New Speakers create placement concerns

3DollaBillz

First of all, I would like say HELLO THERE!! I hope everyone is doing well and thanks for reading my VERY first post!

Okay, down to business....
I just purchased 2 brand new Monitor 70 floor speakers to complete my 7.1 surround sound system. The idea was to replace my front left and right RT55i’s with the Monitor 70’s and then move the RT55i’s to the Back Surround Left and Right channels. Then I started wondering if I should only put them as the side surrounds left and right speakers. Then my head started to hurt and I decided I would ask the opinion of you guys. Where does the bulk of the rear sound come from? Is it the side surround or the rear surround channels and which would be better suited for the larger RT55i’s. My thinking is to push the f/x300i’s a bit further forward closer to the halfway point of the room as they are mounted on the wall and wouldn’t be that big of a deal to fish the wire a little few studs forward and use the RT55i’s as the rear fill.

Just so you know I was perfectly happy with my sound until I went and watched Star Trek at the IMAX Theater. It wasn’t real IMAX screen wise, but there audio was AWESOME and when I got home I just got more and more depressed. My next (and final no matter what) step is to upgrade to my receiver to the Onkyo 907 (145ish watts) when it comes out or possibly even the 876 (140 watts) because I feel like I have to push the 605 (90 watts) so hard just to get anything decent out of it. I usually end up watching movies and television at about 65 when max is 80. I’m just trying to keep it simple and don’t want to leap into separate amps and whatnots. Then I’ll just be content with trying to blow up what I’ve got :cool:

Thanks again,
Jeff

cnh

Welcome to club Polk...the bulk of the rear surround sound comes from the surrounds on either side of you NOT the surround BACK!

I've had M70s and an Onkyo 605 and I know what you mean. I now run the Ms off an Adcom 200 watt amp....the difference is pretty impressive.

They also sound much better but not quite as good with the 130 Watts from the Onkyo 805.

So that's a good move...plus you have pre-outs for even more amplification. The M70s are good to 275 watts each!

cnh

apphd

Billz, welcome to CP. IMHO the side surrounds carry much more material than the rear speakers. True 7.1 sound tracks are growing, but limited in number. Although matrixing a 5.1 to the rear is very impressive for many, YMMV. How big is your room, many here comment on poor sound from a 7.1 set up when you can not get the rear speakers far enough behind your seating. I only run 5.1 so I can't give my own impressions. I think I would keep the f/x300 for sides and put the Rt55's in the rear. Keep it like that for a while then swap them around and see what you like the best. Then decide if you want to move the sides up more to the front, depending on your seating I don't think I would want to get them to far forward.

Also not familiar with the Onk 605, but a 65 out of a max of 80 sounds like it could be as far or over where I would want to push the amp, especially after you add the M70 and start running 7.1
So I would say yes to a higher output AVR soon.

3DollaBillz

Let me first appolgize for my lack of Paint skills. this is what I currently have going on in the room. The wife was not into the theater seating and this was the best compromise I could reach with her. My head is about 14' back from the screen when I am in my special place.



So based off of the new and HIGHLY detailed information :rolleyes: , please feel free to voice any and all ideas/opinions. Thanks! Jeff

cnh

I'd pull your surrounds back a bit and a lot less toe in on those if that's an accurate drawing. Could also have less toe in on the fronts--too small a sweet spot.

Plus, you have your sub in a closet?? How does that sound?

cnh

apphd

Unless you have a dedicated HT or 2 ch room, most all of us are faced with compromises. WAF, or just room shape and size, :mad:
Scale is hard to judge, from your sketch but I think if you can get it past the wife, maybe cheat the ottoman and sectional up just a little and like I said earlier try the surrounds at the current location then maybe up forward a little before I reran the in wall wiring. You would want to get the rear speakers about >=3 feet behind you, but it looks like you have the room. Looking at the layout I think I would change my original thoughts and try the f/x's at the rear and 55's at the sides first. Experiment, experiment experiment. I think getting the sub out of the closet would give you the best improvement, but probably the hardest thing to get past the wife.

Rocco1

APPHD is right the sub needs to come out #1.
I cant imagine the sub being in a closet is a good thing.

3DollaBillz

cnh wrote: »

you have your sub in a closet?? How does that sound?
cnh

Not perfect by any means, but it properly shakes the room. I have been thinking of turning it down and pulling it out of the closet all together, maybe pushing the treadmill to the other wall and putting it in its place. The surround triangles are not toed at all...

Where to put the RT55i's is the question.

Feel free to doctor the image and plop the RT55i's in the room somewhere.

I guess this is what I had in mind without getting midevil and removing the closet, Monitor 70's are going up front no matter what, but where to put the RT55i's?
Option A: In back...


OR

Option B, put the RT55's on the side and put the f/x300i's in the back.


Obviously I would move things around a little to make it work but this is the general idea.
Also, I wanted to thank you for everything so far, it is very much appreciated.

