System on/off ?

NJPOLKER
NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
edited August 2009 in 2 Channel Audio
I have read where solid state components can or should be left on for long or short periods of time if you play your system frequently. Long meaning weeks and short meaning days.Since I have a SS amp and a tube pre-amp I have a question/concern about turning off the pre-amp and leaving the amp on. Since I have to turn the amp off first then the pre-amp and lastly the CDP how do I just turn the tube pre-amp off? I turned the tube pre-amp off once before the amp and didn't like what I heard. What happens if I leave the tube pre-amp on for days?
Maybe I am making much ado about nothing but do think about this stuff. I still have so much to learn :)
Thanks Drew
Post edited by NJPOLKER on
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  • thuffman03
    thuffman03 Posts: 1,325
    edited August 2009
    Never heard of that before. I know I wait a while before I start to task my amp with playing it louder. Might run a low volume for about 5 min. Lets everything warm up a bit. I turn everything off when I am done using it.

    On my tube cd player it has a button to allow some power to keep the tubes warm so I don't have to wait 30 seconds. It just has me wait 10 seconds before it will start to play.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited August 2009
    My Benchmark PRE goes into standby (8 watts) when turned "off." I turn everything else off.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited August 2009
    Some very limited amount of equipment doesn't reach full quality until powered on for up to four days, most sounds fine after a few hours, the majority is good after an hour. I've had all of the above scenarios and it is obvious with most pieces. Preamps and small tubes in general seem to take longer.

    SS amps sound just as bad after on for weeks as they do when you first power them up. (a joke, but still true :))
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,030
    edited August 2009
    Dude, take a chance and leave the entire system on for 4 days. Then get back to us.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited August 2009
    I've heard that you can leave your SS amp on 24/7...and that actually puts 'less' stress on it then constantly turning it on and off?

    I often leave mine one for a week or ...more.

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,030
    edited August 2009
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Dude, take a chance and leave the entire system on for 4 days. Then get back to us.
    Forgot one thing............THEN give it a serious listen. :D
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2009
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Dude, take a chance and leave the entire system on for 4 days. Then get back to us.

    4 days!!!!!!!!!!! Its been on for two weeks. My concern is that I may not be doing the tube pre-amp any good for the long term. Right now I am running music like that because I want to be certain everything is burned-in properly.
    My concern is leaving the tube pre-amp on for days. I understand that I may be better off leaving my amp on when listening frequently day after day. I don't like turning off the pre-amp before the amp. So turning the pre-amp off should mean I should turn the amp off first if I do things in proper order. Proper order being pre-amp on first amp second and them in reverse when shutting down. So, should I turn the amp and pre-amp off when run day to day?
    I hope this makes some sense.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited August 2009
    Here's a related thread from a few days ago.http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86715
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,499
    edited August 2009
    So, should I turn the amp and pre-amp off when run day to day?

    Does your pre have a mute switch? Muting can allow you to turn the pre amp off without turning the amp off first. If not, shut the amp off, then the pre, and leave them both off until you are ready to go.

    I shut all my my gear off, which includes tube source/tube pre amp and my SS amps which could be left on all the time. Matter of fact, I even unplug it all from the wall. I had a freak thunderstorm during the winter a couple of years back, and was glad I had my gear unplugged. A groundstrike came through all the underground cabling (power, cable TV and phone) and did thousands of dollars in damage.

    If you can't detect a difference between leaving the gear on and turning it off, I wouldn't get too worried about it. Don't let a group make your decisions for you, including the tubes rule faction. Listen for yourself, then decide.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited August 2009
    I've heard this before...but I've never really experimented with it. My Adcom GFA-545 usually sounds a little harsh for the first few minutes that it's on...but past that it makes no difference IMO. It sounds exactly the same whether it's been on for 5 minutes or 5 hours.

