Reviving my old turntable

Flash21

I have an old turntable, a Denon DP-15F that I bought new in the, um, early to mid '80s I suppose. It has had basically no use the last decade or more. I am thinking of reviving it. I don't have a lot of records left, maybe 50 at most, so I don't want to make this a large investment.

So I am curious what you all think if this turntable. Denon is a pretty respectable name...this is an automatic turntable with the "Dynamic Servo Tracer" tonearm I think it is called. It has an Ortofon high output moving coil cartridge (BTW does a cartridge "age" as it sits, or will it still work?).

One of the reasons for these dumb questions is I don't have a phono stage on my integrated, otherwise I would just try it and see. So, I am thinking of getting a Cambridge Audio 540P phono amp, which seems like an adequate unit for the quality of the turntable. Thoughts?

Man, I have been out of the TT game for so long, I feel like a rookie again.

thsmith

Steve, no expert here but your TT with right cart and Phono stage should sound great.

I do believe carts over time degrade even if not used, not sure though.

I have the CA 640P and love it, no experience with 540P.

Flash21

Actually I should have said "540P or maybe the 640P", given what HiFi Choice has to say:

The 640P is a more refined beast. It adds dynamics and weight as well as improved image precision to the 540P’s sound. We particularly enjoyed the fact that voices and instruments became palpably more lifelike and real in the room, thanks to the greater level of resolution it brings to the party. Everything from the bass up is more articulate and as a result, the music is more engaging. It’s well worth the extra £20, if you can stretch to it.

I suppose I should just spring for the additional $80 if I do this.

hearingimpared

Be careful using an almost 30 year old cartridge. The cantilever suspension tends to dry rot. I would try it on a record that you don't care about first. If it is bad the stylus and cantilever will most like just fall out of the cartridge.

jimmydep

You could try this preamp if your on a tight budget:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160292784921

I'm using the 750 model because I have an MM cartridge and it works pretty good with my 33yr old Sony.

Jimmy

Flash21

hearingimpared wrote: »

Be careful using an almost 30 year old cartridge. The cantilever suspension tends to dry rot. I would try it on a record that you don't care about first. If it is bad the stylus and cantilever will most like just fall out of the cartridge.

The cartridge is not as old as the turntable, but is still over 20 years old I am sure, so I take your point.

thsmith

SHure 97xe for about $50 and Denon DL-160 for about $130.

I have tried both and prefer the Denon but the Shure for the money sounded very good.

Flash21

Last week I bought a used Pro-Ject Mk II phono preamp and hooked 'er up. Even though it has been at least 5 years since it was used at all, the Denon worked perfectly. I now have vinyl again...sounded pretty good too, especially after breaking it in for a couple of albums.

I do wish I could put some better interconnects on this turntable, it has thin little captive cords. I guess I could solder in some new ones if I get ambitious.

I also have to decide if I want to buy vinyl again...got rid of most of it years ago. Still, it's nice to have it working again.

Flash21

I looked up my cartridge on the interweb...it is an Ortofon X3-MC, which somewhat to my surprise they were making as late as 2006 (although I know some designs have been made for decades...). It sold for $275 at the end, although I know durn well I didn't pay that much.

So anyway, as long as it is working properly it is a pretty good cartridge I think , so I'll probably stick with it for now.

hearingimpared

Just to be sure use it first on a record you don't care about.

Flash21

Already tried it, both the turntable and cartridge worked fine.

TECHNOKID

Flash21 wrote: »

The cartridge is not as old as the turntable, but is still over 20 years old I am sure, so I take your point.

Personally I think you should replace the cartridge/stylus anyway. You should also replace your belt if it is belt drive as it will slip and is more likely dried out. You should go through all the gears, clean them up and put new grease ( a small tube of white silicon greese should do the trick). You can easily get new belt and grease from your local electronic component supplier. If you want to go a little further you could also replace the microswitch (I bet the contacts would be pretty sticky).

Cheers!
TK

hearingimpared

Flash21 wrote: »

Already tried it, both the turntable and cartridge worked fine.

That's great to hear. Enjoy!

hearingimpared

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Personally I think you should replace the cartridge/stylus anyway. You should also replace your belt if it is belt drive as it will slip and is more likely dried out. You should go through all the gears, clean them up and put new grease ( a small tube of white silicon greese should do the trick). You can easily get new belt and grease from your local electronic component supplier. If you want to go a little further you could also replace the microswitch (I bet the contacts would be pretty sticky).