3DollaBillz

apphd wrote: »

Unless you have a dedicated HT or 2 ch room, most all of us are faced with compromises. WAF, or just room shape and size, :mad:
Scale is hard to judge, from your sketch but I think if you can get it past the wife, maybe cheat the ottoman and sectional up just a little and like I said earlier try the surrounds at the current location then maybe up forward a little before I reran the in wall wiring. You would want to get the rear speakers about >=3 feet behind you, but it looks like you have the room. Looking at the layout I think I would change my original thoughts and try the f/x's at the rear and 55's at the sides first. Experiment, experiment experiment. I think getting the sub out of the closet would give you the best improvement, but probably the hardest thing to get past the wife.

When you say cheat it up, you are talking about moving it forward a foot right? I think I can swing that because 99% of the time it is just us anyway and at the end of the day I only want to impress myself.

Rocco1 wrote: »

APPHD is right the sub needs to come out #1.
I cant imagine the sub being in a closet is a good thing.

The more I think about it, the more I am going to make this happen tonight. Operation "subout" will be a go.

If I could ditch the closet and treadmill I would be in business! I'll see if she wants to give up 1 of the spare bedrooms and turn it into a gym

cnh

3DollaBillz wrote: »

Not perfect by any means, but it properly shakes the room. I have been thinking of turning it down and pulling it out of the closet all together, maybe pushing the treadmill to the other wall and putting it in its place. The surround triangles are not toed at all...

Where to put the RT55i's is the question.

Feel free to doctor the image and plop the RT55i's in the room somewhere.

I guess this is what I had in mind without getting midevil and removing the closet, Monitor 70's are going up front no matter what, but where to put the RT55i's?
Option A: In back...


OR

Option B, put the RT55's on the side and put the f/x300i's in the back.


Obviously I would move things around a little to make it work but this is the general idea.
Also, I wanted to thank you for everything so far, it is very much appreciated.

The 55s are way too forward in the second pic! But they are pointed in the right direction in that pic. What you need to do is get them a bit behind the end of your sectional like the first pic...but facing the same direction as in your second pic. The 55s would be your SURROUNDS in a 5.1!

To sum up PICTURE NUMBER ONE....with 55s speakers facing the listener slightly behind him/her, almost no toe in.
cnh

3DollaBillz

So I could split the difference as a good starting point?

cnh

It's a bad idea to have surrounds in front of ANY listener! At best you could have them on either side of the farthest back seat, but a bit behind that is ideal!

cnh

3DollaBillz

With that said, I give you Option C. Moved the sectional up a bit and pulled the side surrounds back. Granted this is just a jumping off point for testing, but the closer I can get to start, the better I'll be at the end. Thats what I'm going with anyways....

Those poor people up front will just have to suffer a bit.

apphd

I think C looks pretty good (esp. with the sub) again scale is hard to judge but I think C has them pretty close to the original location, but with the sectional up, a little (about 1' I think you said earlier). I think this would be a good starting point.

cnh

I agree...C looks pretty good. Now you need to listen to that to see if, in fact, it sounds 'good'.

cnh

3DollaBillz

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate the advice. I'll be sure to let know how it works.

dpowell

Polk recommends that you put rear speaks at 6' off the ground which might help you offset directional issues caused by less than perfect speaker placement options. Welcome to CP!

sandworms

oops, tried to say the 605 has no preouts but realized you meant the 8** series

Conradicles

C looks good. Try the sub in a few different spots if you can.

You will be amazed at the difference location can make for a sub.

apphd

Maybe this will help also. Remember this is Dolby's recommended starting point.
THX, DTS, some speaker manufactures may have different suggested starting points. But these are all just to get you started. Your room, equipment and tastes will be the final solution.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/speaker-setup-guide/index.html

3DollaBillz

Thanks for the link apphd! I will check it out once I post this. So after much thought about removing the closet and trying to come up with a theme for redoing the room completely (never could) it hit me that the biggest problem was the sectional so......I give you Option D! AKA the newly finished current layout. The rear surrounds are located in the closet...dont worry they are on the floor not hooked up

The sub came out of the closet and is now FABULOUS!! :eek: well it sounds a lot better and I was able to turn it down so it doesnt clip on the REALLY big booms.

I still need ideas on the rear surrounds if you dont mind. I was thinking about putting one behind the right seat of the sofa on the wall right on the other side of the AV Equipment and the other behind the sub because there is a double window where the treadmill is. Sorry I failed to include that on the earlier illustrations but the window only leaves about a foot on each side of the little jut out. If thats a word Anyway I marked where I was thinking with red dots. Any suggestions?

Oh, 1 last thing. I'm going to build a quick platform for the rear loveseat so the guests dont have to look at the back of my head as much!

Rocco1

In my recomendation you do not want those speakers on different plains like that in the rear.

Ideally you would want them both at the same depth and have the rear seating included in that equation.

Congrats on getting the sub out!

3DollaBillz

Thanks! For the moment I I'm just going to stick with 5.1. Can I mount the FX's on the ceiling at equal distances? Just a thought...