RTi series and Yamaha

camel_89si

hello, not new to the forums but new to posting...

just had a quick question about some speaker/receiver pairing.

i currently am using a yamaha rx-x631 receiver, which is pretty much an entry level 100w per ch 5.1. i would like to be able to take advantage of the dolby true hd, dts ma, etc hd audio formats on blu ray discs. i've had my eye on a couple yamaha receivers but have yet to make the jump.

basically here is my question.. my speaker set up at the time consists of:

center- polk csi-a4
fronts and surrounds- polk rti-a1

i've been looking at the yamaha rx-v863 for some time now, which is a 7.1 105w per ch. however, i ran across a great price on the yamaha rx-v3900, but it is 7.1 140w per ch. my center is rated at up to 200w and the 4 rti's are rated at 125w max. would 140w per ch be too much to handle? i found the 3900 for $1,099, which it's normally $1,799. i just don't want to risk damaging my speakers. i am planning on getting a pair of rti-a5 towers in the future once i move into a house and i know they would love the power, i just don't want to damage the a1's.

Erik Tracy

My original HT setup is pretty close to what you are considering:
Yamaha V1800
Fronts and Rears: RTi4s (precursor to the RTiA1s)
Center: CSi3 (precursor to the CSiA4)

But - I had a PSW303 subwoofer and I don't see a sub listed in your description.

I used this setup in my mid-sized family room for close to year and was very pleased with the sound for blu-ray movies and HD audio content.

The higher end Yamaha's do NOT have the reputation of being overly 'bright', imo. Several reviews of the V1800 actually listed its sonic character as 'warm'. I would expect the same of the V3900.

So, in my experience, the RTi4 pairing with the V1800 was a good one.

I could easily fill the room with sound for music and movies to the point where my 12 year old son would say "Dad, it is too loud!"

Granted - I was not trying to simulate the levels of a Who concert, but I was getting up to the -5db range on my V1800.

And the RTi4s held up just fine - no harm, no damage.

But, since you have not listed a sub, the one thing to be careful of is when you watch a movie with heavy LFE effects - say like Cloverfield or War of the Worlds.

If you push the volume too high, then yes, you may overdrive the RTi4s into trying to reproduce loud low frequencies which may harm the bass driver.

Otherwise, if this is your entry point - you should be ok until you get the urge and budget to upgrade. But even with RTiA5s - I'd still recommend adding a good sub to your rig.

fwiw,

thuffman03

There should not be an issue. Most of the time you are not even using 10 wpc during normal listing. My Definitive Technology center is rated at 200 watts and my center amp is 280 watts. I just don't crank it way up.

Plus it is better to be over powered than under. More speakers have been damaged by over driving the amp than having too much power to the speakers.

svtjoe

If anything, the higher wattage receiver will protect your speakers at higher volume.


Low rated receivers ($150 best buy special) hooked up to those is when you start blowing tweeters because the distortion.


In other terms, get the higher rated AVR if you can afford it. You Polks will thank you for it.

Toolfan66

I say get the RXV863 and get a external 3 channel amp "used", a sub and be done with it. You will be a very happy man, and so will your Polks.

Piece it one by one if you have to.

Then the Yammy is powering you surrounds, and the amp is powering the center and fronts "A5's" then your not working the whole system very hard, and you will have a better sound stage.

Larry.

apphd

Not sure what prices you are finding but I would say RX-V3900 or try to find a 663 instead of the 863. The 3900 is a big step up from the 863 and is supposed to be a great AVR.
When the 663 and 863 came out there was a big step up in price between the two, and the 863 had little over the 663 to justify it IMHO.

As others have said the 140W power spec should be of no concern.

renowilliams

I had a Yamaha RXV 861 with my current speaker set up and it drove them ok and also sounded ok for H/T. I didn't like how it sounded playing music, it was bright sounding to me. I found my current avr and it was a quantum leap in power and sound. As many will tell you in this forum sound is a very subjective thing and you will have to figure out what sounds good to your ears. I would advise listening to some different set ups, if you can.

