Digital TV Transition...Argh!

Serendipity

So...

In order to get ready for the Digital TV transition on Friday, I hooked up all of my converter boxes to a rooftop antenna and scanned for all the channels. To my surprise, my TV could not receive the local CBS, ABC, and PBS stations, but NBC and FOX came in clear.

Over the weekend I went up to the roof to aim my antenna so that all the converter boxes reported a "Good" signal strength, at this point all of my sets receiving every one of the local channels.

Fast forward to today... the Sony KD-34XBR960 does not want to pick up CBS, ABC, and PBS (again!!) but my HTPC gets the channels marginally with an occasional freeze here and there. Same thing with the converter boxes.

I really, really don't want to go up to the roof again to aim my antenna. I've been using this antenna for 5 years now with the Sony KD-34XBR960, and all the digital channels have been coming in fine. Only recently have I needed to constantly adjust the antenna and even then reception is marginal.

BTW I am using a large directional 16 foot antenna mounted atop a 10' pole with distribution amplifier.

ViperZ

appadv wrote: »

So...

In order to get ready for the Digital TV transition on Friday, I hooked up all of my converter boxes to a rooftop antenna and scanned for all the channels. To my surprise, my TV could not receive the local CBS, ABC, and PBS stations, but NBC and FOX came in clear.

Over the weekend I went up to the roof to aim my antenna so that all the converter boxes reported a "Good" signal strength, at this point all of my sets receiving every one of the local channels.

Fast forward to today... the Sony KD-34XBR960 does not want to pick up CBS, ABC, and PBS (again!!) but my HTPC gets the channels marginally with an occasional freeze here and there. Same thing with the converter boxes.

I really, really don't want to go up to the roof again to aim my antenna. I've been using this antenna for 5 years now with the Sony KD-34XBR960, and all the digital channels have been coming in fine. Only recently have I needed to constantly adjust the antenna and even then reception is marginal.

BTW I am using a large directional 16 foot antenna mounted atop a 10' pole with distribution amplifier.

That's why I use a rotor.

dudeinaroom

+1 on the rotor. If your receiver\converter box has a jack for smart antenna you can get a compatible rotor setup to auto turn the antenna to aim at the desired TV station.

Serendipity

ViperZ wrote: »

That's why I use a rotor.

The thing is, some of my devices (converter boxes, for example) like the antenna rotated in one direction, but other devices on the same antenna like the antenna rotated in a different direction.

I don't know if it's the TV (Sony KD-34XBR960) that has a picky digital tuner or what, but every time I rotate the antenna I lose some digital channels on the TV.

Why would the TV require the antenna to be rotated slightly different from the other devices? I'm talking small changes, like 2-3 degrees are enough to make the TV display "No Signal" and the HTPC to freeze the picture.

dudeinaroom

Does your amp have 1 input and multiple outputs, or does it have 1 in 1 out?

CoolJazz

Sounds like you've worked at it pretty hard! But...STOP!!

You could be wasting your time to do it prior to the shut off date. Stations are going to in some cases be reverting back to their original channels which may mean different sites, different power levels along with the different frequency of the channel change. Many are doing so at the time of the analog shutdown, but I doubt all are. So some change may still occur after Friday.

If you spend lots of time on it now, you probably will have different results after the change!

In addition....I don't know how stong or not your signals are, but that sounds like a pretty high gain, very directional antenna. The digital signals seem kind of picky about 100% decode and that antenna could aggravate that. If the directions signals come from differ much, then a lower gain antenna could actually help. Remember, with the digital, more signal doesn't equal better picture. With digital, it's more like once above a threshold (that with analog would equal a snowy picture), then your good. Much more signal can mean getting reflected signals come in with greater delay and equalling more glitch likelyhood. That splitter could also be good or bad for digital depending on it's group delay at the frequencies of interest. So, after the transition....try repeaking and if necessary you might try temporarily dropping in smaller antenna and or bypassing the splitter.

In my case, I'm in a pretty strong field and never could get a larger grid (not yagi) antenna to work. Like you describe, good on some and glitchy on others at times. When I went to a pair of rabbit ears, I did better right away and after playing some, got them so they are almost always perfect. Once in a while, I get some glitches, but not many or very often. Usually a better picture from the antenna reception than the quality from cable or the same picture from satellite.

CoolJazz

dudeinaroom

appadv wrote: »

The thing is, some of my devices (converter boxes, for example) like the antenna rotated in one direction, but other devices on the same antenna like the antenna rotated in a different direction.

I don't know if it's the TV (Sony KD-34XBR960) that has a picky digital tuner or what, but every time I rotate the antenna I lose some digital channels on the TV.