Cheers!
TK

Be careful with the silcone as it has a tendancy to migrate.

TECHNOKID

hearingimpared wrote: »

Be careful with the silcone as it has a tendancy to migrate.

Good point:

In my experience fully cured silicone will not migrate, however if the silicone is not fully cross linked and there is a carrier for silicone (oil/ fluid), and it is under a high enough temp and pressure, then the silicone may be able to migrate. From the sound of your note it sounds like you have two different compounds in close proximity to each other. Why do you thinck the silicone is migrating? As far as outgassing goes, it is dependant on the formulation and the amount of volitiles as well as other components in the silicone. Again state of cure will play a part, as well as temp and pressure of application. There are definitely some differences in the manufacturing of silicone which can effect outgassing.

The silicon white grease I am talking about is specially made for electronic gear and should not create any problems. This is what I was using to do maintenance on VCRs and all others such as CD/DVD players and tape decks back then. One has to make sure to get the right product otherwise it sure can be a mess (degrade instead of improving).

Cheers!
TK

Flash21

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Personally I think you should replace the cartridge/stylus anyway. You should also replace your belt if it is belt drive as it will slip and is more likely dried out. You should go through all the gears, clean them up and put new grease ( a small tube of white silicon greese should do the trick). You can easily get new belt and grease from your local electronic component supplier. If you want to go a little further you could also replace the microswitch (I bet the contacts would be pretty sticky).

Cheers!
TK

This is a direct drive unit...the "Dynamic Servo Tracer" tonearm possibly could use some sort of lube, although I don't think the manual calls for it, and it isn't externally obvious how to lube it. I tried all the microswitches (there are 6) and they seem to be working fine.

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/denon/dp-15f.shtml

Flash21

I found this description of the Dynamic Servo Tracer tonearm on the web, appears to be an automatic translation of some kind...left unedited for your amusement (well, it amused me anyway):

The dynamic servo tracer low-mass straight arm is carried in the tone arm. He avoids the influence of the super-low-pass abnormal-conditions noise which produces fo by the curvature of a record etc. by setting it as around 10Hz as a straight arm of a low-mass, and also is trying to become the outside of an audio frequency band.

Furthermore, Q is held down to ideal conditions by the dynamic servo tracer. This detects a very detailed motion (horizontal and vertical) of a tone arm with a detector coil, is a system which controls the current sent through a drive coil, controls the power in which an arm moves by fo point to the opposite direction of vibration of a needle by this, and is improving trace capability sharply.

What more do you need to know?:D

TomB

I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, BUT... I have a Denon DP31-L turntable. (Circa 1982; I'm the original owner.)

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/denon/dp-31l.shtml

Is there any maintenence/lubrication/etc. that I need to do on this table?

Unlike the OP's table, mine isn't fully automatic - just automatic arm-lift, at the end of the record - so I don't have as many gears, etc. to lube. It does have various pivot points, and (I assume) plastic or nylon bearings - can I carefully lube those with silicone grease?

Also, it it worth doing any upgrades to the table - new platter, mat, etc. -or would I be better off putting the dough into an entry level MMF, Rega or Pro-ject?

comfortablycurt

jimmydep wrote: »

You could try this preamp if your on a tight budget:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160292784921

I'm using the 750 model because I have an MM cartridge and it works pretty good with my 33yr old Sony.

Jimmy

I'm also using the TC-750...with my Yamaha P-300 turntable. Got it for real cheap, and I have no complaints about it. Even came with a free pair of Belden IC's.:)

Is there better out there? Definitely...but this is getting the job done for me for now. I don't want to invest too much money into the Dark Side yet...since my record collection is only about 20 deep right now. Once I get a bigger collection built up...the TT and the phono stage will be getting upgraded.

quadzilla

FYI, Ortofon says that a cartridge does not degrade when not in use.

hearingimpared

quadzilla wrote: »

FYI, Ortofon says that a cartridge does not degrade when not in use.

If the cantilever mount is made of rubber and I believe they all are, the mount tends to dry rot over long periods of time.

Fongolio

hearingimpared wrote: »

If the cantilever mount is made of rubber and I believe they all are, the mount tends to dry rot over long periods of time.

Or the opposite can happen with age, the rubber cantilever mount dries right out and goes hard and the cartridge becomes less complient.

Systems

quadzilla wrote: »

FYI, Ortofon says that a cartridge does not degrade when not in use.

****Wondering what the cantilever mount is made of that doesn't degrade over time?****

Flash21

Polyurethane?? Just guessing...