AB International amps?

arnaudh

Came across some used "AB Systems" amps, which apparently is now AB International. They are a California-based company, seem to have been around for a while, but I could find very little else on their products - maybe they cater to professional circles?

http://www.abamps.com

I'm looking for some reviews and additional info, most notably on their Precedent Series line of amps.

McLoki

AB international is a sister company to verastarr.

They purchased the plans and parts to the original Cinepro amps (like what I have). As a matter of fact - when I needed a board worked on in my Cinepro amp, I sent it to AB International to be worked on. When I got it back and had a question about it - they were able to get me straightened out through a quick e-mail and phone call.

I have not heard much about AB International amps, but as a company - they are very good and I would do business with them again.

polkie4life

All 3 amps AB, Cinepro, and Verastarr pretty much use the same design for their amps.

The amps are more aimed at the professional market, hence the lack of info/reviews. I would still give them a listen, i suspect the AB will differ little from the other two amps, performance wise.

Also keep in mind who these guys have supplied with amps,
* Sony studios
* Industrial light and magic
* Skywalker ranch

We tried to find info on these amps, (all 3), aswell but there is very little out there. It all came down to specs for us in regards to the Verastarrs, and there's not a lot out there that compares really. As for performance, i hope your speakers are up for it. Power is prodigious and it's the most complete amp i have ever heard.

McLoki

Just to make you aware - the original Cinepro company is gone. (the owner died on the operating table during heart surgery.

Some of his partners / employees purchased the existing parts and started AB international and Verastarr.

The Cinepro name was also purchased by another company and is still running at Cinepro.com.

I only heard one side of the story and am unsure who exactly is the owner of what from the original Cinepro company (between Verastarr and the new Cinepro) - but when I had to make my choice of who would work on my amp (and if I had the bucks to spend on a new amp - who would get my money) my money went to and would continue to go to Verastarr / AB International.

arnaudh

Thanks guys for the lowdown. Very instructive.

polkie4life

In my quest for info on these guys i found this old link

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=39296&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

Was an interesting read. What occurred after, i'm not really sure, i do know that it involved a lot of time spent in court haggling over ownership rights...

** If you read far enough Eric talks about the development of the multi-ch amp. When testing they took the amp to clipping into 4ohm load at the exact same frequency on all 6 ch's, result - a melted 10amp iec.

stevefish69

1st Post here so please be gentle. I do frequent loads of other AV sites under the same username though

I've just mailed AB amps ref my Cinepro 3K6 that i've just purchased here in the UK.

I believe that i'm one of only a hanfull of people who have these amps over here and within 6 hrs have come to the conclusion that it walks all over my old Parasound 1500a / 1205a cobo.

I do have a problem where the Center channel gain knob emits noise when being turned and the power LED is very dim, but neither of these are show stoppers. I'm awaiting a response from Ab ref the above.

I was gonna PM you McLoki but without 10 posts this forum will not let me. You seem to be the master ref Cinepro, and i've yet to witness the fan on the side come on. The moster is still running cooler than my old Parasound 1205a in the same rack, but i presumed that the fans run on these amps constantly

Regards

Steve

Edit - AB have replied within 40 mins of sending them a mail - Thats what i call Customer service

McLoki

I had a similar issue with my Cinepro (was rough when I purchased it used). A crackling noise when I turned the pot on the front. (forget which channel now).

Anyway - used Caig contact cleaner (sprayed it right into the POT from the back side) and the crackling completely went away. - I cleaned all six pots while I was in there....

Amp has worked great for 2-3 years now that I have owned it. Just so you know - my amp is the 3k6 Mk.1 (1st generation)

Were they able to set you straight?

Monster Jam

Front page of AB International reads:

"In the 1990's when it became more profitable to take manufacturing overseas, AB™ gave it a shot but realized this quality did not meet our rigorous standards. Instead, we decided to keep our manufacturing here in the United States, for the benefit of our customers. This allows us to maintain our strict quality control and to personally inspect and test each amplifier before it ships."

