Want to know how to waste your money?
Comments
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Yeah, I don't think I could ever spend that much either. High-end audio can get questionable. Up until a point there are noticeable/measurable differences but once you get so high and performance cannot be described objectively or subjectively, I'm just afraid I'd be buying snake oil. Could I hear a difference between a $5K and a $10K CDP? Probably not. They are both so good, and the differences (if any) would be so small as too not justify the price tag, IMO. But to others it may be. I'm not a millionaire... yet!
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Again, I will agree to disagree. The analog stage and power supply of a $800 CDP is a joke...you've completely robbed yourself of any value. I think the best idea would be to buy a used $800 DAC that was once a reference.
A link to an iPod's DAC (Wolfson DAC) measurements done by Mr. Atkinson:
http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/934/index5.html
In summary it measures better then many CD players. Consider Dave Wilson used an iPod to prove the usefulness of spending one's funds on transducers. I'm not one for such trickery nor do I believe sound can be better then the source in which it came from but my entire point is that a DAC found in an iPod isn't as inferior as some might think.
I don't have much of a stake in the DACs in an ipod...but a good friend of mine would probably have a fit if he read that...he absolutely HATES apple and ipods...I don't use one so I can't comment, you may be right.
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
If I remember right, the 4th and 5th gen ipods have the Wolfsen DAC which does pretty well, whereas the touch has a poorer dac. Right?
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This was used in some generations/models but I'm not sure specifically which.If I remember right, the 4th and 5th gen ipods have the Wolfsen DAC which does pretty well, whereas the touch has a poorer dac. Right?
[url] http://wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/documents/en/WM8971.pdf[/url] As you can see from the data sheet the DAC and analog output are part of the same IC.This integration allows low parts count thus low cost,but I believe even if the D-A performance was passable the analog section is not exactly stellar and IMO accounts for much of it's sonic short comings.Comprimises have to be made to fit it into the small IC package.
Having just purchased an ipod Classic (to use as a little music server for mostly background non critical listening) I found the Stereophile article that Lush linked to intersting and timely.:).Hooking the Classic into my main rig proved interesting and my impressions are very similar to those stated by Wes Philips in the article. Using lossless files it sounded much better than I had expected but was not the equal of good CD play back.It is certainly good enough for the purpose for which I intend to use it.
btw.I'm not sure if it uses the same Wolfson IC I linked to but if not I suspect it will use one very similar.Testing
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I don’t think you can judge a CDP just by the price. Anyone who thinks you have to spend $5K or more should listen to a Rega Saturn at ½ that price first. Even the entry level Apollo is still a very impressive CDP.
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Anyone who thinks you have to spend $5K or more should listen to a Rega Saturn at ½ that price first.
I submit that it would depend on the level of the rest of your gear......actually, I should say that the rest of your gear should depend on your source. There's a damn good reason high end CD/SACD players cost a pretty penny, they perform at a much higher level.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Terms describing value have no place in determining the musicality or performance of a system. The system is either musical, accurate, involving in priority of importance to its owner or it is not. To say it sounds good enough or even fantastic based on cost comparisons or value judgements such as "for what I use it for its great" really have no place in the overall evaluation of perfomance.
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Hooking the Classic into my main rig proved interesting and my impressions are very similar to those stated by Wes Philips in the article. Using lossless files it sounded much better than I had expected but was not the equal of good CD play back.It is certainly good enough for the purpose for which I intend to use it.
One point. Stereophile and the absolute sound (the month before) were reviewing the Wadia, and were running the Wadia digital out into either an external DAC, or the digital input of a high-end CD player. In the case of the high-end CDP player, no difference in sound quality could be discerned between either the iPod/Wadia, or the CD player as a source.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I was refering to Wes Philips comments in this 2004 article http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/934/index.html using the analog ouputs only.With access to digital data it's not a stretch for me to believe that the ipod/Wadia combo mated to an excellent outboard DAC could rival a good CDP.:)One point. Stereophile and the absolute sound (the month before) were reviewing the Wadia, and were running the Wadia digital out into either an external DAC, or the digital input of a high-end CD player. In the case of the high-end CDP player, no difference in sound quality could be discerned between either the iPod/Wadia, or the CD player as a source.
