SurroundBar 50 setup suggestions?

MarkBart0305

So I just got a SurroundBar 50 and PSW111 subwoofer and planned on connecting it to my AV receiver using the standard 5.1 setup, with my subwoofer connected via RCA cable. However, the instructions give me an alternative setup option that claims gives off better sound quality. You connect the center, surround left and right to the receiver, while connecting the front left and right to the subwoofer. In the setup menu, you turn off the subwoofer, set the left and right speaker channels to large, and the center and rear channels to small.

So what do you guys suggest? Would this be a better setup, or should I stick to what I originally planned? I really don't feel like running separate speaker wire to my subwoofer, but if it's worth it, I'd be willing to do it.

jimbo1421

Hi MB,

Check out the SDA White Paper (http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/whitepapers/SDA_WhitePaper.pdf). The last two pages give the two set up options, depending on your room and audio preferences. There is also a lengthy debate in the review thread. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35221

I have a SurroundBar 42 and PSW10 for my HT and hooked them up the "Polk way", i.e. the SW is wired in parallel with the fronts. Crossover on my SW is set to 120Hz. If I had used the SW output on my AVR then everything below 90Hz would be sent to the SW (no other crossover choices are available to me). Since the SB 42 doesn't have much bass output I would be missing a lot between 90-100Hz. Set up as I have it I get good seamless bass on music.

Try both arrangements and let your ears be your guide.

Regards,
Jim

MarkBart0305

jimbo1421 wrote: »

Hi MB,

Check out the SDA White Paper (http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/whitepapers/SDA_WhitePaper.pdf). The last two pages give the two set up options, depending on your room and audio preferences. There is also a lengthy debate in the review thread. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35221

I have a SurroundBar 42 and PSW10 for my HT and hooked them up the "Polk way", i.e. the SW is wired in parallel with the fronts. Crossover on my SW is set to 120Hz. If I had used the SW output on my AVR then everything below 90Hz would be sent to the SW (no other crossover choices are available to me). Since the SB 42 doesn't have much bass output I would be missing a lot between 90-100Hz. Set up as I have it I get good seamless bass on music.

Try both arrangements and let your ears be your guide.

Regards,
Jim

Thanks for your help, although now I'm a little confused at the directions regarding the "Polk way" connection.

4. Connect the subwoofer using the high level (speaker level) inputs from the same Left and Right front amplifier channels that are connected to the Surround Bar.

Does this mean that in addition to running all five channels of speaker wire from the SurroundBar to the receiver, you run a separate set for the front right and left from the receiver to the subwoofer? Please excuse my lack of knowledge on this stuff. I'm much more of a videophile than an audiophile.

MarkBart0305

Bump

Can somebody answer my question really quick before I go to Best Buy? I'd really appreciate it.

jimbo1421

MarkBart0305 wrote: »

Thanks for your help, although now I'm a little confused at the directions regarding the "Polk way" connection.

4. Connect the subwoofer using the high level (speaker level) inputs from the same Left and Right front amplifier channels that are connected to the Surround Bar.

Does this mean that in addition to running all five channels of speaker wire from the SurroundBar to the receiver, you run a separate set for the front right and left from the receiver to the subwoofer? Please excuse my lack of knowledge on this stuff. I'm much more of a videophile than an audiophile.

That's right. Two sets of wires on the receiver's RF & LF. They go to the speaker input on the SW. Banana plugs can make the connections easier. You can get stackable banana plugs for the doubled up connection.

Jim

MarkBart0305

jimbo1421 wrote: »

That's right. Two sets of wires on the receiver's RF & LF. They go to the speaker input on the SW. Banana plugs can make the connections easier. You can get stackable banana plugs for the doubled up connection.

Jim

Wow, I totally misread the directions and the diagram in the manual. I thought you bypass the front right and left on the receiver and just go straight to the subwoofer from the SurroundBar, but in fact you connect two sets of wires to the receiver's front right and left (one from the SurroundBar and one from the subwoofer).

So I'm thinking I'll use the speaker cable that came with the SurroundBar to connect it to my receiver, then buy some banana plugs to connect the fronts on my receiver to the subwoofer. You think that'll work?

jimbo1421

I am going by this diagram for my SB 42 (attached).

"That's right. Two sets of wires on the receiver's RF & LF. They go to the speaker input on the SW."

I should have said that the second set goes to the speaker input on the SW.

Jim

TECHNOKID

jimbo1421 wrote: »

I am going by this diagram for my SB 42 (attached).

"That's right. Two sets of wires on the receiver's RF & LF. They go to the speaker input on the SW."

I should have said that the second set goes to the speaker input on the SW.

