To sub or not to sub.
rdb2001
Posts: 791
I have been upgrading alot and finally finished my setup. I went from Polk polk monitor 50 mains to Kef IQ7s as my mains. I find myself listening to more 2 channel audio than watching movies these days. Furthermore I find myself turning my sub off( which is very musical, good job martin logan) and setting my speakers to full range, closing my eyes and enjoying good music. I guess my question is how many use a sub in their 2 channel setup. Also did you also find yourself just not using a sub for 2 channel audio. I am in the process of building a dedicated 2 channel rig but just curious about this one. Thanks.
Post edited by rdb2001 on
Comments
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Nice system,to use a sub with 2ch audio depends on your personal taste.Linn AV5140 fronts
Linn AV5120 Center
Linn AV5140 Rears
M&K MX-70 Sub for Music
Odyssey Mono-Blocs
SVS Ultra-13 Gloss Black:D -
Pretty setup there. I see where you are coming from with the decision to use a sub or not. For me, it totally depends on the genre of music. I am not gonna turn off the sub when listening to the Black Eyed Peas, etc. Likewise, gonna turn off the sub when listening to a female vocalist.
Edit: On a tangent here, have you ever considered acoustic panels behind your main speakers, or even bass traps in the corners? Wooden floors like that can really distort sound. Your room looks pretty wide open with a lot of space to fill.TV: LG 55LW5600
Pre: Marantz SR6001
Front Amp: Parasound HCA-1000A
Center Amp: Marantz MA500
Mains: Polk LSi9
Center: Polk LSiC
Sub: HSU VTF-3 MK-2
Games: Xbox360 and PS3 -
I've tried it with and without. I prefer with.
I look at it like this; even though a set of speakers may be 'full range', and go down to 20Hz, a sub is purpose built to do the job. Bass takes more power than mids and treble to achieve the same volume.
By using the sub, it eases the burden on the amp, allowing more details to come through, with more headroom. YMMV. -
i prefer to run the sub at lower volumes and off at high volumes personally.Living Room Rig:D
Rotel RSP-1069/Rotel RMB-1095/Rotel-1072/Polk lsI15's W/modded xoverW/DBsubs/Polk LsiC/lsI7's/Klipsch sub-12"the weak link"/DLP Mitsubishi 65"
Xbox360/PS3/WII
M.Br. setup:)
Emotiva MMC-1/Rotel RMB-1075/Polk BlackStone TL350's/Velodyne SPL1000/Samsung 51" Plasma
Computer Rig:
Rotel RB1050/Tannoy DC4's/Klipsch RW-10d/ImodIpod/HK AVR230 for now....
Headphones-Ultrasone-HFI780's w/LittleDot MK Vamp Portables Panasonic HJE-900's -
I run my mains full range, but also run a sub using line level connections. I have one rca Y cable from the L preout, and one Y cable from the R preout. I set the the sub crossover at about 45hz. I find that some music sounds better with the sub and some sounds worse. To be honest, if I didn't have the sub before buying the Lsi 25s, I doubt would have bought one siince they have tons of bass and my focus is on music. At the same time, I occasionally hear bass in songs that I have never heard before. I would advise anyone who is considering using a sub for two channel to not bother unless you have one that is very "musical."MAIN: Polk Lsi9s; Polk PSW505; Lsic (in box); Onkyo SR-875; Parasound 2250; Cambridge Audio 740C; LG BD370
OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s -
Looks like a very "live" room. The acoustic treatments mentioned might be a cool thing to try if you get the opportunity. I'm not there to hear it though, so definately not passing judgement. It really all boils down to what sounds best for you. In this hobby there is no wrong or right. They are your dollars to spend, and your listening room. However, they don't look like they dig that deep (36 to 40 hz'ish). Once again, not criticizing, that may sound great in your room. I personally would want a little back up in the bottom end.
Peace, Christopher"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin, February 17th, 1775.
"The day that I have to give up my constitutional rights AND let some dude rub my junk...well, let's just say that it's gonna be a real bad day for the dude trying to rub my junk!!"
messiah, November 23rd, 2010 -
Well, I have rti 8's so I have no choice but to use the sub. A Bic H-100, while it may output a lot of bass, it is not super tight bass or very musical either. So basically music sucks for me. Rap sounds OK though.Currently looking for speakers(spending 1K)
Onkyo 805 -
I run my mains full range, but also run a sub using line level connections. I have one rca Y cable from the L preout, and one Y cable from the R preout. I set the the sub crossover at about 45hz. I find that some music sounds better with the sub and some sounds worse. To be honest, if I didn't have the sub before buying the Lsi 25s, I doubt would have bought one siince they have tons of bass and my focus is on music. At the same time, I occasionally hear bass in songs that I have never heard before. I would advise anyone who is considering using a sub for two channel to not bother unless you have one that is very "musical."
I do the same.
Interestingly enough, though, i find myself ditching the sub more and more lately. Really depends on what i'm listening to, though.I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
lessisnevermore wrote: »i've tried it with and without. I prefer with.
I look at it like this; even though a set of speakers may be 'full range', and go down to 20hz, a sub is purpose built to do the job. Bass takes more power than mids and treble to achieve the same volume.
By using the sub, it eases the burden on the amp, allowing more details to come through, with more headroom. Ymmv.
....+ 1 -
Nice system,to use a sub with 2ch audio depends on your personal taste.