    I turn everything off when I'm not using it, unless I plan to come back and do more listening within the next hour or so. If other people hear the difference with "warmed up" gear...that's fine, but I don't feel a need to senselessly waste electricity if I don't hear a difference.

    Give it a try...that's the only way you'll know if it makes a difference to you.
    The nirvana inducer-
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  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 570
    edited August 2009
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    So, should I turn the amp and pre-amp off when run day to day?

    Does your pre have a mute switch? Muting can allow you to turn the pre amp off without turning the amp off first.

    Actually a mute switch may not solve the problem. Depends on whether the design is a relay opening last thing or not!

    The issue to understand with driving a tube preamp into a solid state amp is that the high voltage of a tube circuit is typically blocked with a capacitor. That capacitor is the only thing preventing dumping DC into the amp. Now the amp may also block DC...or not.

    When a circuit powers up, it takes a certain time for the capacitor to charge. Some level of DC sneaks through for a brief moment during that time. If your amp is DC coupled, or has opamps on the input, you've got problems!! If it's a DC coupled amp (there are a few) then you're going to seriously challenge the health of any attached speakers! If it's an opamp, then the high voltage is going to potentially break it down over time and eventually it may go into oscillation creating a nasty situation.

    As far as a tube preamp being left on....as long as it's a well designed casework and you don't bottle it up with tight placement, then there is nothing wrong with it being on. I've run a preamp with 6FQ7's for years. I'm on my third set of tubes and I must be at about 15 years. After about 6-7 years, I notice the noise floor getting higher and know it's time for a tube change.

    It's the big tube finals that have shorter lifes and consume way more power that make more sense to shut down.

    CoolJazz
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."

    More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping."
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,499
    edited August 2009
    CoolJazz wrote: »
    Actually a mute switch may not solve the problem. Depends on whether the design is a relay opening last thing or not!

    True, that is why I said can allow. I can mute and turn off my ModWright pre before the amps without any problems. Should have said might allow. Not an absolute for all pre amps, by any means.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited August 2009
    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    I've heard this before...but I've never really experimented with it. My Adcom GFA-545 usually sounds a little harsh for the first few minutes that it's on...but past that it makes no difference IMO. It sounds exactly the same whether it's been on for 5 minutes or 5 hours.

    I turn everything off when I'm not using it, unless I plan to come back and do more listening within the next hour or so. If other people hear the difference with "warmed up" gear...that's fine, but I don't feel a need to senselessly waste electricity if I don't hear a difference.

    Give it a try...that's the only way you'll know if it makes a difference to you.


    Ditto. My Oinker sounds like **** for the first 5-10 minutes, then smooths out.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited August 2009
    The only thing that I keft on was Odyssey amps when I owned them. Rich,,is the MW phase inverting?
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,499
    edited August 2009
    george daniel wrote: »
    Rich,,is the MW phase inverting?

    George, yes, the MW SWL/SWLP 9.0 inverts absolute phase, so I swap the pos and neg at the speaker. This way it remains obvious to me. It's also a good test for folks that come over and check the gear out. :D
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,030
    edited August 2009
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    If you can't detect a difference between leaving the gear on and turning it off, I wouldn't get too worried about it.
    Absolutely.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,418
    edited August 2009
    My system is ready to go right from the start and amazes me more and more each time I turn it on. It reminds me of that Cadillac commercial. To paraphrase "when you turn your system on, Does it return the favor?" I power down every nite entirely, but use the auto sense feature of my Sunfire to detect signal and turn on and off by itself
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

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  • jm1
    jm1 Posts: 618
    edited August 2009
    My pre and amp are designed and recommended to be powered on 24/7. My DAC does not have a power switch so its always on. I also leave the active crossover between the pre and amp on due to the connected components being always on.

    I have had the system powered off for awhile lately and have not noticed any difference in the utility bills.
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  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited August 2009
    I shut mine down since it runs freakin hot in standby mode and it only gets used a few times a week. It sounds great right out of the chute.
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