Jim

I personnally think this way is a big waiste of power (poor power management). It sure is to Polk's advantage to lead you through (not using the subwoofer amp) this way but not yours. What is a sense of paying for a powered subwoofer if you do not use that power it provides you? We all know that AVRs are somewhat limited in power and quality of power and in most cases we suggest external amps for optimum results. We also strongly suggest to divert ALL bass frequencies to the LFE and set the Xo appropriately in order to alleviate the work of the AVR and 5 channels. Now, this way is the total opposite, suggesting to avoid using the sub own amp and use the AVR for this extra task. Not to count that using the LFE also has some benefits (subsonic low frequencies).

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/howto/805bass/

http://audiodesignlabs.com/wordpress/category/tech_talk/lfe_subwoofer_bass-management/

Cheers!
TK

jimbo1421

TECHNOKID wrote: »

I personnally think this way is a big waiste of power (poor power management). It sure is to Polk's advantage to lead you through (not using the subwoofer amp) this way but not yours. What is a sense of paying for a powered subwoofer if you do not use that power it provides you? We all know that AVRs are somewhat limited in power and quality of power and in most cases we suggest external amps for optimum results. We also strongly suggest to divert ALL bass frequencies to the LFE and set the Xo appropriately in order to alleviate the work of the AVR and 5 channels. Now, this way is the total opposite, suggesting to avoid using the sub own amp and use the AVR for this extra task. Not to count that using the LFE also has some benefits (subsonic low frequencies).

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/howto/805bass/

http://audiodesignlabs.com/wordpress/category/tech_talk/lfe_subwoofer_bass-management/

Cheers!
TK

Hi TK & MB,

Last weekend I moved my whole HT setup from the corner by the dining room to the front, short wall of my 13' x 19' living room. So I had the opportunity to try hooking up my PSW10 subwoofer both ways: from the subwoofer output on the Yamaha RX-V496 and from the RF & LF speaker level outputs. It's close but I have to give the edge to the "Polk way" for a more musical bass. My test was "Flamenco Sketches" from Miles Davis' Kind of Blue which has a very distinctive string bass line. The notes sound more full, distinct and plucked at a higher volume level from speaker level than with the sub output. They just seem to blend better.

I also tried the DTS surround using battle scenes from Master & Commander as my test. In this I could hear no difference between connection methods. It is possible that the PSW10 doesn't reach down low enough to take full advantage of all the LFE. Still, the cannon shots had a satisfying thump. The way that the Yamaha works is to send all LFE and bass below 90 Hz to the fronts and thus to the subwoofer if MAIN is chosen in the setup menu. So I think I am getting everything the PSW10 can do.

Moving the SurroundBar from the corner to the center of the opposite front wall has also made a huge difference in its performance. In the corner I got a reflection on the left while the right surround was diminished by the opening to the dining room. The surround effect is much more enveloping now.

Regards,
Jim

TECHNOKID

jimbo1421 wrote: »

Hi TK & MB,
I also tried the DTS surround using battle scenes from Master & Commander as my test. In this I could hear no difference between connection methods. It is possible that the PSW10 doesn't reach down low enough to take full advantage of all the LFE. Still, the cannon shots had a satisfying thump. The way that the Yamaha works is to send all LFE and bass below 90 Hz to the fronts and thus to the subwoofer if MAIN is chosen in the setup menu. So I think I am getting everything the PSW10 can do.
Moving the SurroundBar from the corner to the center of the opposite front wall has also made a huge difference in its performance. In the corner I got a reflection on the left while the right surround was diminished by the opening to the dining room. The surround effect is much more enveloping now.

Regards,
Jim

Actually, you are right it will not make much difference because the PSW10 doesn't have tha LFE option: http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/psw/specs.php
My only concern with Polk's suggested way of hooking-up the subwoofer is why would waiste money on apowered subwoofer when the suggested method is to use your AVR to power the sub, if one's goes that route the BBB would be to buy a passive subwoofer (why pay for an amp you are NOT using???). Also, with such low power rating as thw PSW10 amp, it isn't surprising you would get better results when playing music since many AVRs O/P can often/easily surpass the performance that the PSW10 amp can offer (in fact, your specific amp model would probably provide you about 20 WRMS more than the sub amp., others would even provide greater difference/gain).

Now, MB is using a PSW111 subwoofer which has triple the power rating of the PSW10 and also has the LFE capability. In his specific situation, it would definitely be to his advantage to use the LFE connection, while using the subwoofer amp, the power that isn't taken from the AVR for this task is then kept/shared between the remainder of the un-powered speakers.

Jimbo, I'm glad the SB new set-up has improved the SS for you :cool: