Just Brought home my first Turntable

Paden501

I know it's nothing too special, but my grandmother-in-law just gave me her old BSR McDonald 2260AG turntable yesterday. It doesn't look like it's the most high-end table ever made (the base is cheap plastic) but it sounds pretty good for something that's sat in a basement for the last 10 years.

I've never had any vinyl before so it's a pretty new experience for me. So far, I've picked up a few records at the 1/2 priced bookstore (some Bad Co, Boston, a Sinatra album, etc) and I'm listening away.

One question that's come up so far: Would it do me any good to get a different cartridge? It has a QLM 30 MkIII currently. I was looking into an Audio-Technica AT440MLa, but I really don't know enough about turntables to know how of a difference it'll make.

thsmith

If the cart is as old as the table then yes replace it. If it sounds good now it will sound even better with a decent new cart.

Congrats for getting into vinyl. There are several DIY record cleaning links out there. I buy most my LPs from half priced books.

hearingimpared

A new cartridge will bring that turntable to real life!

hearingimpared

Great links Mike.

jimmydep

Thanks to the help of Hearingimpared and Keiko I purchased the Shure M97 from Amazon at a great price. I have to tell you the sound is much better than my 30yr old Stanton. While I only have about 10 hours on the cartridge now, it seems to be getting better every time I listen to it.

I've noticed an increase in the lower end and the midrange is much clearer than my old Stanton, but it's slightly lacking in the high range (could be it needs more break-in time. Also I hear alittle more surface noise (I think I have to clean my records better).

I think for an older lower end turntable this would have to be at the top of your list..

Thanks again to Mike & Joe your advice has been spot on...

Jimmy

hearingimpared

Give the cantilever suspension about 35 hours to loosin up or break in and I think your highs will sparkle.

AudioGenics

might want to check your tracking force. cartridge location, and alignment
although there may not be much available adjustment on the BSR.

also isolation pads and a solid material (granite/ marble/composite) can
provide an improved operating platform.

upgrade the RCA connectors is another option.

all fun things to do.

I find it ironic that you mention it was your Grandmothers'
make me feel that the world belongs to the younger generation now.....

thsmith

I like the Shure better with the brush instead of down. Be sure to align the cart.

If you decide to DIY record cleaning solution I have plenty of surfactant Triton X-114 if you need some.

mhardy6647

There were BSRs and there were BSRs, but virtually none of the BSR record players were really very sophisticated nor particularly good performing. Some of them (the ubiquitous changers with ceramic cartridge from mid 1970s 'all in one' hifis) were pretty terrible. Most of them (at least the BSRs I recall) wouldn't be a good match for the high-compliance M97xe, I reckon.

I am not familiar with the BSR model numbers. I'd suggest perusing mid-1970s catalog entries at www.radioshackcatalogs.com and see if you can find a lookalike. In those days, many of the less expensive Radio Shack record players (mostly changers) were BSR OEM.

For example, see pages 30 and 31 at http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1977/
The top two changers on p. 30 are Miracords, most of the rest (with the possible execption of the truly nasty "compact system changer" on the bottom of p. 30) are BSR OEM (EDIT: as is the bottom player on p. 32).

EDIT^2: aha!

hearingimpared

jimmydep wrote: »

Thanks to the help of Hearingimpared and Keiko I purchased the Shure M97 from Amazon at a great price. I have to tell you the sound is much better than my 30yr old Stanton. While I only have about 10 hours on the cartridge now, it seems to be getting better every time I listen to it.

I've noticed an increase in the lower end and the midrange is much clearer than my old Stanton, but it's slightly lacking in the high range (could be it needs more break-in time. Also I hear alittle more surface noise (I think I have to clean my records better).
I think for an older lower end turntable this would have to be at the top of your list..

Thanks again to Mike & Joe your advice has been spot on...

Jimmy

You may also be experiencing a little more surface "sound" due to the fact that the Shure probably has a higher output voltage than the Stanton. See if you can lower the gain in you preamp if it has that feature.

mhardy6647

I was probably too rough on this record player in my previous post :-(
It's clear that the OP is enjoying it... which is all that counts!

EFanning

Also, it may be wise to hold off on more investments in your BSR turntable.

