To Bi-wire or to not bi wi yadayadayada

underdawg

Hey. First time here. Please be gentle. I finally decided to go ahead and jump into the 21st century and spring for some 7.1 gear. I got a Sony SVR DG1000 amp on ebay fer 3 bills and a pair of Monitor 50 from newegg fer like 180 bucks, found a CS2 Center for cheap, and then I ran across a pair of Monitor 60's and bought them too. ( 260 for the pair ) 60's are up front a course, wif the CS2, the 50's are now rear surrounds with a pair of Yammy NS 6390's set to do bidnis as surround backs.

(I know. The 50's would be better surround backs but they don't fit there.)

Yep. I'm just kinda wingin it.

Here's the thing. I could bi-wire if I wanted to give up my 7.1 status, which I'm pretty freakin proud of at the moment, by using my surround back terminals..

Before I bought the 60's I tried the 50's both bi-wired and.. mono-wired, and I did hear a difference. Not much to my ear, but there was a difference.

I'd like to hear what you Polk guys think. When I wanna just listen to some music with my new setup here, how much of the good stuff am I gonna miss out on , cuz I ain't bi-wired.

I guess I should mention, sometime this Winter I'll be bi-amping. I have a pair of 15 inch Tru-Sonics that I'm gonna add into the mix..

Any thought would be welcome. I need all the hep I can get.

Underdawg

Ern Dog

Welcome and congrats on the Monitor speakers. I started with Monitor 70's and loved em.

Your Bi-wire question is a mixed bag. Some swear it's better to bi-wire and others say it doesn't matter. So my advice to you is that since you hear an improvement when you bi-wire to stick with that. The only thing that really matters is what sounds better to your ears.

gmb2428

I have a pair of rti150's, I bi-amped them so my yamaha rxv1900 was powering just the mids and highs. Then had an onkyo amp powering the 3 subs. Listened for a few days, then unhooked everything and just run the onkyo to power the full rti150 setup. I hear not one bit of difference at all!

underdawg

yea ok fellers. Thanks for the input. There's a lot of options with this receicer I just bought. I think one of em is gonna be just about perfect, but it's gonna take a lot of trial and error. At this point I'm thinking that the 7 channel thing is gonna lose some of it's appeal after we readjust it 30 or 40 times, and then I'll just move those speakers to another room. Seems like it might wind up being more hassle than it's worth. According to the manual, I could use the Surround Back terminals to bi-amp my M60's which would proly have a much better result than just bi-wiring them. I dunno. Gonna make a great Winter project, trying out all of these options. I have one more question for now tho.
These are the first brand new speakers I've bought in 30 years. How long of a break in period should I expect if I play them for say 8 hours a day? Seems to me the M60's sounded pretty great after the first eight. Best thing I ever had in my living room. Thanks again for the input.

Underdawg

comfortablycurt

Personally, I wouldn't waste my time with bi-wiring. The "bi-amp" feature on most AVR's is essentially useless IMO.

For starters, you aren't actually pushing the speakers with any extra power. In most AVR's, the power for every channel comes from one common power block. Given that, the receiver isn't going to put out twice the amount of power because a given speaker is hooked up to multiple pairs of outputs.

A more accurate term for an AVR's bi-amping ability, would just be bi-wiring. It separates the signal to the tweeter/mids and the woofers. In theory this creates a cleaner signal.

In my experience, it doesn't make any improvements. I tried bi-amping/bi-wiring my RTi8's with my Onkyo 606, and I found there to be absolutely no improvements. If anything, the mid-range around the crossover point seemed to be a little bit drier and more withdrawn. That's definitely not an improvement.

If you've got the extra wire laying around...give it a shot, but don't expect to be absolutely blown away. I think you'd get more of an improvement by just going with a 7.1 setup myself.

JimKellyfan

I have just bought a set of Monitor 60's and a PSW10 sub to hook to my Pioneer VSX-406 5.1. But I use that for music only. The dining room houses the A channel front channel Monitors and the sub. The back enclosed porch is hooked to the B speakers via a Radio Shack switch. Then the wires find themselves in mediocrity with my old Advent satellites and fake sub hooked to switch b ( Radio Shack switch has a,b,c,d ) the a wires hooked to a 50 dollar set of Sony's from Best Buy ( floor model bookshelf ), and outside rock speakers also from Best Buy, hooked to c. The receiver pushes 80W ( A ) front each side, 80W rear ( B ), then center 80W and rear 80W and a sub out, to which I have a Y hooked to a monster cable. The speaker cables front are 14 gauge flat Radio Shacks, and I did make one shorter than the other by about 10 feet. It sounds incredible with the new Polk's. So much so, that I now dislike the remaining speakers. Also to my dismay, I now cannot power both A and B as I tried it, and the Polk's lose their highs and become muffled. I tried this briefly and only at low volume. I made a rule for now with the wife to have either A or B but not both. ( I used to be able to do this, but power requirements were much lower as my Advents took less ). The Polk's sound incredible, but believe I can get more out of them in a few manners. I have considered a few options, but am curious which route to take. Bi-amp and lose B altogether on the porch and outside ? Too, if I bi-amp, I don't believe tone can be adjusted on this stereo, but the level can be adjusted for the center. Then, I do have a Sony 5.1 in the living room I can switch to, that was part of a system the HT-DDW665. This receiver can have levels adjusted, but for tones, I believe only the fronts can be adjusted. So, my question here would be, does bi amping require tones and levels to be adjusted so as to send the correct frequencies when bi-amping ? Or can you just hook speaker A to lows and speaker B to highs ? Too, would I be safe to assume that I could not supply 80W shared to highs and 80W each to lows or vice versa ? The Sony pushes 85W/channel front, and surround 85W/channel with 85W center, but has a wired sub ( not RCA )...But, that is measured using the supplied 6 ohm Sony speakers and would be reduced to 67W/channel with hooking to the 8 ohm Polk's ?.....Little lost at what to do next, I guess. I do have to remove my Advents from the porch, that's a given...I will eventually get Atrium to replace the rock speakers and the wall Polk's RC85i's for the back porch ( 10 x 20 room ).....Last question....Do I need to replace either of these receivers, and to which low cost option can I go to now ??? Thank you all for any help, and let me apologize if I have been to lengthy in description or not long enough....signed, Polk buyer for life, now....

