using TSi300 as rear speakers and some queries about receivers

dfledezma

Hi everyone.

I´m new to the forum, and also new to the audio world. I always wanted to build my own audio system and now that I´m able to I have some questions.

1. I want to start with a stereo system but using a multichannel AVR, because music is my prime. That means I will start with the AVR and a couple of loudspeakers, and later adding more components. I'm thinking in a pair of TSi300. My question is, has anyone used any of these as surround speakers? I'm asking this because if I add more loudspeakers later, I want to get something bigger, like a pair of TS1 400 or 500, and then using the former as surround. Normally I see bookshelf speakers as surrounds.

2. Now the AVR. I was thinking in a denon AVR1610. What do you think? The manual states that if I use front loudspeakers A and B (I think this means multizone) simultaneously the impedance should be between 12 and 16 ohms. The loudspeakers I want to use are 8 ohms so I think I will be unabke to use this feature. Should I go for AVR590 then? I've read they are exactly the same but the later only has one zone capability.

Many thanks in advance

kawizx9r

Welcome to Club Polk! If youre going to use it primarily for music, I'm wondering why you're planning on investing in what would seem like an HT setup (surrounds/etc unless you like 4-channel listening?). Anyway most surrounds are bookshelves because not many soundtracks utilize the entire freq. range that a larger/tower speaker can reproduce, although when you do find such soundtrack and you have the "towers" or exceptional bookshelves as surrounds, it sounds awesome. Another reason why you see bookshelves may just be the space factor, maybe people want to hang them on their walls or tuck them away somewhere, or another huge reason is the wife acception factor. As far as the AVR goes, I can't recommend anything new since I haven't upgraded my AVR for awhile but you should make sure that whatever you get, has pre amp outputs because the upgrade bug will ALWAYS bite and you'll like the option to add an external amp.

dfledezma

Thanks!

Yes I was thinking in the pre outs, and effectively that AVR has two so that can be used if needed.

About the use of the system, music is my primary interest, and I want to be able to use it as a 4 channel, as you said, but also want to add a bluray player later on and have multichannel sound for movies, and maybe videogames as well

apphd

dfledezma wrote: »

Thanks!

Yes I was thinking in the pre outs, and effectively that AVR has two so that can be used if needed.

About the use of the system, music is my primary interest, and I want to be able to use it as a 4 channel, as you said, but also want to add a bluray player later on and have multichannel sound for movies, and maybe videogames as well

dfled, welcome to CP. Can I suggest you get your read on and do some more reading so all your purchases accomplish what you want to do, which I am not certain what your end goal is.

Yes the 1610 you are looking at has two pre-outs, and a sub out. But those pre-outs are for surround back speakers and a sub. This is basically a 5 ch (5.1) AVR but with those 2 pre-outs you can add a 2 ch amp and get a 7.1 set up. You can not use a separate amp for the basic 5 ch (Front left- center - Front right - surround L and surround R. This will give you the 4 ch music, and 5.1 surround for movies though if that is what you want.

Most times what you would want is something with pre-outs for all 5/7 ch. The ones you would be most interested in running more power to (for movies) would be your front and center ch. as this is where most content is and let the AVR amp handle the surrounds.
I'm not into multi ch music too much, so I can't comment much there, but I would think you would want some decent speakers on all ch and good clean power to all of them in a pretty equal balance.
What you describe as starting with the TSi300 and upgrading those then moving them to surround duty is a route many take.

cnh

+1 on what apphd said.

And forget about 4 channel stereo...most receivers have an all channel stereo option. Denons do! Unfortunately you'll have to move up the Denon chain to get pre-outs. If you can still find a Denon AVR 2808/9 that would be your cheapest option. And they are pretty goo AVRs with all the features you would need. The new Denon is the AVR3310 and that is more expensive?

Other AVRs also good.

cnh

dfledezma

thanks again...

looks like I new less than I expected. Well, I´m new in this but still have time to research.