Good Luck

Toolfan66

I agree with reno here to an extent, but with an external amp it was night and day with the clarity. If you just want to put out for just a receiver then i say go for the Pioneer Elite SC-05 or SC-07.

But really what is your budget? Then we can give you all sorts of ideas based on a budget.

Larry.

camel_89si

thanks for the info guys. i do have a sub, just a basic polk psw-10, since i live in an apartment and well some of you probably know how that goes, plus it was free with my speaker purchase. so i'm waiting till i get into a house before i get a better sub, although i must say i'm very pleased with this one even with just 50 watts.

i'm quite happy with my yammy 361, had it for about a year to get me started with everything when i got tired of my htib. it has pretty clean sound esp for what i paid for it, but since i got outta the htib business it has ended up costing me a lot of cash cuz since then i wanted better speakers (was using csi-a4 and the psw-10 with some old jbl's, which did sound good, i just wanted voice matched), so then i got the 4 rti-a1's, and then i upgraded from my 32" lcd to a 46" and got a ps3 for blu ray and gaming, now i want more power and lossless audio! i'm learning quickly that this HT stuff is a never ending cycle! i always thought my old man was crazy, now i understand!

i think i'm gonna hold off on the receiver for the mean time. i did some thinking today and decided that now is not a good time to go out and spend that money. although it is tempting.... especially for $700 off the original price!

Toolfan66

You know our manners suck here,

WELCOME TO CLUB POLK!!!!!!

camel_89si

hahaha thanks man!

Toolfan66

camel_89si wrote: »

hahaha thanks man!

:cool: NP

curved

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

I agree with reno here to an extent, but with an external amp it was night and day with the clarity. If you just want to put out for just a receiver then i say go for the Pioneer Elite SC-05 or SC-07.

But really what is your budget? Then we can give you all sorts of ideas based on a budget.

Larry.

Agree 100%!!

You have a great start!!! If you like the way it sounds, great. But if you hang around here for long you will definitely get the upgrade bug

nooshinjohn

when I came to this place I was running a Yamaha RX-v861 and a set of mointor 50's up front, now look at the gear! they are full of great advice, but keep a hand on the wallet as they like to help you spend it! lol.. these guys are great!

I found this from Yamaha direct for you...

http://www.yamahashoponline.com/detail/YAM+RX-V3800BL

the price seems good too. I concur about a good amp for at least the fronts, BUT in my opinion the Yamaha range is very bright and that includes to a lesser extent the high end as well. I feel they excel in their pre sections, so I use mine as a pre/pro and run all power thru my amp.

bluecomet

I am one of the few Yamaha guys here. I would go with the Yamaha V3900. It is a great receiver. Unless you are running LSi's, you are not going to need more power than what this thing puts out unless you want to tick off the neighbors. I have never found the higher end V series to be bright. The jump you are making in receivers is little league to the majors. If you can get a V3900 for a great price go for it. It is a beast.

camel_89si

ok so here is what i decided. if the 3900 for $1,099 was still at best buy after one week then i would buy it, well go figure, went this morning and it was gone. so i've been contemplating on other receivers and thinking about my budget. i still owe some money on my TV so i'm going to wait till that is paid off before i purchase, and i've set a budget at $1,000. i've been looking at the yamaha rx-v765 and it looks like a pretty nice receiver. i had a chance to hear a v663 yesterday at best buy paired with a set of klipsch speakers and it sounded really good, the v765 is the newer model of the v663 with 5w more power per ch. so i'm gonna keep my eye on one of those. also noticed that the v863's are on clearance so looks like a new model of that series is due. like apphd said, i don't see much difference between the 663 and 863 to justify the $300~ price difference. so probably towards the end of the summer/fall i'll be looking to purchase and chances are there will be new models to choose from. i really liked that 3900 but honestly it is probably serious overkill for what i need, as what mainly turned me on was the 140w per ch of power. it had so much stuff otherwise like hd radio tuner, networking and blah blah that i would probably never need. so i'm gonna try to keep my search more moderate.

so if anyone has any suggestions let me know.

cnh

I'm not a Yamaha AVR man myself. But frankly, as Bluecomet says, those Higher End Yammies are a step up and nice pieces. It's just a question of what sound you like. I really can't find anything "bad" to say with any manufacturer in the 1100+ dollar region: Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo, Denon, H/K, etc.

