cleans those off completely. The base of the turntable is made from thick Corian with a lead plate sandwiched in between. I talked with Bob Dilger, the designer of the Maplenolls, and he recommended using car polish to put a bit of a luster on the base.
I coated the tonearm in a silicate coated white paint to reduce ringing in the arm and that surface has always been hard to keep clean. The back part of the tonearm that has the air bearing manifold is a highly polished aluminum and I use a product that is used by boaters to keep metals clean and shinny. I think motorcycle owners call it "water" a can of raw cotton with a liquid cleaner impregnating the cotton. You pull off a bit of the cotton and rub it on the metal, works well.
Ken

thsmith

Is Tergitol a surfactant ? I use Triton X-114. Anyone know how they compare.

I use 8-10 drops per gallon.

dkg999

I order most of my restoration supplies from Talas, good company to deal with. I have a business set up for antiques, woodworking, etc. so I can order as a business customer and avoid some of the hassle.

Ken - the source I posted the link to you have to order a pretty good sized quantity of the S-7 to meet the min order. Did you have another source for it?

[Deleted User]

Hello,
I'm afraid I don't, I still am using the original two chemicals and haven't needed the S-7 alternative.
Maybe a "group buy", or contact Tergitol and ask for a sample? Tell them you're part of a volunteer group that cleans records for shut-in audiophiles? I can see the tee shirts, "A Clean Record is a Happy Record!".
Ken

dkg999

Hmmm, we might need to have some of those shirts made for the next Polkfest!

They've got a $200 order min. I'm not opposed to ordering that amount, if we had enough people to split up the cost. Rough calc is that amount would get us about 3500ml of S-7.

strider

dkg999 wrote: »

Hmmm, we might need to have some of those shirts made for the next Polkfest!

They've got a $200 order min. I'm not opposed to ordering that amount, if we had enough people to split up the cost. Rough calc is that amount would get us about 3500ml of S-7.

If you're set up with a business account try Spectrum Chemicals. IIRC they were cheaper then Talas but were hesitant to deal with me as an individual.


https://webstore.spectrumchemical.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?a=b&minisite=10020&respid=50577&item=1&itemGrpNum=T1258&isSupply=0

Fongolio

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
I would imagine .25 parts Tergitol to 100 parts distilled water, but if you "pre-treat" with steam, then I would make the solution stronger since there will be some water on the surface already. In general terms, 2 tablespoons of cleaner to a gallon seems about right. But, I must admit I've not done much testing, just lots of cleaning.
Regards, Ken

Ken, if you are trying to get a 400:1 mixture (.25 tergitol to 100 parts water) than using two tablespoons of tergitol per gallon is dramatically over mixing. One tablespoon is about 15 ml and a us gallon is about 3780 ml, therefore two tablespoons equals 30 ml in 3780 ml of water equal a mixture of 126:1. Over three times the recommended strength. Too strong a solution of tergitol can have the opposite effect. Tergitol leaves a residue and if mixed too strong that residue is harder to clean than a dirty record. For a us gallon you want to use 9.45 ml. A teaspoon is about 5 mil. Slightly less than two teaspoons per gallon is the correct mixture. If you are using Tergitol S-3 and Tergitol S-9 than it's slightly less than two teaspoons of each in one us gallon.

Entropy

I apologize for multiple posting, but I see that this thread is very current.

Does anyone have some extra Tergitol 15-S-3 & 15-S-7 they wouldn't mind selling in small quantities (~1 oz - 1 pt). I notice THSMITH responded to one of my other postings, and I am interested in trying the Triton X-114 also.

If you'd likje so sell some -3 & -7, please email me at pj1999pj AT yahoo DOT com .

Thanks
Entropy

dkg999

Hmmm, I mix mine in a 1 qt bottle (empty MFSL Super Record Wash bottle) and I think I definetely have it mixed too strong per the above. I do immediately spray the record with distilled water to wash off the Tergitol mix once I am done with the scrubbing, and haven't noticed any residue or sonic issues. Thanks for all the info on correct mixture, that is very helpful!

I can add that if you have an LP with candlewax dripped on it, and you really want to save it (ie a pretty rare Buddy Holly record!), put the record in the freezer for a few hours and then you can pop and gently rub the candlewax right off. Worked great!