I never considered to add an external amp by using pre outs for the main channels, but now I´m interested. What would be the difference? I mean by only using the amplified outputs of the AVR or using another amp and pre outs. I know the power and hence the sound level will be higher, but does it really makes a big difference if I will be using the system in a rather small living room??

Do you have suggestions on any other entry level eceivers with pre outs?

kawizx9r

Sound quality in itself is much better even at moderate volumes when using separates.

cnh

Receivers with pre-outs.

Pioneer VSX-1018 NOT the newer 19

And any Pioneer ELITE series

Harman Kardon AVR 254

Onkyo TX-SR706

Yammah RXV-663/5

Listen to a few see what 'you' like?

Power amps.....Adcom, Carver, Rotel, B&K, Parasound, Cambridge Audio, Outlaw...and the beat goes one.....some like Emotiva (direct). Get a 200 watt/channel when and if you make that upgrade.

All of the above is standard fare here. We should probably have a 'sticky' for this on this site. Or DO WE???

cnh

wutadumsn23

cnh wrote: »

All of the above is standard fare here. We should probably have a 'sticky' for this on this site. Or DO WE???

cnh

That is not a bad idea man, lol. I agree with the advice given so far, solid as usual. It sounds like you want the best of both worlds, and IMO the most important part to making that happen is your AVR choice. The models cnh has listed are all solid options w/ pre-outs and it seems like they will be a must for what it is you are looking for in the end. You may have to spend a little more than you wanted to on your AVR, but like I said, in the long run it will be to your benifit to spend the extra cash on it now. Then save up for the speakers you "really" want, lol. Welcome to Club Polk.

-Jeff

apphd

dfledezma wrote: »

thanks again...

looks like I new less than I expected. Well, I´m new in this but still have time to research.

I never considered to add an external amp by using pre outs for the main channels, but now I´m interested. What would be the difference? I mean by only using the amplified outputs of the AVR or using another amp and pre outs. I know the power and hence the sound level will be higher, but does it really makes a big difference if I will be using the system in a rather small living room??

Do you have suggestions on any other entry level eceivers with pre outs?

Most entry level AVRs are somewhat weak in the amp section. With easy to drive 8 ohm speakers in a small room they may cut it for some. Power is your friend, and an old rule of thumb is buy as much power as you can afford. Good clean power with plenty in reserve allows for those short burst of demands that some times are called for in music and movies, especially when listening at higher levels. Then there are future changes, you move to a bigger room, you find a great deal on better speakers but they are harder to drive, or 4 ohm and you have to pass or that great deal ends up costing you more because you then need to upgrade for more power, or damage your new speakers or AVR.

There are many directions you can go. Decide what features you must have in the AVR, then if what you need is not the latest and greatest (HDMI, high res audio decoding, video up converting etc) if you do not NEED all the latest then shop for used.
Then decide if you want your power in a separate amp or in the AVR. There are many AVRs out there with good power just not (in most cases) equal to a separate amp. Of course this comes at a cost, a good upper tier AVR from any of the names you are familiar with may have all the power you will ever want, but then new features/technology comes along that you want. Then you need to upgrade for the features, and amp/power together.
Amp technology moves much slower than the pre-pro side, a good amp can stay with you for a long time. That is why many go with an entry level AVR (with pre-outs) to use as a pre-pro with an amp. Then they only need $400 - $600 to get a new entry level AVR for features and keep their amp. Instead of $1500 - $2000+ to upgrade to a new upper tier (flagship) model AVR.

The better amp section is not the only thing you are paying for with those upper level AVRs. You do get more features and most times better SQ (sound quality) as well. That is why there are those that get the more expensive AVRs and still add an external amp.