Why would the TV require the antenna to be rotated slightly different from the other devices? I'm talking small changes, like 2-3 degrees are enough to make the TV display "No Signal" and the HTPC to freeze the picture.

Both of my converter boxes are like that. Some days I can pick up all the channels available, other days I only get pbs and cbs. I can turn the antenna and get another channel, but loose another channel, and the next day move it back to the "primary position" and get all channels. I just chalk it up to the forces of mother nature.

Serendipity

dudeinaroom wrote: »

Does your amp have 1 input and multiple outputs, or does it have 1 in 1 out?

It has 1 in 1 out, connected to the output is a high-bandwidth splitter which feeds the TV's. I've tried connecting the antenna to a single TV without the amp or splitter and the picture still cuts in and out.

I am using a "Large Directional" antenna with the amp.

Serendipity

dudeinaroom wrote: »

Both of my converter boxes are like that. Some days I can pick up all the channels available, other days I only get pbs and cbs. I can turn the antenna and get another channel, but loose another channel, and the next day move it back to the "primary position" and get all channels. I just chalk it up to the forces of mother nature.

That's exactly what I am talking about. Sometimes I can pick up all the channels, but other days I get very few channels.

dkg999

You just need to rescan the channels. The stations are making lots of changes as the conversion takes place. I've arrived at my place in IA and in the 2 weeks since I was last there all of my digital channels weren't coming in. I simply let the tv rescan the channels and everything works then. I've had to rescan several times to keep all the channels working.

Serendipity

dkg999 wrote: »

You just need to rescan the channels. The stations are making lots of changes as the conversion takes place. I've arrived at my place in IA and in the 2 weeks since I was last there all of my digital channels weren't coming in. I simply let the tv rescan the channels and everything works then. I've had to rescan several times to keep all the channels working.

I've been doing that every time I go up to the roof and adjust the antenna. Over the past few years, I've adjusted the antenna maybe 4-5 times and always re-scanned the TV's after doing so.

It's only recently (like in the last 10 days) that I've been losing digital channels.

Serendipity

CoolJazz wrote: »

Sounds like you've worked at it pretty hard! But...STOP!!

You could be wasting your time to do it prior to the shut off date. Stations are going to in some cases be reverting back to their original channels which may mean different sites, different power levels along with the different frequency of the channel change. Many are doing so at the time of the analog shutdown, but I doubt all are. So some change may still occur after Friday.

If you spend lots of time on it now, you probably will have different results after the change!

In addition....I don't know how stong or not your signals are, but that sounds like a pretty high gain, very directional antenna. The digital signals seem kind of picky about 100% decode and that antenna could aggravate that. If the directions signals come from differ much, then a lower gain antenna could actually help. Remember, with the digital, more signal doesn't equal better picture. With digital, it's more like once above a threshold (that with analog would equal a snowy picture), then your good. Much more signal can mean getting reflected signals come in with greater delay and equalling more glitch likelyhood. That splitter could also be good or bad for digital depending on it's group delay at the frequencies of interest. So, after the transition....try repeaking and if necessary you might try temporarily dropping in smaller antenna and or bypassing the splitter.

In my case, I'm in a pretty strong field and never could get a larger grid (not yagi) antenna to work. Like you describe, good on some and glitchy on others at times. When I went to a pair of rabbit ears, I did better right away and after playing some, got them so they are almost always perfect. Once in a while, I get some glitches, but not many or very often. Usually a better picture from the antenna reception than the quality from cable or the same picture from satellite.

CoolJazz

Interesting. With an analog signal, the best results were obtained with this antenna (smaller ones did not provide as good of a picture). However, with digital it seems like this antenna is very "picky" with respect to tuning.

According to Antennaweb.org, I'm approximately 10-12 miles away from local stations, yet up to 92 miles away from other stations. At one point I was able to receive all the far-away stations with this antenna, but now they are glitchy.

ryanjoachim

or pay $15 a month and get all those channels from someone like Comcrap?

Serendipity

ryanjoachim wrote: »

or pay $15 a month and get all those channels from someone like Comcrap?

The most "basic" cable package here starts at around $30 a month, it's all junk anyways...

mhardy6647

CoolJazz wrote: »

Sounds like you've worked at it pretty hard! But...STOP!!

You could be wasting your time to do it prior to the shut off date. Stations are going to in some cases be reverting back to their original channels which may mean different sites, different power levels along with the different frequency of the channel change. Many are doing so at the time of the analog shutdown, but I doubt all are. So some change may still occur after Friday.