[Deleted User]

Hello,
Thanks for pointing that out. Now you know why nobody ever eats my cupcakes, I meant teaspoons, but typed tablespoons.
The final mixture should produce a small amount of suds when you shake it up in a bottle that quickly disperses. I have two bottle the same size and shape, when I forget which is which I shake one of them and if there's a little foam I know I've got the cleaner.
Maybe I'll try that cupcake recipe again?
Ken

strider

Fongolio wrote: »

Ken, if you are trying to get a 400:1 mixture (.25 tergitol to 100 parts water) than using two tablespoons of tergitol per gallon is dramatically over mixing. One tablespoon is about 15 ml and a us gallon is about 3780 ml, therefore two tablespoons equals 30 ml in 3780 ml of water equal a mixture of 126:1. Over three times the recommended strength. Too strong a solution of tergitol can have the opposite effect. Tergitol leaves a residue and if mixed too strong that residue is harder to clean than a dirty record. For a us gallon you want to use 9.45 ml. A teaspoon is about 5 mil. Slightly less than two teaspoons per gallon is the correct mixture. If you are using Tergitol S-3 and Tergitol S-9 than it's slightly less than two teaspoons of each in one us gallon.

So it's a 400:1 ratio for each type of tergitol, rather then 400:1 total tergitol?

Fongolio

strider wrote: »

So it's a 400:1 ratio for each type of tergitol, rather then 400:1 total tergitol?

Correct. 400:1 for S-3 and 400:1 S-9. Slightly less than two teaspoons of each per gallon of water.

Fongolio

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
Thanks for pointing that out. Now you know why nobody ever eats my cupcakes, I meant teaspoons, but typed tablespoons.
The final mixture should produce a small amount of suds when you shake it up in a bottle that quickly disperses. I have two bottle the same size and shape, when I forget which is which I shake one of them and if there's a little foam I know I've got the cleaner.
Maybe I'll try that cupcake recipe again?
Ken

I wasn't trying to be a smart **** Ken. I just didn't want you or anyone else to have to do more work getting the residue off. This is one area where our Canadian metric system makes life easier. I mix mine in an empty 2 liter Coke bottle. 2 liters equals 2000 ml divided by 400 equals 5 ml equals 1 teaspoon. Simple. A lot better than quarts and pints and gallons (US or Imperial) etc. Now why are your cupcakes so friggn' salty?

Kelvin

Entropy

Hi THSmith,

Yes, the Tergitols mentioned here (15-s-3, 15-s-7, & 15-s-9) are all surfacants.

Best Regards,
-Entropy

thsmith wrote: »

Is Tergitol a surfactant ? I use Triton X-114. Anyone know how they compare.

I use 8-10 drops per gallon.

[Deleted User]

No problem, Kelvin,
When I first started thinking about a replacement cleaner (Torumat's inventor passed away and supplies dried up) and read about the Tergitol approach I was taking a tablespoon and measuring out how much 100 spoons full, of water, this was. This was eight years ago, I think, and can't remember how I came up with the strength. As long as some kind of vacuum is used I believe whatever residue is left can be removed. But no sense having the solution too strong in any event. Also, since steam cleaning puts additional moisture on the record's surface, to begin with, perhaps a stronger solution is appropriate?
I've been reading about how these chemicals make water "wetter" and it's very interesting. There are applications for agriculture, to get water to penetrate below soil surfaces more efficiently.
Take care, Ken

reeltrouble1

guys, I have been using Ken's original recipe with the two tergitol's mixed into a gallon of water for years and can certainly attest to their effectiveness, I suppose getting just one bottle with both chemicals might improve the cost efficiency but not sure.

I have found that after the VPI sucks the tergitol mix off the record it is best to then rinse with more distilled or dionized water or whatever water treatment system you may have/prefer. I typically just use a well dampened/soaked clean soft cotton cloth to get the rinse onto the record, although anyway you choose to get it on the record would work, I have found that the VPI will still leave trace amounts of rinse on the record. I use a curved stanton fiber brush to then dry brush off any trace amounts followed by another carbon brush once I have the record on the TT platter and clamped into place.

Ken good point about the steam cleaning adding more water into the mix to start with.

RT1

megasat16

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
Thanks for pointing that out. Now you know why nobody ever eats my cupcakes, I meant teaspoons, but typed tablespoons.
The final mixture should produce a small amount of suds when you shake it up in a bottle that quickly disperses. I have two bottle the same size and shape, when I forget which is which I shake one of them and if there's a little foam I know I've got the cleaner.
Maybe I'll try that cupcake recipe again?
Ken

I don't know how your vinyl cleaning recipe works since I haven't tried yet. I'll try it sometime soon.

But I'll tell you that you are not qualified to go near a kitchen to make anything eatable.

[Deleted User]

Hello,
Ah yes, you are correct. I'm glad my wife's a good cook.
Ken