LOL - insert snarky comment here

polkie4life

Monster Jam wrote: »

Front page of AB International reads:

"In the 1990's when it became more profitable to take manufacturing overseas, AB™ gave it a shot but realized this quality did not meet our rigorous standards. Instead, we decided to keep our manufacturing here in the United States, for the benefit of our customers. This allows us to maintain our strict quality control and to personally inspect and test each amplifier before it ships."

LOL - insert snarky comment here

Snarky comment? Why?

If you could have a peek inside one you would see what they mean. We tried searching part numbers/ brand names for info and have come up empty handed. We queried this and found that caps, power supplies etc are made solely for them and to their specifications. All three brands, (Verastarr, Cinepro, AB), are seriously over engineered internally...

Monster Jam

The text can be read any number of ways, but the two most obvious interpretations include:
1) That oveseas manufacturing is inferior to manufacturing in the U.S. This of course is a blatently false statement. In fact many of the most respected brands in the world are bands that manufacter and assemble overseas.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they meant this:
2) That their first attempt at manufacturing overseas didn't pan out for them. Fine - but thats their problem with quality control and does NOT reflect the success other companies have had.

And by the way, their website screams of white van. Paypal as payment for their product AND you name the price and product?! Sweet!

Sorry, but the company's website just doesn't feel right.

polkie4life

stevefish69 wrote: »

1st Post here so please be gentle. I do frequent loads of other AV sites under the same username though

I've just mailed AB amps ref my Cinepro 3K6 that i've just purchased here in the UK.

I believe that i'm one of only a hanfull of people who have these amps over here and within 6 hrs have come to the conclusion that it walks all over my old Parasound 1500a / 1205a cobo.

I do have a problem where the Center channel gain knob emits noise when being turned and the power LED is very dim, but neither of these are show stoppers. I'm awaiting a response from Ab ref the above.

I was gonna PM you McLoki but without 10 posts this forum will not let me. You seem to be the master ref Cinepro, and i've yet to witness the fan on the side come on. The moster is still running cooler than my old Parasound 1205a in the same rack, but i presumed that the fans run on these amps constantly

Regards

Steve

Edit - AB have replied within 40 mins of sending them a mail - Thats what i call Customer service

Customer service is stellar, so much so i'd rate them not far behind polk...

What speakers are you running with the cinepro?

coyotemoonsound

AB International is probably the best company I've ever dealt with as far as
service is concerned. I have a whole rack full of Precedent Series 900a's
and 600a's used for live sound reinforcement, under typical festival concert
conditions, and they never quit, always sound amazing. ABI isn't well known
because they don't spend a bunch of money on media.

Look inside any ABI amp and you'll find it to be built like a tank, easy to
service if needed, and the company will bend over backwards to help you
out if you ask.

I recently wanted to re-cap a couple amps, just because they're over 10 years old and I thought it was time. The Cornell Dubilier filter caps are custom
values/voltage, and ABI's service manager informed me they were out of stock at the moment, and was expecting them in about 2 wks hence.
If I needed them immediately, he offered to pull a couple sets (4 per amp)
off of the assembly line. That's service folks.

As for using PayPal and having a website that "screams white van",
you can find a spec sheet or manual for any product they have ever
manufactured for the downloading, call or email the service manager
personally, and purchase anything they make currently, which is more
than can be said for a lot of equipment manufacturers.

Good folks. Give 'em a try.

Dave Reynolds
Coyotemoon Sound
Coden, AL

JohnLocke88

Have a chance to pick up a 900A; thinking about trying it out for passive subwoofer duty. Any thoughts from those with AB experience?

McLoki

Looks like it will work out pretty well.

A buttkicker amplifier is another good inexpensive choice for a passive sub with tons of power.... (currently appears to be on sale for $261 with full warrantee... - but only 2 in stock right now at that price.)

JohnLocke88

McLoki wrote: »

Looks like it will work out pretty well.

A buttkicker amplifier is another good inexpensive choice for a passive sub with tons of power.... (currently appears to be on sale for $261 with full warrantee... - but only 2 in stock right now at that price.)

