UltraZoom Camera recomendations

Systems

I'm looking for some input from any photo experts on Cameras in the $200-250 US range.My 12yr old daughter is very interested in photography as a hobby and wants to invest in a decent camera that will take good pics in a variety of settings but is not too complicated to use.She wants to step up to something better than a basic point and shoot,maybe an ultrazoom. Other than the basic's like megapixals,image stabilization,optical zoom etc. what important features should she be looking for?

Two possibilities so far are the Canon SX10iS
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=144&modelid=17480
and the Nikon L100
http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-Camera/26170/COOLPIX-L100.html



Thanks in advance.

McLoki

Image stabilization is a big one.

While I do not care much about the ability to make movies with my ultra-zoom, my daughter thinks it is the coolest thing ever. (make sure you can use the zoom in movie mode)

I have a panasonic TZ-1. While it is not awesome - it is easy to use, fairly reliable and does most of what I needed it to do. (ultra zoom that will fit in a coat pocket easily) I have had it for about 3 years now.

joeparaski

My daughter is also into cameras and is in her second year in Photography school. She also worked in a camera shop. Her recommendation....the Canon G10. Easy to use, affordable, and takes EXCELLENT pictures. Yes, we own one. If you have any questions, I'll be glad to pass them along to her.

Joe

jcaut

G10 is a great camera. Unless I'm thinking wrong though, it's out of the price range you quoted. It could be a little advanced for a 12year-old, but it just depends. At the price I think it sells for, it's getting up there close to Rebel SLR territory. If the girl is really serious and is reasonably careful with the equipment, you might look for a deal on some version of the Rebel, XTi, Xsi, etc. with the kit lens. No image stabilization (IMO largely a crutch that a beginner would do well to learn to do without), but capable of clean shots at much higher ISOs. Add the cheap but good 50mm f1.8 and you'd have a great starter rig that would really provide a solid platform from which to learn about photography. Plus better resale value if it doesn't work out... Still more than you wanted to spend.

I don't know. There are lots of different ways you could go and I think it really depends upon the individual. I've let my 11 yr. old son "have" my original Digital Rebel and he's learned a lot about exposure and metering, the concept of "stops", etc. He has gotten a few frame-worthy pictures, but the knowledge of the concepts is worth more and will eventually pay off if it's something he wants to stick with. And since it's "hands-on", I think he'll remember.

Systems

McLoki wrote: »

I have a panasonic TZ-1.

Looks like the ZS1 might be the new version,we'll add it to our list.

joeparaski wrote: »

..the Canon G10.

Thanks Joe,thats a nice camera but well outside her budget.

jcaut wrote: »

If the girl is really serious and is reasonably careful with the equipment, you might look for a deal on some version of the Rebel, XTi, Xsi, etc. with the kit lens.

Yeah we have looked at the Rebels online, she would love one and wants the interchangable lens option but I think it's too much camera for her to handle at this point even if she could afford it.The learning curve might be abit steep and she could get frustrated trying to figure it out,I not being in the know wouldn't be of much help.

BeRad

I got started on a Canon S5 IS. Very nice ultra zoom camera. The SX10 is the newer edition in Canons ultra zoom lineup and if it is anything like the S5, it will be a great camera. It offers full manual control, and there is a "hack" that lets you capture RAW with it. The hotshoe is also nice for a future strobe addon.

They have wide angle, and telezoom lenses that can further the ability of the lens as well.

Keep in mind though, that Ultrazooms aren't that great in low light situations. If the large zoom isn't a factor, I'd go with one of the Canon A series Power Shots. They also are great for starters and offer full manual control on the cheap.

edit: PowerShot A590 IS. It is a point-and-shoot but also offers full manual control. Great to learn on. My sister is currently enrolled in a multimedia course and this is the camera she is using for her projects for the photography course (when she isn't stealing my dslr that is.)

VSchneider

A true ultra-zoom may be a bit bulky. My Canon S3 IS (6MP, x12 zoom version of Canon SX10 IS you've looked at) is almost the same size, although lighter and includes a pretty powerful zoom, as the Nikon D60 dSLR with a small prime lens attached.