Also, that PS3 makes a pretty good Media server!

A 3900 Yamaha at that price....well...that's very attractive.

cnh

camel_89si

yea, it was the display model but still came with the full warranty and all. too bad it was gone, now someone is a very happy person! i saw the older rx-v1800 on amazon for $850, if i had the cash on hand i would have bought it as soon as i saw it. but i didn't have the funds. plus, i'm a man of instant gratification and would rather go to a local store to but it and bring it home right away rather than order online and spend several days of agony while waiting for it to ship lol.

and yes, the ps3 is probably my favorite electronic device of all time! it quite simply can just about do it all!

renowilliams

Don't discount getting a good used avr. I did and am very happy. By purchasing used I was able to get a flagship model that is fantastic!!

Just a suggestion

apphd

camel_89si wrote: »

ok so here is what i decided. if the 3900 for $1,099 was still at best buy after one week then i would buy it, well go figure, went this morning and it was gone. so i've been contemplating on other receivers and thinking about my budget. i still owe some money on my TV so i'm going to wait till that is paid off before i purchase, and i've set a budget at $1,000. i've been looking at the yamaha rx-v765 and it looks like a pretty nice receiver. i had a chance to hear a v663 yesterday at best buy paired with a set of klipsch speakers and it sounded really good, the v765 is the newer model of the v663 with 5w more power per ch. so i'm gonna keep my eye on one of those. also noticed that the v863's are on clearance so looks like a new model of that series is due. like apphd said, i don't see much difference between the 663 and 863 to justify the $300~ price difference. so probably towards the end of the summer/fall i'll be looking to purchase and chances are there will be new models to choose from. i really liked that 3900 but honestly it is probably serious overkill for what i need, as what mainly turned me on was the 140w per ch of power. it had so much stuff otherwise like hd radio tuner, networking and blah blah that i would probably never need. so i'm gonna try to keep my search more moderate.

so if anyone has any suggestions let me know.

If you listened to the 663 with some klipsch, chances are a Yamaha would not be too bright for you with your Polks. But 2 or 3 hours of listening compared to 10 or 15 mins. could change that. YMMV As Reno has pointed out don't discount going used or referb for added savings.

One thing to make sure of is make sure you get something with 5-7 ch pre outs. Your speakers now will not require much power, but if you make changes there, you may want to add more power, which could be done with an amp IF you have the pre outs on your AVR.

As far as suggestions...... don't be in a hurry, get out and listen to as many AVRs from different manufactures as possible, then when you decide what is right for you, shop around. This time allows you to: feel good that you are getting what YOU have decided you like best, found the best deal on it, and save a little more $$ so it is not very painful.

mdaudioguy

Hey... I'm a Yamaha guy... Don't buy one of their new models until you do your homework. Many people are put off by the lesser amplification in these units as evidenced by a significant decrease in weight. At the very least, consider a closeout RX-V_63 model (either 6 or 8) or a RV-V_ _00 model. These will definitely outperform their replacements (and supposedly, these were outperformed by their predecessors). We're talking about AVRs losing 10 lbs here... for Oprah (or me), that would be good, but for an AVR... not so good.:o

jimmydep

I have the new Rx-V665 that I'm using as a pre-pro to an Emotiva XPA-5 and a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200x5 powering an LSI-15 system.

I'm not trashing the Yamaha line but from my personal expierience the new yammi's build quality and amplifier section leaves alot to be desired. As a pre-pro I'm pleased with it's performance and it dosen't seem overly bright as others have stated.