I agree...It does come down to personal taste. I sometimes like to rumble my house with base and sometimes I don't. I run a sub on my 2 channel system and I play with the volume depending on what I am listing too or how I want to hear the music.Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t -
Correct me if I'm wrong here.....
From what I've seen, most opinions pertaining to subs are, Musical=Sealed, and Ported=Boom.
I bet those same folks would be surprised by how much bass traps can reduce/eliminate a sub's perceived 'boomy-ness'. I was convinced I needed a new sub, until the traps-now, not so much.
If your sub is boomy, try a trap in each corner. They really can work miracles, even with a ported sub. Once your room is under control, you can play with placement to further fine tune.
I've never been overly impressed with small, sealed subs. They are nice and punchy, but generally can't match the low output of a 12" or larger.
As always, YMMV. -
LessisNevermore wrote: »I've never been overly impressed with small, sealed subs. They are nice and punchy, but generally can't match the low output of a 12" or larger.
As always, YMMV.
I will have to disagree with you on small to large subs and on ported to sealed.
I have a Sunfire True Sub and it is a sealed dual 10" sub and it hammers harder than any ported or sealed sub I have ever heard. I also think it sounds very nice in my 2 channel system reproducing music.
I really think it comes down to how the sub is designed. Ported or sealed don't make much of a difference to my ear on being better in one catagory to another.Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t -
Normally I don't use the sub unless the music has HEAVY BASS.
And when I run the SDAs I don't see ANY need for a sub....they can certainly put out bass below 30hz. And have plenty of POWER available from the Adcom.
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
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No sub for me and my SDA's and I love it that way!
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SDA's do a very good job in the sub 30 hz level. My carver AL III's go to 23 hz. I have a sub only to help my amp because of the ribbons on my speakers can demand lots of power. I cross over ever from 45 hz and down to the sub.Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t
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thuffman03 wrote: »I will have to disagree with you on small to large subs and on ported to sealed.
I have a Sunfire True Sub and it is a sealed dual 10" sub and it hammers harder than any ported or sealed sub I have ever heard. I also think it sounds very nice in my 2 channel system reproducing music.
I really think it comes down to how the sub is designed. Ported or sealed don't make much of a difference to my ear on being better in one catagory to another.
That's why I qualified it with 'generally'.;)
2 10's have more surface area than a single 12".
I was speaking more of single driver designs.
We agree on sealed vs. ported. -
LessisNevermore wrote: »That's why I qualified it with 'generally'.;)
2 10's have more surface area than a single 12".
I was speaking more of single driver designs.
We agree on sealed vs. ported.
Okay...I generally think of my sub as a single because only one driver is active and the other is passive. But the passive does create sound as well. So the surface area would be larger than a single 12" sub.Sunfire TGP, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Sunfire 300~2 (2), Sunfire True Sub (2),Carver ALS Platinum, Carver AL III, TFM-55, C-19, C-9, TX-8, SDA-490t, SDA-390t -
Thanks guys for all the responses. The speakers dont really dig to deep but I just find myself using a sub less and less. I will say that small sealed subs can look like they will not put out. But the Martin Logan sub has shocked everyone, including myself, that has heard it. These are svs owners and my living room is huge with 16ft vaulted ceiling and they are amazed how a sub so small can fill my room that also opens up to my kitchen. A second ML is definitely around the corner.
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The speakers in my 2-channel rig were selected with the intention of using subs to do most of the bass. I plug both ports on the speakers and x/o to the subs at 100 Hz. I get extremely smooth response all the way down to the 25 Hz band - plus or minus a couple of dB, in fact. And the subs aren't anything special at all. Velodyne DLS4000R's (12" 400W slot loaded). So...I use the subs all the time!THE MAN-CAVE 5.1 CHANNEL A/V RIG
Sony KDS-60A3000
a/d/s/ HT-400LCR (3)
a/d/s/ HT-300 (2)
Velodyne DLS-4000R (2)
Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi
Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai
Sony BDP-S300
Sony SLV-779HF
DirecTV HD sat. receiver
MAN-CAVE 2-CHANNEL RIG (shares sources with a/v system)
Adcom GFA-5500
Bose 901 Series VI
NAD C-165BEE
Slim Devices Squeezebox Classic
TEAC CD-RW890
Technics SL-BD20D w/ Audio-Technica P34
Akai HX-A3X -
Not every sealed sub is small. The Velo SPL-1500R is sealed and is 15 inches.MAIN: Polk Lsi9s; Polk PSW505; Lsic (in box); Onkyo SR-875; Parasound 2250; Cambridge Audio 740C; LG BD370
OFFICE: Polk Lsi7; REL T3; HK 3490; CA 840W; Onkyo C-S5VL
BENCHED: CS20; OWM3s -
My mains have bass modules that go down to 25hz. I also use a 15" Velo and have it crossed over at 35 Hz. The only time I turn the sub off is when I'm listening late at night or in the morning as a courtesy to my neighbor. But if it wasn't for them, it would be on all the time. I do this for 2 reasons:
1) I'm striving for realistic musical reproduction. If there is bass information on the cd then I want to hear it the way it was recorded. Lots of classical music has plenty of low end information. Rolled off bass doesn't meet my goal.
2) Low frequency bass is my favorite part of the whole sound spectrum, so I don't skimp on this part. I like it low, clean and tight!