The "compact zoom" is a new hot category, and ZS-1 was reviewed very favorably in it's class. Check an comparison on DPReview
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/q209grouplongzoom/

Bright lens (small f-number) and some manual control are very nice to have.

I originally bought S3 IS for it's relatively good lens for a P&S and useful image stabilization, pretty key with long zoom, and still use it a lot despite also having an SLR.

SKsolutions

Don't know about the video zoom (18x opt, 4x dig), but if you are looking for something new in that range, the Lumix rocks: hell of a deal, Leica lens.
http://www.jr.com/panasonic/pe/PAN_DMCFZ28S/

66chevyIISS

IMO the specific camera type is irrelevant. There are a alot of brands and models out there that take good pictures. What is more important is learning what all the settings and how they effect the picture your taking I.E: Shutter speed, ISO, Apeture, etc.. You should look for a camera that will allow her to take pictures with manual settings so she can adjust them and learn the cause and effect from it.

I know a lot of people that can take better pictures with a P&S then people with a DLSR because they have the natual EYE and understand the settings of the camera. Learning the basics will go a long way in her future when it's time to actually upgrade to an SLR.

I am a Canon person so this is my extra cent on top of my 2 cents. If you can find a G8-G9 used cheap that might be the best way to go. The biggest improvement for that camera will be an external flash (example: speedlite 430). This is a flash that can be used on a Canon SLR in the future so its not wasted money. The two biggest improvements IMO on P&S vs SLR is External flash and time delay from when you press the shutter and the actual picture takes place. With an SLR there is no delay and a flash will make the biggest impact on any picture.

John30_30

VSchneider wrote: »

A true ultra-zoom may be a bit bulky. My Canon S3 IS (6MP, x12 zoom version of Canon SX10 IS you've looked at) is almost the same size, although lighter and includes a pretty powerful zoom, as the Nikon D60 dSLR with a small prime lens attached.

I originally bought S3 IS for it's relatively good lens for a P&S and useful image stabilization, pretty key with long zoom, and still use it a lot despite also having an SLR.

That's what I traded my RTA11T's for.:eek:
Thing's got more settings than Carter has pills.

Poee7R

SKsolutions wrote: »

Don't know about the video zoom (18x opt, 4x dig), but if you are looking for something new in that range, the Lumix rocks: hell of a deal, Leica lens.
http://www.jr.com/panasonic/pe/PAN_DMCFZ28S/

Let me +1 this here. I bought the FZ for my wife for her birthday as a "bridge" camera, before that all she was used to were P+S's. She loves it, hell even I love it with its IA mode (idiot mode :rolleyes:). You could take a picture of a fly's booty from 100 yards if thats your thing, or go nose to lens with a venomous reptile, of course... if thats your thing.

Takes great shots and has tons of options and features, if you would like Fred I can email you some to see what you think. And the pricing these days is a hell of alot better than it was last summer. My only recommendation would be to get one in black, as silver will show any marks/scuffs.


Dave

wz2p7j

66chevyIISS wrote: »

IMO the specific camera type is irrelevant. There are a alot of brands and models out there that take good pictures. What is more important is learning what all the settings and how they effect the picture your taking I.E: Shutter speed, ISO, Apeture, etc.. You should look for a camera that will allow her to take pictures with manual settings so she can adjust them and learn the cause and effect from it.

I know a lot of people that can take better pictures with a P&S then people with a DLSR because they have the natual EYE and understand the settings of the camera. Learning the basics will go a long way in her future when it's time to actually upgrade to an SLR.

I am a Canon person so this is my extra cent on top of my 2 cents. If you can find a G8-G9 used cheap that might be the best way to go. The biggest improvement for that camera will be an external flash (example: speedlite 430). This is a flash that can be used on a Canon SLR in the future so its not wasted money. The two biggest improvements IMO on P&S vs SLR is External flash and time delay from when you press the shutter and the actual picture takes place. With an SLR there is no delay and a flash will make the biggest impact on any picture.