That would be cool; especially since it has a physical hi freq cut off

stevefish69

polkie4life wrote: »

What speakers are you running with the cinepro?

A tad late to reply to this thread but the Cinepro is still alive and kicking. The problems with the pots and fan were all sorted and it still suprises me on a daily basis with the amount of sheer power and speed of delivery.

It will soon be replaced by a new amp from Bob at AB which should be even more powerful - Keep your eyes peeled on his website or have a peek here

The speakers i'm running at the moment are Kef Reference 3.2's, a Kef Ref 204/2C and old TDM 34DS surrounds plus an earthquake sound Q10B Tactile transducer. They present quiet a hard load to drive but have come alive with all that Cinepro power on tap.

stevefish69

Well my amp is ordered and paid for and will hopefully be with me within the next 6 weeks or so because these are hand built to my exact specification.

I've gone for the Cinema 6400 model which at 230V line voltage all 6 channels driven continous sine wave gives 440 watts at 8 and 660 at 4 ohms and has 135amps peak per channel on tap

I've upgraded the caps in the signal path to "Clarity Cap ESA" instead of the standard wima's which involved a bit of shifing components around on the board to accomodate their massive size in relation to the standards.

I'm hoping that the sound will be very similar to my existing 3K6 but with a tad more grunt and a lower noisefloor. I'll post some pics when it arrives

stevefish69

The amp has been sitting in the rack for over a week now and 1st impressions are very good. It's everything that the Cinepro had but a little bit more. The punch and dynamics seem to be better and the amount of control it has over my Kef reference system has to be heard to be believed.

Pics of the facia can be seen via the link above over on AVF but here are a couple of internal shots to wet people's appitite. Bob is definantly no white van man and this amp will be living on my equipment rack for a VERY long time





Not sure if the clarity caps make a big difference in the real world, but they sure look nice



To put things in perspective, my old Cinepro 3K6 (which is for sale BTW in the UK on Av-Forums) pulled 2400watts on a 240v supply. The AB systems pulls 3840 watts and all that extra power can be heard instantly )

McLoki

Very nice. Did you do the cap replacement or was that an available option when you ordered it?

Looks awesome and I bet it sounds even better.....

Michael

LessisNevermore

Very nice!

Do they build all their amps to order, or was this a special one-off "buddy" deal?

I'd love to hear one.

stevefish69

The amps are made to order and took about 6 odd weeks from order to delivery. The amps are not officially out yet but there are at least 10 that he's done for a few AV-Forum members in the UK. There is rumours that the price may go up when they are released properly in the US but i'd still imagine they would be made to order.

Bob really is a great guy to deal with - The input caps were changed at my request and cost a few $$ but he'll put anything in there that you want. One guy in the Uk has just ordered a pair with V-Caps fitted but they are a bit rich for my budget.

It drives my Kef Reference setup and Q10B tactile transducer like a dream and never once has felt like it was straining even above reference level

tonyb

I've had the old 3k6 cinepro. What a beast. Never got an ear on their SE versions though. Too bad they broke up but some companies took their designs and brought them to new levels, like Verastar. Thats a sweet looking amp from AB, just can't imagine the average household supplying enough juice for that puppy though...here in the states anyway.

stevefish69

tonyb wrote: »

I've had the old 3k6 cinepro. What a beast. Never got an ear on their SE versions though. Too bad they broke up but some companies took their designs and brought them to new levels, like Verastar. Thats a sweet looking amp from AB, just can't imagine the average household supplying enough juice for that puppy though...here in the states anyway.

Luckily i get a constant 241 volts from my supply

Bob bench tested my amp based on 240v and at just below the onset of clipping, it was giving 480watts with a constant sine wave into 2 channels and all 6 firing together gave 440watts

dziemian

Hi stevefish69,

Can you explain how you dealt with the fan coming on in your old Cinepro 3k6. It seem that I have the same issue ie it is still running on low sound levels. My model is 3k6-3.