Here's the supporting logic: If you enjoy LPs, you'll end up buying a newer turntable within five years. Instead of tweaking, save your cash and upgrade to a newer turntable down the road.

I added a new cartridge to a free Philips GA312. It sounds fine. I play records. But, I can easily imagine how a number of tweaks might help. Then I add up the cost of the tweaks and the time investment and I think, I'll just buy a nicer turntable on Audiogon someday and skip all that effort.

jimmydep

Keiko wrote: »

Jimmy, ScompRacer turned me onto this link for cleaning records. It's cheap and very effective. I use an all natural soap and a spot of 91% alcohol solution mixed with purified water in a spray bottle. I have a rather expensive water purifier on my tap. You should be able to get away with one of these Brita filters. They're relatively inexpensive. I also use a Euro Pro Shark Steam in my vinyl cleaning ritual.

http://www.gallagher.com/clean_records.htm

http://www.brita.com/us/products/faucet-filtration/basic/

http://www.amazon.com/Euro-Pro-SC710L-Steamer-Handheld-Hard-Surface/dp/B0024QBQZG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1247575738&sr=8-7

Also, for label savers I bought a pair of these from Napa auto parts. Cheap and they work perfectly. 4.99 each.

http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=BK&PartNumber=5751107&Description=Suction+Cup

It's a bit of a PITA, but this stuff works well until I get a VPI RCM.

I was geared up to buy one until one of our TV's went out. Had to pick up another set for my mother-in-law. Hopefully in another month or so I can commit again. Gotta keep momma happy.

Dude you are just too funny with all your links!!! How can you not love this guy.......anyway, I do have obscenely filtered water going thru no less than 9 different filters (I am a plumber you know) so water quality is no problem.

How much alcohol would you add to a cup of soap solution?

I have a NAPA Auto parts 3 minuets from me so I'll check out the suction cups.

I have cleaned a few records using the method in the link with pretty good results, I guess I'll try doing it with the steamer also.


Thanks

Jimmy

jimmydep

hearingimpared wrote: »

You may also be experiencing a little more surface "sound" due to the fact that the Shure probably has a higher output voltage than the Stanton. See if you can lower the gain in you preamp if it has that feature.

My phono pre-amp does have a gain control which I've been messing with, but I still think it sounds best about 95% of full gain......it seems like I have to really turn the volume knob up if I keep it any lower.


Thanks Joe,



Jimmy

danz1906

Congrats!

jimmydep

Keiko wrote: »

1-3 ratio.

That's a good amount, I didn't add nearly enough last time I did it.

Thanks Bro.

Jimmy

Paden501

Thanks all for the advice. I apologize that I've stepped away from this thread all day yesterday and now I'm way behind on my responses.

@Keiko - Thanks for the review on the AT. I'm going to look into the Shure also before I make a decision.

@JVC - There isn't a whole lot of adjustment on this lower-end table. I can adjust the tracking force from 1-6g and there's some adjustment on the arm height.
You mentioned RCA connectors... the connectors on the table are attached to the bottom of the table assembly and look to be clipped in. I did replace the cheap old interconnect cable that came with it to a monster cable I had laying around.

@mhardy - Yep. That's the table. And your review of it is pretty spot-on. It's definately a lower-end table and I wouldn't ever argue w/ that. I guess that where my question comes from is what can I do to liven this guy up w/o incurring a ton of cost? My understanding is that if I get a cart for it, I can just take the cart to any new table I get in the future also? (they're universal to some extent??)

Beyond that I don't know what else I can do.

Thanks all!

Paden501

I decided to give the Shure M97xe cartridge. I ordered it from Beach Audio today. Hopefully it arrives either Friday or early next week. I'll be sure to provide a review after i break it in.

Paden501

Ok my shure cart arrived today and so far I've had nothing but trouble.

First, the cleaning kit that I ordered didn't show up so I get to call Beach Audio about that tomorrow morning.

Next, while I was taking the old cartridge off of the tonearm, I pulled the lead off of the left channel ground wire. So I'll either be replacing all the wires (they are old) or buying a soldering iron tomorrow morning (I do need one anyway).