Totally agree that a camera with manual and automatic settings might be desirable. If she really gets into this new hobby the next thing she is going to want is a camera with manual settings, so you could save some expense by getting one now.

I guess it does depend on how she views the hobby. Will she be doing landscapes and creative work or is the camera just to shoot some shots when she's together with friends?

Chris

Systems

BeRad wrote: »

Keep in mind though, that Ultrazooms aren't that great in low light situations.

VSchneider wrote: »

Bright lens (small f-number)

I assume these are related.Do Ultrazoom lenses typically have higher f numbers.?

SKsolutions wrote: »

Don't know about the video zoom (18x opt, 4x dig), but if you are looking for something new in that range, the Lumix rocks: hell of a deal, Leica lens.
http://www.jr.com/panasonic/pe/PAN_DMCFZ28S/

Whoa I like that one.The only concern I may have is the fact it uses a battery pack and not AA 's.

66chevyIISS wrote: »

What is more important is learning what all the settings and how they effect the picture your taking I.E: Shutter speed, ISO, Apeture, etc.. You should look for a camera that will allow her to take pictures with manual settings so she can adjust them and learn the cause and effect from it.

Very good point I think whichever one she decides on it should also be capable of manual operation so that she can learn about the the finer points of the different settings.

Poee7R wrote:

hell even I love it with its IA mode (idiot mode :rolleyes:).

If she lets me borrow it that will be the most important feature.

You could take a picture of a fly's booty from 100 yards if thats your thing,

Not that I'm into such things but do you have such pic?:eek::D
Pricing is within her budget and she would definately opt for the black version as she will want to try and look professional.

Systems

wz2p7j wrote: »

Will she be doing landscapes and creative work or is the camera just to shoot some shots when she's together with friends?

Chris

She's looking to capture the outdoors, things like landscapes,sunsets ,animals etc.

SDA SRS 1.2

+1 for the Lumix - love mine! I prefer the rechargable battery pack to constantly buying batteries.

VSchneider

GV#27 wrote: »

BeRad wrote:

Keep in mind though, that Ultrazooms aren't that great in low light situations.

VSchneider wrote:

Bright lens (small f-number, edit: a.k.a aperture)

I assume these are related.Do Ultrazoom lenses typically have higher f numbers.?

These are related, but not necessarily the rule.

Brighter ("faster" in photo-speak; smaller f/) lens is desirable, since it usualy means faster auto-focus, better low light shooting, better bokeh (background blur when needed), better control against motion blur, i.e. all things your daughter will begin to appreciate if she keeps the hobby and gets more technical and creative with her shooting.

As lens zooms it usually looses brightness, and thus there are two f-stop numbers in the p&s camera spec.

Canon SX10 IS
- 28-560 mm (20x)
- f/2.8 - 5.7
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ28
- 27-486 mm (18x)
- f/2.8 - 4.4

Comparing these two, for example, Panasonic Leica branded lens is a clear winner. It stays 2/3rds brighter zoomed out and is wider (1-2mm at close range is typically more useful than an extra 50 at the far end).

This is where I feel Canon lost their focus (no pun intended) in the recent year of ultra-zoom war. S3 IS 3 generations ago had f/2.7-3.5 aperture range with 12x zoom (2.3 times brighter zoomed out !!!), and excellent performance. Panasonic (that I almost bought at the time - FZ8) greatly improved their sensor performance at low light and also kept excellent Leica lens just making it wider w/o pushing too far.

GV#27 wrote: »

She's looking to capture the outdoors, things like landscapes, sunsets, animals etc.

Ok, DMC-FZ28, I think, even if it's a bit on the far side of your budget. She'll want wide lens for landscapes, bright and wide for sunsets, and long and bright for shy animal shots + optical image stabilization for all 3, and Leica's and Canon's systems are one of the best here, too.