Spend some time here and you will start asking yourself more questions of what you want, and also be able to answer many of those questions as well. The first big decision you need to make is what amount of money you are willing to part with. Then see if that amount can give you the end results you are looking for. It seldom is, that's where we all have to start with our compromises, which starts the never ending cycle of upgrading to "fix" those compromises. But if you start out with good AVR/amp selections you have the foundation in place to make good future decisions from.

dfledezma

wow, many thanks fro the suggestions and advices. Now I´m doing more research, to begin with, I´m reading the user manuals for the recommended AVRs. I feel tempted by the yamaha and the onkyo, but better give them a listen before

btw, my initial budget for avr and a pair of speaker is around a thousand dollars, leaving the possibility to add more speakers and an amplifier later

cnh

apphd wrote: »

Most entry level AVRs are somewhat weak in the amp section. With easy to drive 8 ohm speakers in a small room they may cut it for some. Power is your friend, and an old rule of thumb is buy as much power as you can afford. Good clean power with plenty in reserve allows for those short burst of demands that some times are called for in music and movies, especially when listening at higher levels. Then there are future changes, you move to a bigger room, you find a great deal on better speakers but they are harder to drive, or 4 ohm and you have to pass or that great deal ends up costing you more because you then need to upgrade for more power, or damage your new speakers or AVR.

There are many directions you can go. Decide what features you must have in the AVR, then if what you need is not the latest and greatest (HDMI, high res audio decoding, video up converting etc) if you do not NEED all the latest then shop for used.
Then decide if you want your power in a separate amp or in the AVR. There are many AVRs out there with good power just not (in most cases) equal to a separate amp. Of course this comes at a cost, a good upper tier AVR from any of the names you are familiar with may have all the power you will ever want, but then new features/technology comes along that you want. Then you need to upgrade for the features, and amp/power together.
Amp technology moves much slower than the pre-pro side, a good amp can stay with you for a long time. That is why many go with an entry level AVR (with pre-outs) to use as a pre-pro with an amp. Then they only need $400 - $600 to get a new entry level AVR for features and keep their amp. Instead of $1500 - $2000+ to upgrade to a new upper tier (flagship) model AVR.

The better amp section is not the only thing you are paying for with those upper level AVRs. You do get more features and most times better SQ (sound quality) as well. That is why there are those that get the more expensive AVRs and still add an external amp.

Spend some time here and you will start asking yourself more questions of what you want, and also be able to answer many of those questions as well. The first big decision you need to make is what amount of money you are willing to part with. Then see if that amount can give you the end results you are looking for. It seldom is, that's where we all have to start with our compromises, which starts the never ending cycle of upgrading to "fix" those compromises. But if you start out with good AVR/amp selections you have the foundation in place to make good future decisions from.

Great overview and advice but on a 1000 dollar budget and for a newb....maybe a bit too much info.

I agree with the AVR suggestion. Upgraded from an Onkyo 605 to an 805 for those reasons a while back....didn't care about the VIDEO stuff just wanted the 50+ pound Monster with its much LARGER EL transformer and caps, higher current capabilities (60 amp dynamic current peak)--more authoritative power and better imaging and sound stage and Burr Brown DACs, etc. (hardly that different from the 1600 dollar TX-SR875MSRP--for audio)..but my Adcom is still better with the AVR as a pre- in 2 channel.

For now an entry level AVR will do you dfledezma. Baby steps.

cnh

apphd

cnh wrote: »

Great overview and advice but on a 1000 dollar budget and for a newb....maybe a bit too much info.

I agree with the AVR suggestion. Upgraded from an Onkyo 605 to an 805 for those reasons a while back....didn't care about the VIDEO stuff just wanted the 50+ pound Monster with its much LARGER EL transformer and caps, higher current capabilities (60 amp dynamic current peak)--more authoritative power and better imaging and sound stage and Burr Brown DACs, etc. (hardly that different from the 1600 dollar TX-SR875MSRP--for audio)..but my Adcom is still better with the AVR as a pre- in 2 channel.

For now an entry level AVR will do you dfledezma. Baby steps.

cnh

Yeh I knew I was getting long winded, but I was on a roll:D

OP now that you gave us a budgit check these links out

NeweggOnk706$600

NeweggPolkMon60$280pair

PioneerVSX03$590

PolkDirectA5s$380pair

Yamaha663$300

Couldn't find any Pioneer 1018s (another good option) but some suggestions on how to spend your $1K and have a nice start AVR and 2 speakers that you can build from.