My next disaster happened once I put the cart on the tone arm. My goal was to balance the arm, but I quickly realized that the arm didn't have a good counterweight system at all. The Shure cart. calls for 1.25-1.75g but the arm only has a 2g setting. Beyond that, the balance setting wasn't working at all.
Sooooo I decided to fixt the problem by stacking quarters behind the pivot to get the balance right. 5 quarters ended up working out for me.

So after all that, hopefully I can finally get to setting the calibration tomorrow and maybe listening to the new cart once I get the wires fixed.

.....long day.

jimmydep

BTW, look under all the foam packing there is a cardboard cartridge alignment protractor, they make no mention of this in the instruction sheet.

Jimmy

Paden501

Jimmy you just made my day!

This entire process has been really frustrating though... not because it's inheritly frustrating so much as because I feel like this table lacks adjustment features. I'm starting to feel like this table's only going to last long enough for me to find a nicer one used on craigslist.

Fongolio

Paden501 wrote: »

Jimmy you just made my day!

This entire process has been really frustrating though... not because it's inheritly frustrating so much as because I feel like this table lacks adjustment features. I'm starting to feel like this table's only going to last long enough for me to find a nicer one used on craigslist.

And it begins......

Fongolio

I'm sorry I couldn't resist. Been there done that. Anyway. The counterweight scale on any table needs to be set to zero when the arm floats (not up not down on the record). Find the adjust for the counterweight (different then the one that moves the scale). When the arm floats freely set the scale to zero. You may have to go back and forth until this is achieved. Once the arm floats freely and the scale is set to zero you can now dial up the scale to get your desired tracking force. All this must be done after you have properly aligned the cartridge. If you could find a manual you'd be laughing. I've broken a few cartridge leads myself. Your first table can be frustrating but the eventual rewards are worth it. Good luck.

Fongolio

Edit to my above post. First set the scale using the screw to zero then turn the counterweight screw and move the weight up or down the arm until the arm floats (balances in air). The turn the scale screw until you have the desired tracking force on the scale. The set the anti skating screw to the same (aprox) as the track force. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Paden501

Yeah see this is where my trouble begins. The table has neither a useful tracking force scale (2-8g only) nor an anti skate scale (none whatsoever).

AudioGenics

you may also want to check the downward angle alignment
using shims for additional adjustments

Paden501

Thanks for all the advice Fongolio and JVC. Looks like I need to spend some more time at this.

mhardy6647

You should get a stylus pressure gauge. Shure has a simple inexpensive one that works fine. Alternatively, you can buy yourself a "dope scale" :-) on eBay or elsewhere inexpensively (I actually got mine from www.uptontea.com each to his own dope!) or you can pay three to five times as much for essentially the same electronic scale sold specifically as a stylus gauge.

The Upton Tea scale: http://www.uptontea.com/shopcart/item.asp?from=catalog.asp&itemID=AR44&begin=0&parent=Accessories%3ETeaware%3EInfusion+Aids&category=Scales&sortMethod=0&categoryID=188

A purpose-built stylus pressure gauge:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=41782

The trusty Shure balance:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuresfg2_e.html

EDIT: free advice (and worth every penny), with an arm like the one you have, track the Shure at the high end of the recommended VTF range; are you using the stabilizer brush?

jimmydep

Matt

Take a look at this site, it has some good information on setting up your cartridge, it even has downloadable cartridge protractors.

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml


I've found a good magnifying glass helps with the alignment....but I'm old and my eyes suck..

Take your time

Jimmy

Fongolio

mhardy6647 wrote: »

You should get a stylus pressure gauge. Shure has a simple inexpensive one that works fine.

I use the Shure and it does work just fine. After a while your ears will tell you what tracking force to use and a scale is just a starting point.

2 to 8 grams !!! Sheesh. Then quarters it is. I'd secure them on with tape or something. I'm not Chris Angel or anything but I predict an upgrade in your near future. Good luck.

Kelvin

Paden501

Yeah your prediction was prettymuch dead on. I found a Pioneer PL-516 on craigslist for like $50 so I picked it up. It needs a good cleaning and the pitch knob really needs some contact cleaner. Other than that it's in pretty good shape, and the tonearm has a nice counterbalance adjustment, which is a major step forward.

Here's a photo from the web that's basically the table I picked up (different head on my tonearm)

http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/87/126.html