If you spend lots of time on it now, you probably will have different results after the change!

In addition....I don't know how stong or not your signals are, but that sounds like a pretty high gain, very directional antenna. The digital signals seem kind of picky about 100% decode and that antenna could aggravate that. If the directions signals come from differ much, then a lower gain antenna could actually help. Remember, with the digital, more signal doesn't equal better picture. With digital, it's more like once above a threshold (that with analog would equal a snowy picture), then your good. Much more signal can mean getting reflected signals come in with greater delay and equalling more glitch likelyhood. That splitter could also be good or bad for digital depending on it's group delay at the frequencies of interest. So, after the transition....try repeaking and if necessary you might try temporarily dropping in smaller antenna and or bypassing the splitter.

In my case, I'm in a pretty strong field and never could get a larger grid (not yagi) antenna to work. Like you describe, good on some and glitchy on others at times. When I went to a pair of rabbit ears, I did better right away and after playing some, got them so they are almost always perfect. Once in a while, I get some glitches, but not many or very often. Usually a better picture from the antenna reception than the quality from cable or the same picture from satellite.

CoolJazz

Good advice I think. We're marginal where I live; I am going to wait for the dust to settle. We can certainly live without OTA TV for a while (we hardly watch now, except for news.... although my wife in recent months has developed a slightly disturbing prediliction for Oprah).

billbillw

Just curious, what kind of amp you using? A pole mounted pre-amp? That is what is generally recommended if you are going through long runs and into splitters. There is a model by Channelmaster that is highly rated. I think its CM-7777. I've been using that, along with a UHF 8 bay antenna for more than 5 years, running into a 6 way splitter that goes all through the house. Absolutely no problems with reception and I'm 20-30 miles from every tower. My TV's tuners work perfect, my STB tuners work perfect, etc.

Are all the stations you are trying to get in the 10-20 mile range? If so, you might have a little overkill on the antenna and its too directional. For the 90 mile away stations, you need it. You might just need to have a dual antenna array. Large directional for the far away stations, medium sized omni-directional for the closer stations.

I'm lucky because all the stations I want/need are located within about 5-7 degrees of each other. Easily within the node of my antenna. I haven't had to adjust it since 2005.

bobman1235

You have internet at home right? Unless you're watching sports, pretty much every major show is only the net now. Maybe until you get everything settled, just hook a computer up to your TV and watch all the shows online.

CoolJazz

appadv wrote: »

According to Antennaweb.org, I'm approximately 10-12 miles away from local stations, yet up to 92 miles away from other stations. At one point I was able to receive all the far-away stations with this antenna, but now they are glitchy.

That is a good source for info!! Yup...92 miles!! Whew...you do need the big antenna for that!! But that would tend to be incompatible with the more local signals. Again, relocations of any of those locals might help (or hurt) your distant reception.

Depending on the compatibility of point angle, again, think about getting less signal for those locals! Unless something is unusual about your immediately surrounding area, that big antenna might well be getting too many reflected signals up to a level that causes issues. I have fixed (satellite digital signals) with attenuators. Went from glitchies...to rock solid. Ever seen those F fitting attenuators at Radio Shack? Those were what I used. The amp may be bring up issues for distant signals too. You might need to compromise a bit between max distant signal and rotating just a little more towards nulling the stronger signals if possible.

CoolJazz

ryanjoachim

appadv wrote: »

The most "basic" cable package here starts at around $30 a month, it's all junk anyways...

Ah, that explains it. "Basic" cable here costs $15 a month, and has all the local channels (nbc, abc, cbs, cw, etc).

Serendipity

CoolJazz wrote: »

Unless something is unusual about your immediately surrounding area, that big antenna might well be getting too many reflected signals up to a level that causes issues.

CoolJazz

From what I've read online, this is a problem in NYC (along with Northern NJ and the surrounding area). I'm approximately 12 miles from Times Square and have problems picking up local channels.

Funny how everything worked fine since 2004, yet as the local stations went full power my reception got WORSE.

Serendipity

Just to clarify...

The stations that I'm now missing are in the 10-12 mile range, whereas stations 50+ miles away (which used to be viewable) freeze up constantly.

I'm thinking somehow the local stations going full power is causing my reception problems.

CoolJazz

Amplification of digital signals is regarded as requiring a very flat response across the pass band. As in needs a class A amplifier. :cool: Don't know how well you can get away with it in a preamplifier. Also, as I'm sure you know, the NYC market has had a number of adjustments in transmit locations available, in a rather forced way, over the past few years.

Serendipity

I got rid of the amplifier and the problem is still there.