I wouldn't get the SX110 IS that you linked to in one of the posts, since it's lens while quite bright is not very wide. 36mm (what my S3 IS has) vs. 27-28mm wide open is quite noticeable. Also, lack of viewfinder may seem like a no big deal and cool, but pressing camera to your face helps reducing lens-shake when zooomed out far.

obieone

Poee7R wrote: »

Let me +1 this here. I bought the FZ for my wife for her birthday as a "bridge" camera, before that all she was used to were P+S's. She loves it, hell even I love it with its IA mode (idiot mode :rolleyes:). You could take a picture of a fly's booty from 100 yards if thats your thing, or go nose to lens with a venomous reptile, of course... if thats your thing.

Takes great shots and has tons of options and features, if you would like Fred I can email you some to see what you think. And the pricing these days is a hell of alot better than it was last summer. My only recommendation would be to get one in black, as silver will show any marks/scuffs.


Dave

++1. I have the predecessor, FZ7 and this thing has got way more features than I'll EVER use. The best one is, it IS idiot proof, cuz I be one!(when it comes to cameras:D)

shack

If she is truly interested in photography...get her a used DSLR. Used, in the $200 - $250 range you can often find several nice earlier generation Canon or Nikon entry level DSLRs (ie: Rebel XT, XTi or Nikon D40, D50, D70) with a decent kit lens, with low clicks that will help her learn photography much better than a P&S. It is also a good base to get more lenses as she grows in the hobby. Photographers are as big gear whores as audio nuts. They always need the next...best...greatest new body and lens. They are not that difficult to use AND if she decides she doesn't like it there is a market to sell used DSLRs unlike P&S cameras as the next gen rolls around so fast there is no real market for used ones.

There are several camera forums to look for used cameras...POTN, Nikon Cafe, Fred Miranda, etc, etc...and these guys are like audio guys in that they tend to take care of their gear, and are only selling to trade up.

Just a thought.

shack

One more thing about the P&S super zooms. Some of the better ones (Canon G10 and the Panny FZ28 mentioned in the thread) do have a fairly wide range for their optical zoom on the short end...but the majority of the zoom on the long end is digital even on the better P&S models. All that means is that the camera is cropping the maximum optical image in camera to make it appear closer. Easily something one can do with any image on the computer.

shack

shack wrote: »

If she is truly interested in photography...get her a used DSLR. Used, in the $200 - $250 range you can often find several nice earlier generation Canon or Nikon entry level DSLRs (ie: Rebel XT, XTi or Nikon D40, D50, D70) with a decent kit lens, with low clicks that will help her learn photography much better than a P&S. It is also a good base to get more lenses as she grows in the hobby. Photographers are as big gear whores as audio nuts. They always need the next...best...greatest new body and lens. They are not that difficult to use AND if she decides she doesn't like it there is a market to sell used DSLRs unlike P&S cameras as the next gen rolls around so fast there is no real market for used ones.

There are several camera forums to look for used cameras...POTN, Nikon Cafe, Fred Miranda, etc, etc...and these guys are like audio guys in that they tend to take care of their gear, and are only selling to trade up.

Just a thought.

EDIT - I see I am just rehashing several things jcaut has already mentioned. Sorry. I also see the OPs response that a DSLR will be too much for her to handle. NOT the case IMO. All of the entry level DSLRs mentioned have the dreaded "green box" making it a fully automatic P&S camera - ONLY BETTER - because it has the ability to do more when she is ready.

Systems

Thanks VS and Shack for the educational posts,I'm learning something.This is a big investment for her so the more we can learn before purchasing the better.
The idea of going with used DSLR is a good one but she wants something new in a box.
The Lumix FZ28 looks like the top contender,she will just have to save her pennies a little while longer if she decides thats the one.


Thanks all for your input.

madmax

I would go one of two ways. Something that she can carry around all the time like this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001SER48I/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=3207611021&ref=pd_sl_666p3km6m6_e
or maybe a used canon or nikon dslr as Shack suggested. (used could easily look and function as new) I just picked up the canon in the link last month. It is a truely awesome camera and its in my shirt pocket right now... I think. To get some real use out of a camera means having it with you, especially for a 12 year old.


Edit: The canon is not an "ultra zoom" but does go up to 12x which includes both the optical and digital zoom. Oh, and the L100 nikon does not accept rechargeable batteries (size wise too tight) and the reviews are typically bad over all.