speakergeek

I would not waste any time bi-wiring. If you get some mono block amps (one for each binding post) and do a true bi-amping (or even some speakers can be tri-amped) then you will probably notice a difference. In some cases bi wiring may even be detrimental to the sound quality. But running off of an AVR it will not give you any benefit over just running a single standard speaker connection.

AudioGenics

seems to me that bi-wire is just a parallel circuit.

JimKellyfan

Thanx

conceyted

From what I have read, the gains will be very minimal.

VXR8

Depends on the speakers - there is a noticeble difference just bi-wiring my LSi-9s (not bi-amping). Horses for courses I suppose.

danz1906

Bi-wire should open up your speakers some,try it and see if you like it.

underdawg

ok. Thanks fer the input. Interesting comments. I've gone both ways now, and for my money, while there is a slight improvement with a bi-wired set up, it ain't worth giving up my 7.1 status just yet. Mebe 60 or 80 movies from now, I'll think about it again.

danz1906

underdawg wrote: »

ok. Thanks fer the input. Interesting comments. I've gone both ways now, and for my money, while there is a slight improvement with a bi-wired set up, it ain't worth giving up my 7.1 status just yet. Mebe 60 or 80 movies from now, I'll think about it again.

Welcome to the Club!
Sometimes bi-wire makes a Difference and sometimes it doesnt.

Bernal

underdawg wrote: »

Hey. First time here. Please be gentle. I finally decided to go ahead and jump into the 21st century and spring for some 7.1 gear. I got a Sony SVR DG1000 amp on ebay fer 3 bills and a pair of Monitor 50 from newegg fer like 180 bucks, found a CS2 Center for cheap, and then I ran across a pair of Monitor 60's and bought them too. ( 260 for the pair ) 60's are up front a course, wif the CS2, the 50's are now rear surrounds with a pair of Yammy NS 6390's set to do bidnis as surround backs.

(I know. The 50's would be better surround backs but they don't fit there.)

Yep. I'm just kinda wingin it.

Here's the thing. I could bi-wire if I wanted to give up my 7.1 status, which I'm pretty freakin proud of at the moment, by using my surround back terminals..

Before I bought the 60's I tried the 50's both bi-wired and.. mono-wired, and I did hear a difference. Not much to my ear, but there was a difference.

I'd like to hear what you Polk guys think. When I wanna just listen to some music with my new setup here, how much of the good stuff am I gonna miss out on , cuz I ain't bi-wired.

I guess I should mention, sometime this Winter I'll be bi-amping. I have a pair of 15 inch Tru-Sonics that I'm gonna add into the mix..

Any thought would be welcome. I need all the hep I can get.

Underdawg

Hi,
In music: LSI is to hear angels sing.
The best advice is to maintain balance and do not mix.
4 Ohms is good. Bi-Wiring: LSI at best..:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

---

01) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
02) SUNFIRE Grand Signature - Bob Carver's
03) OPPO DV-980H 1080p Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio
04) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport (change for a OPPO BDP-83 Blu-ray Disc Player will be available soon)
05) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
06) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
07) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
08) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
09) POLKAUDIO LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
10) POLKAUDIO LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
11) VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)

uncmike

Are you running all of the lsi speakers just from the denon 4308? have you had any problems with that set up? thanks!

Bernal

uncmike wrote: »

Are you running all of the lsi speakers just from the denon 4308? have you had any problems with that set up? thanks!

I am using the pre-out (Denon 4308Ci)
I am using all the speakers with the amplifier Sunfire. I have not had any problems.
Br

PS: The Denon does not handle 4 Ohms and LSi are 4 Ω; to a minimum of 300 watts per channel.

Willow

The only thing I noticed when I did was more speaker cable!
I noticed a bigger improvement when I bought AQ Indigo cables

Bernal

Willow wrote: »

The only thing I noticed when I did was more speaker cable!
I noticed a bigger improvement when I bought AQ Indigo cables

The important thing is the speaker cable.
It is important to specify: Oxygen Free HD Speaker Cables

Willow

Bernal wrote: »

The important thing is the speaker cable.
It is important to specify: Oxygen Free HD Speaker Cables

HD speaker cable? :rolleyes:

Willow

I forgot to mention I had them bi-wired with Kimber 4pr so not cheap cables but not fantastic either

Bernal

Willow wrote: »

I forgot to mention I had them bi-wired with Kimber 4pr so not cheap cables but not fantastic either

The cable Kimber 4PR not be specified: "Oxygen Free": (Specifications for C10100 OFE, C11000 ETP and C10200 OF. Oxygen-Free will have enhanced conductivity or other electrical properties that are significantly advantageous to low frequency (audio) signal transmission ).

http://www.kimber.com/Products/LoudSpeakerCables/4PR/4PR_Spec.aspx

In any case what matters is how they hear. On the subject there is great debate. In my case works as a great improvement in the sonic.;)