I have listened to the Pioneer SC-05\07 they sounded very good and it seems the price is dropping below $1000

Jimmy

LuSh

I'm a Yamaha guy. With regards to the RXV3900...I currently use one. Pioneer makes a nice receiver; however I've listened to an RXV3900 work with very hard to drive speakers including Totem which require crazy dynamic shifts in impedance. The RXV3900 is a cousin of the RX-Z11; it uses the same circuit design. All other aspects (power supply, diodes, cap's) are toned down. The RXV3900 is very close to the RXZ7 with the 7 offering even more dynamics and a sense of ease which is hard to explain.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/rx-z7-7.1/

I would highly recommend reading a few reviews or best yet listen to a unit if possible. I have read a lot of people who mention "brightness" on Yamaha receivers. I've never heard anybody mentioned "Brightness" on RXV1900's and up. The word used to describe the RXV3900 by most of the audio rags is 'warm and finesse'. That's the most accurate way I could describe the sonic character of the RXV3900.

http://www.avguide.com/review/tested-yamaha-rx-v3900-av-receiver

You would be hard pressed to find a bad apple out of the whole lot at your specific price point. I would suggest Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha all make excellent products at those price points.

Also, I would never suggest purchasing a power amp with a receiver if you're using a fairly easy impedance driven speaker and use your system mostly for movies. It's simply mis-directed funds. What most fail to realize is that the Pre-section of an AVR is often more important then the power...the difference between a $400 receivers pre section is night and day from a $1500. You're not paying for only power...its the circuit design or the digital and analog stages and how clean and de-jittered signals can be processed. Most AVR's don't have switched pre-outputs (which many users don't realize). This simply means that the AVR even when connected to a power amplifier is running higher voltages even with a power amplifier according to the gain output of the pre. In lay-mans terms you can clip your amplifier on your main channels even when having a power amplifier connected to the pre because the receivers amplifiers are still 'live' and pouring out voltage.

camel_89si

ok so here's something a little more realistic in terms of my budget. what if i were to get a yamaha rx-v765, or it's predecessor the rx-v663 receiver, both are comparable, and use just that for now? and then down the road go with something along the lines of an emotiva upa-7 amplifier. should i do something like that? or would i be better off dishing out the $1,300ish dollars that would cost for both of those units and invest in just a receiver, such as a yamaha rx-v1900 or an openbox rx-v3900?

apphd

camel_89si wrote: »

ok so here's something a little more realistic in terms of my budget. what if i were to get a yamaha rx-v765, or it's predecessor the rx-v663 receiver, both are comparable, and use just that for now? and then down the road go with something along the lines of an emotiva upa-7 amplifier. should i do something like that? or would i be better off dishing out the $1,300ish dollars that would cost for both of those units and invest in just a receiver, such as a yamaha rx-v1900 or an openbox rx-v3900?

Well, that's a call only you can make. Like most things there are + and - for both directions. If you go with a high end AVR you do get a better pre section and amp section that will cover your current speakers with ease. You still have the option of adding an amp, if you ever need/want to, but then your total could start pushing $2K. On the down side if you go to five or more 4 ohm speakers, you would have the watts but probably fall short on current with out a separate amp. Plus you add the wait time for the funds.

If you go entry level mid-fi such as the 663 you loose some features and SQ (due to cheaper pre and amp section) but can build in a 2 step process by adding an amp later spreading out the expense.

If music is a preference over HT I would go with the better AVR, if HT is the priority I favor the entry level AVR and amp.

jso

I know this is an old thread, but I'm bumping to mention that I found LuSh's comments helpful when deciding on a receiver, particularly that better quality isn't just a beefier amp but also better quality circuitry.

I was going to get a 663, but ended up getting a used Denon 4802 for about the same price. Right now I only have RTi A5s but I'm looking to add a center and sub in the near future.

I also found a couple old threads, like this one, where several people mentioned that the 663 has a bright sound. I personally don't know since the local store didn't have one setup, but it was also a factor in my decision.

And another factor was seeing the real performance numbers on the 863:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2920/yamaha-rx-v863-av-receiver-dolby-digital-performance-page2.html