Interestingly I have found two inexpensive ipod docking stations that have digital(optical)outputs.I'm not sure if it is the direct digital data or if they are merely doing a an A-D conversion of the analog outputs?If its the latter then it would be worse than just using the analog outputs.Testing
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Interestingly I have found two inexpensive ipod docking stations that have digital(optical)outputs.I'm not sure if it is the direct digital data or if they are merely doing a an A-D conversion of the analog outputs?If its the latter then it would be worse than just using the analog outputs.
Who makes them? I have been trying to pay attention to see if anyone else comes out with a Wadia competition, and so far I keep hearing Wadia is the only docking station that extracts the digital data, WITHOUT DOING AN UNAUTHORIZED MOD INTO THE IPOD. Somebody hacks into the iPod and gets the digital, but that voids the warrenty so you need to rely on them if the iPod breaks.
Bel Canto is suppossed to be coming out with an iPod dock like the Wadia, but I doubt if it will be inexpensive.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Philips http://www.dlo.com/products/view/HD_HDWho makes them?
The above linked item may as I suggested in my previous post just convert the analog out to digital,though this would be inferior to just using the straight analog outs.I would like to find out for sure if that is the case or if it does indeed extract the digital data.and so far I keep hearing Wadia is the only docking station that extracts the digital data,
The exact reason I won't be opening mine up (if need be)until the warranty period is well past.Somebody hacks into the iPod and gets the digital, but that voids the warrenty so you need to rely on them if the iPod breaks.
Yes and IIRC an integral DAC and pre.And yes it won't be cheap.Bel Canto is suppossed to be coming out with an iPod dock like the Wadia, but I doubt if it will be inexpensive.Testing
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Who makes them? I have been trying to pay attention to see if anyone else comes out with a Wadia competition, and so far I keep hearing Wadia is the only docking station that extracts the digital data, WITHOUT DOING AN UNAUTHORIZED MOD INTO THE IPOD. Somebody hacks into the iPod and gets the digital, but that voids the warrenty so you need to rely on them if the iPod breaks.
Bel Canto is suppossed to be coming out with an iPod dock like the Wadia, but I doubt if it will be inexpensive.
Finally some competition to Wadia's dock. Maybe this will bring the price down a little.
http://www.techradar.com/news/audio/portable-audio/onkyo-nd-sd1-ipod-dock-bringing-bit-perfect-audio-626864
The Onkyo ND-SD1 ipod dock
Same digital out as Wadia. Set to be released in the UK in or around October. -
it seems as though waxing on about money is the metric for your particular standard, accordingly have you owned any 5k or 10k digital or analog source upon which your comparitive value judgement of these components is based? if not, understandable based on personal priorites but why even mention? perhaps a listing of the associated gear being used would be helpful, this is the advanced section of our forum and the members here consist of a large diverse cross-section experienced in all levels of audio.
FTR--the many fine folks at CP have answered thousands of questions regarding ANY home theater question and continue to do, not sure of the agenda/reason with your link.
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reeltrouble1 wrote: »FTR--the many fine folks at CP have answered thousands of questions regarding ANY home theater question and continue to do, not sure of the agenda/reason with your link.
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Jefferson Fetters, who helps keep avtruths running, has been very helpful to me while setting up my home theater and giving me great advice for free. I thought I'd give him some respect and mention his site. Is that okay with you? Didn't know I had to get your approval first. Can I please keep this link, mommy? -
sure, although it does not seem to work, one thing though. I'm your Daddy.
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reeltrouble1 wrote: »sure, although it does not seem to work, one thing though. I'm your Daddy.
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You got me!