Face

I'm having DTV reception problems also, wait until the transition is official before driving yourself crazy.

Serendipity

Face wrote: »

I'm having DTV reception problems also, wait until the transition is official before driving yourself crazy.

I guess I'll wait until Friday to aim the antenna.

fatchowmein

appadv wrote: »

I guess I'll wait until Friday to aim the antenna.

...until a moth flys by and interrupts your signal.

danger boy

appadv wrote: »

So...

In order to get ready for the Digital TV transition on Friday, I hooked up all of my converter boxes to a rooftop antenna and scanned for all the channels. To my surprise, my TV could not receive the local CBS, ABC, and PBS stations, but NBC and FOX came in clear.

Over the weekend I went up to the roof to aim my antenna so that all the converter boxes reported a "Good" signal strength, at this point all of my sets receiving every one of the local channels.

Fast forward to today... the Sony KD-34XBR960 does not want to pick up CBS, ABC, and PBS (again!!) but my HTPC gets the channels marginally with an occasional freeze here and there. Same thing with the converter boxes.

I really, really don't want to go up to the roof again to aim my antenna. I've been using this antenna for 5 years now with the Sony KD-34XBR960, and all the digital channels have been coming in fine. Only recently have I needed to constantly adjust the antenna and even then reception is marginal.

BTW I am using a large directional 16 foot antenna mounted atop a 10' pole with distribution amplifier.

what do you expect out of a $40 converter box? not surprising it's not as good as the other tuner in your Sony.

danger boy

I use a Terk 55 outdoor antenna. it maxes out my digital signal meter strength.

http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Technology-TV-55-Outdoor-Amplified/dp/B00005T3A9

runs about $60 is all

maybe your antenna isn't maximized for HDTV signals? not sure if the type of antenna makes a difference or not.

From the Manufacturer
The Terk TV-55 is engineered specifically to optimize the performance of high definition television as well as analog television signals. The TV-55’s unique helical coil element allows for an unobtrusive design yet without compromising the ability to capture lower-frequency TV stations. The helical coil receives both UHF and VHF frequencies and provides exceptional reception at all frequencies.

The TV-55 functions as both a high-performance outdoor and indoor antenna. It’s ideal for houses and apartments--anywhere an unobtrusive yet high-performance antenna is desired.

Thanks to its unique slim profile and weather-proof design, the TV-55 can be installed under the eaves of a roof, on a windowsill, on an outside wall, on a terrace, or used as a roof-top antenna. It easily mounts inside a house or apartment on a wall, in a closet or attic, or any number of locations near or away from your TV. The TV-55 can even be mounted on top of an RV or on a boat (special marine version available). All necessary mounting hardware is included.

The TV-55 features a patented dual-mode ultra low-noise amplifier that allows a choice of the best gain setting for maximum reception. The amplifier can be set to high-gain mode to correct for signals that are too weak, or bypassed for optimum reception of strong signals. The amplifier is connected directly to the antenna element for the shortest signal path and lowest noise. To ensure highest-quality signal transmission, the TV-55 includes a threaded F-connector for connection to RG6 cable (not included).

The TV-55 is lightweight and highly durable. Designed for reliable performance year after year, the TV-55 is constructed from rustproof, high-strength aluminum and hermetically sealed with weatherproof polycarbonate housing, for protection from the most severe environmental conditions.

Product Description
You've bought your HDTV monitor and tuner. Now you need an antenna. The Terk TV55 indoor/outdoor amplified antenna provides clear and sharp HDTV and analog VHF/UHF TV reception. Its helical coil technology and patented dual-mode ultra-low-noise amplifier supply clear, powerful reception of HDTV and analog broadcast signals Includes F connector for connection to RG6 cable Mounting hardware for multiple options included Amplifier gain - 10 dB Output impedance - 75 Ohm Bandwidth - 54-806 MHz Dimensions - 3.5H x 46W x 2.25D

Serendipity

danger boy wrote: »

what do you expect out of a $40 converter box? not surprising it's not as good as the other tuner in your Sony.

Actually, it's the other way around.

The tuner in the $40 converter boxes gets the signal but freezes up often; the Sony's tuner usually locks in the signal perfectly but when it loses the signal, there's no picture.

4406bbl

Go to u-tube and type coat hanger antenna and make one, works great, or Google dtv antenna and find a site that shows how to make them, simple, cheap, and they work.

Serendipity

4406bbl wrote: »

Go to u-tube and type coat hanger antenna and make one, works great, or Google dtv antenna and find a site that shows how to make them, simple, cheap, and they work.

That's only good for local broadcasts...